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IAJO
170 posts
27 months
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Is the BRZ/GT86 a hot hatch rival? They are similar on price point but thats about it, one is a fwd turbo charged family hatchback and the other a 2+2 rwd na coupe. The fact a turbo charged 260bhp megane will be quicker than a na 200bhp brz/86 shouldnt be a suprise to anyone. An st with a remap will be even quicker again and many remapped diesels will be that fast and faster. Stats will not sell the BRZ/GT86 only possibly the drive and looks which some will prefer and others won't. It doesnt have to be rwd vs fwd as you could pitch the gt86 against the bmw 123d or the 130 etc...
It isn't the second coming! The excitement here is a rwd coupe being manufactured that looks affordable to run, for those who cant live with the fuel economy of 370z or an rx8. It is also a change in direction from toyota a name now synonamous with boredom when once they offered an exciting sports/gt range. Add to that a rwd platform for subaru to work with and after some development time a turbo charged rwd drive car from the company that brought you the impreza.
There is no downside to this car as its offering choice in a segment pretty devoid of it hence why car mags dont know if they should be tested against mental turbo nutter hot hatches or caymans and 370's, maybe the mx5. Hopefully there is a market for these and hopefully they arent the only entry into that market.
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EDLT
14,583 posts
75 months
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braddo said: EDLT said: No, it is stupid because it is a sweeping statement made with no intention of following through. Say you wanted an MPV, a small van or a city car would you really stick to the "No FWD" rule? Or the statement is made in the context of performance/fun cars? If they meant that then they would say "I would never buy a FWD sports/performance/fun car" or something similar.
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nottyash
3,704 posts
64 months
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busmonk said: nottyash said: Ive got a Legacy B4 saloon and a Honda S2000 "Sports car". If I want to get somewhere fast I would take the Legacy. Yeah but, that's probably because your using warp mode on secondary phase  Yeh, but cant help it 
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otolith
19,408 posts
73 months
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So those people who aren't bored of hot hatches can continue buying them, and those who are have a new option which won't cost a fortune in tax and fuel. Everybody wins.
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MiseryStreak
758 posts
76 months
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otolith said: So those people who aren't bored of hot hatches can continue buying them, and those who are have a new option which won't cost a fortune in tax and fuel. Everybody wins. Except the future owners of the GT-86/BRZ, who will be left with a car that cost at least £25K, is relatively impractical, and (all according to evo) has an engine sound that is described as 'teeth gnashingly awful', feels gutless in acceleration, doesn't handle as nicely as an MX-5, and is woefully slow and unrewarding on track. Shame.
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bicycleshorts
1,562 posts
30 months
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MiseryStreak said: Except the future owners of the GT-86/BRZ, who will be left with a car that cost at least £25K, is relatively impractical, and (all according to evo) has an engine sound that is described as 'teeth gnashingly awful', feels gutless in acceleration, doesn't handle as nicely as an MX-5, and is woefully slow and unrewarding on track. Shame. They hated it so much they originally gave it 5 stars... http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/2760...(Discussion and scan of article here: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51... )
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Johnboy Mac
2,666 posts
47 months
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StormLoaded said: Johnboy Mac said: Congrats. May I ask why the 86 over the BRZ, any particular reason? a number of reasons i guess, although there is no doubt the subaru badge is the cool one. nostalgia - my earliest memory of a fast/fun car journey was with my dad test driving the original AE86 .. not sure who had the biggest grin out of us after that!.. looking forward to throwing him the key(less fob) to have a go at its spiritual successor. Ive been tracking this cars development for years and its never crossed my mind to buy anything other than the new hachi roku .. aethetically - i prefer the GT front end over the "pug" style BRZ front end and likewise inside i really dont like the slab of silver plastic in the BRZ (GT has the T logo "carbon look" black plastic.. ok its still plastic but at least its not silver) long term - 5 years warranty from Toyota, if i decide to change it after 2 or 3 years i'd hope the long warranty may assist in holding a bit more of its value. (im not sure if subaru are matching the 5 years?) and if i decide to keep it, i'd certainly be looking to improve performance anyway (if not sooner), and Toyota have already said they are looking to supercharge it (vs turbo from Subaru) the GT which i prefer the thought of for this car, and all parts (TRD) will be offered retrospectively and will not void the warranty.. so ideal for the first adopters, so to speak - although no doubt subaru will offer the same with their turbo conversion. however the main reason.. SWMBO, works for Mr T, and would probably chop my b***lox off if i didnt buy from her .. With SWMBO's help no doubt you'll be one of the early owners, if so would be interesting to hear your views and comments when you the time comes. Like the idea of a retro fit S/charger.
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braddo
2,992 posts
57 months
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MiseryStreak said: Except the future owners of the GT-86/BRZ, who will be left with a car that cost at least £25K, is relatively impractical, and (all according to evo) has an engine sound that is described as 'teeth gnashingly awful', feels gutless in acceleration, doesn't handle as nicely as an MX-5, and is woefully slow and unrewarding on track. Shame. And all those things have prevented anybody buying basic TTs, Sciroccos and 1-Series coupes, have they? 
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StormLoaded
846 posts
48 months
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Johnboy Mac said: With SWMBO's help no doubt you'll be one of the early owners, if so would be interesting to here your views and comments when you the time comes. Like the idea of a retro fit S/charger. yeah ive had my order in since December (and quite a few others too), hoping to get one of the first. SWMBO will get to drive an 86 way before i get mine tho.. which really sucks!.. toyota are holding an internal launch/drive day at Donington Park in the next few weeks (normally they go to millbrook but its been switched to a proper race circuit for the GT86). it's almost tempting to don some lippy and try blag i'm Mrs SL
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Johnboy Mac
2,666 posts
47 months
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StormLoaded said: Johnboy Mac said: With SWMBO's help no doubt you'll be one of the early owners, if so would be interesting to hear your views and comments when you the time comes. Like the idea of a retro fit S/charger. yeah ive had my order in since December (and quite a few others too), hoping to get one of the first. SWMBO will get to drive an 86 way before i get mine tho.. which really sucks!.. toyota are holding an internal launch/drive day at Donington Park in the next few weeks (normally they go to millbrook but its been switched to a proper race circuit for the GT86). it's almost tempting to don some lippy and try blag i'm Mrs SL Fook that does suck a bit. Hope you're not looking for detailed feedback! 
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cmoose
18,663 posts
98 months
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MiseryStreak said: Except the future owners of the GT-86/BRZ, who will be left with a car that cost at least £25K, is relatively impractical, and (all according to evo) has an engine sound that is described as 'teeth gnashingly awful', feels gutless in acceleration, doesn't handle as nicely as an MX-5, and is woefully slow and unrewarding on track. Shame. My feeling is that Evo will be proven to have messed up there. So much weight of opinion against them on this. Not entirely their fault, but I think the auto box scuppered the whole endeavour.
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otolith
19,408 posts
73 months
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In magazines for grown-ups, it is accepted that there is a plurality of opinions on anything as subjective as which car is best of a group. Evo's review prefers an ordinary family car with a big engine. Personally, I wouldn't be interested in owning that, but each to their own.
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cmoose
18,663 posts
98 months
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otolith said: In magazines for grown-ups, it is accepted that there is a plurality of opinions on anything as subjective as which car is best of a group. Evo's review prefers an ordinary family car with a big engine. Personally, I wouldn't be interested in owning that, but each to their own. Well, I'll bet one thing. 10 years from now, it wouldn't surprise me to find Evo staffers owning used Toyobarus privately. Can't say the same for the Megane. Suspect they'll learn to regret this one. How well would the other cars have done in this test if they'd had torque convert gearboxes - a Megane 265 Cup with a Torque converter box, and in its first major group test and first drive on public roads? Not very well, I suspect.
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XitUp
7,690 posts
73 months
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NISR227 said: Does it really matter what drivetrain the car has when it comes to 'fun'? its all subjective, on the road, where oversteer antics can not be used without mr plod showing an interest, its what put a smile on your face that counts. On the track, where u can spend most of the time sideways in something like an mx5, well I admit that's different. Are you really saying that people only prefer rwd because you can get power oversteer? If so, that's total arse. p.s. this is in no way saying that I don't like fwd, before I get accused of that. There are a lot of very good fwd cars...it's just that any rwd will be better
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Colonial
9,812 posts
74 months
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XitUp said: Are you really saying that people only prefer rwd because you can get power oversteer? If so, that's total arse. p.s. this is in no way saying that I don't like fwd, before I get accused of that. There are a lot of very good fwd cars...it's just that any rwd will be better Hideous Ssangyong.JPG
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XitUp
7,690 posts
73 months
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Can't believe google doesn't have a pic of it powersliding.
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cmoose
18,663 posts
98 months
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XitUp said: Can't believe google doesn't have a pic of it powersliding.  A google image, yesterday
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Baryonyx
6,882 posts
28 months
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cmoose said: Kind of amazed that Evo was allowed to end up with the auto model. Serious mistake from a PR perspective, if you ask me. Indeed, EVO have been selling 'imagine' for far longer than Audi have, and they could probably have bolstered sales of this car in the UK by giving it a good write up. The RWD crowd tend to fall for that sort of thing, often being sold cars based on the glamorous write up and the dreams they have of gracefully pointing them between corners on sunny, empty B roads. The reality is that the AWD rally rep is usually faster and now the FWD hot hatch is either just as fast, or faster, is not one they would like to contemplate. Were I living in Spain or Germany, RWD may seem like the ideal thing for me. In the UK, our over-policed, pothole ridden roads are terrible places to drive RWD cars. And I do like RWD cars, having had two recently and owned RWD, FWD and AWD cars in the last year. On our roads you can have just as much fun in a hot hatch, and you will cetainly be quicker and safer in the more predictable AWD and FWD cars. On the track, where RWD may seem like the ideal configuration I'd go for something more fun/powerful than the BRZ like another MR2 Turbo or an old M3.
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XitUp
7,690 posts
73 months
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cmoose said: XitUp said: Can't believe google doesn't have a pic of it powersliding. A google image, yesterday Sorry, I meant the Rodius.
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cmoose
18,663 posts
98 months
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Baryonyx said: Indeed, EVO have been selling 'imagine' for far longer than Audi have, and they could probably have bolstered sales of this car in the UK by giving it a good write up. The RWD crowd tend to fall for that sort of thing, often being sold cars based on the glamorous write up and the dreams they have of gracefully pointing them between corners on sunny, empty B roads.
The reality is that the AWD rally rep is usually faster and now the FWD hot hatch is either just as fast, or faster, is not one they would like to contemplate. Were I living in Spain or Germany, RWD may seem like the ideal thing for me. In the UK, our over-policed, pothole ridden roads are terrible places to drive RWD cars. And I do like RWD cars, having had two recently and owned RWD, FWD and AWD cars in the last year.
On our roads you can have just as much fun in a hot hatch, and you will cetainly be quicker and safer in the more predictable AWD and FWD cars. On the track, where RWD may seem like the ideal configuration I'd go for something more fun/powerful than the BRZ like another MR2 Turbo or an old M3. Hmmm, you seem to assume quicker is more fun. Not in my experience. Moreover, I'd say your point re the UK has it backwards. More and more, speed is being penalised. What we need in the UK is cars that are fun at lower speeds. Regardless of this Evo review, the Toyobaru remains the car I am most excited about driving this year. It would take a new Porsche GT3 to trump it. Anything else from a remotely mainstream manufacturer would be further down the list. The original E30 M3 has very similar power and weight to the Toyobaru, and that's an all time great. But could you imagine how terrible a an E30 M3 would be with a torque-convert auto box? I don't think you can overstate how negative an impact having the wrong gearbox can make on a car like this.
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