|
RichTBiscuit
Original Poster
399 posts
20 months
|
Chrisw666 said: Full service history = Record of every service that has been carried out.
Serviced according to manufacturers guidance and maintained to the highest standard backed up by itemised invoices = What people want to see and often assume from the acronym FSH.
Some of the best cars I have owned have either had no history, or a service book that is patchy but a raft of receipts detailing what has been done when. Definitely slippery. I'll watch out for this one.....
|
|
|
Baryonyx
6,873 posts
28 months
|
RichTBiscuit said: I've seen a couple of Cars advertised like this recently. Is it always the case they have major defects, or could the dealer use this line for a non-suspicious reason? I'm assuming sometimes a dealer just wants rid of some PX's because they don't fit with their normal stock. If it's just PX to clear but they're backing it as a decent car that doesn't fit with their stock, fair enough. You sometimes see this when a prestige car dealer takes something tidy but downmarket in as PX and wants to shift it quickly before auctioning it. Usually, it seems to be used to get around selling something defective. When I'm at work I'm often out in the car with a little downtime so I'll drop by the local garages and see whats for sale. A typical conversation at a less salubrious establishment might go like: "Nice Clio 182, when did that come in?" "Got it in last week in part ex." "Looks nice, how many miles has it done?" "About 70,000 with full service history" "Nice, seems like a good deal" "Yeah, it's not a bad little car. One of the brakelights is out and one of the wheels has a rumble, probably just a bearing needs changed. Front tyres could do with a refresh (translation: they're as bald as f  k). It's in part ex to clear, no warranty or nowt, but it's a nice little runner that just needs a couple of things doing". So basically it's in a bit of a state already and the things that they know are wrong with it they're not going to fix. There will undoubtedly be issues with it that they don't know about and when something else goes wrong a week after someone's bought it they'll have washed their hands of it, saying "you bought it as part ex to clear. It's up to you to check the car before you buy it" Not just that, but they're happy to sell cars that aren't even roadworthy (as was the case when I went to look at that 7 Series. Dealer lied about the service history and condition, it had a bad engine oil leak he hadn't told me about and every light on the vehicle was defective...!)
|
|
|
Twincam16
27,229 posts
127 months
|
Could be worse - I went to have a look at an Alfa recently that apparently had 'FSH inc. cambelt change'.
I looked at the service history. It went up to around 60,000 miles. In one of the servicing sheets, against a tick-box with the words 'Cam-belt change', the mechanic had written 'N/A'.
The salesman tried to argue that it was an acknowledgement that the cambelt was OK.
I switched on the engine. The mileage on the counter was over 90,000.
|
|
|
RichTBiscuit
Original Poster
399 posts
20 months
|
|
|
hornetrider
40,796 posts
74 months
|
RichTBiscuit said: HornetRider - I notice you have a e38 728i in your profile - How do you find the e38, and do you find the 2.8 underpowered?
Your car matches what i'm looking for.... Interesting - I'm looking to move it on for an E39 Touring... pm me 
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
E38Ross
10,512 posts
81 months
|
RichTBiscuit said: hornetrider said: It does - BMWs are condition based servicing, not every 10k. In fact I'm sure pretty much no BM serviced according to normal guidelines will be every 10k. HornetRider - I notice you have a e38 728i in your profile - How do you find the e38, and do you find the 2.8 underpowered? Your car matches what i'm looking for.... that's ironic, as he's looking at selling  the 728i is not "fast" but once up to speed it's quicker than you'd expect, will pootle around town or cruise at 3000rpm at 100mph all day long. economy around town is poor but rather decent on a long run. depending on how i'm feeling if i cruise at around 75 i find it'll get around 35mpg, give or take. ps - i know i'm not hornetrider
|
|
|
thinfourth2
23,582 posts
73 months
|
E38Ross said: that's ironic, as he's looking at selling the 728i is not "fast" but once up to speed it's quicker than you'd expect, will pootle around town or cruise at 3000rpm at 100mph all day long. economy around town is poor but rather decent on a long run. depending on how i'm feeling if i cruise at around 75 i find it'll get around 35mpg, give or take. ps - i know i'm not hornetrider It doesn't need to be fast Its like a train The front arrives a good 5 minutes before the back of the car
|
|
|
Baryonyx
6,873 posts
28 months
|
RichTBiscuit said: HornetRider - I notice you have a e38 728i in your profile - How do you find the e38, and do you find the 2.8 underpowered?
Your car matches what i'm looking for.... I've always found them a bit sluggish off the line but reasonable once they're up to speed. They're not an overtaking monster and they don't offer sporty thrills but that it now what they're about. However, with the wind at your back you'll easily have enough punch to pass HGV's in lane 2.
|
|
|
hman
4,810 posts
63 months
|
Baryonyx said: It's a common car dealer con. I went to see a 7 series last year with 138,000 miles on the clock. It hadn't been serviced since 118,000 miles. There were some big gaps before that too, and the last time it mentioned whether it had had Inspection 1 and 2's carried out was with the original owner, who sold the car at about 50,000 miles!
I'd never have expected to see a full history on a 138,000 car - to be fair its had enough owners normally by then for at least one to have forgotten to get the book stamped or even for the book to have been lost. So long as you are competent at car buying and theres a dealer then if theres a problem you will get it fixed under a short warranty from the dealer. If you wanted a car to which full history ACTUALLY MEANT ANYTHING then you would buy a newer lower mileage car with some re-sale left in it- no?
|
|
|
E38Ross
10,512 posts
81 months
|
hman said: I'd never have expected to see a full history on a 138,000 car - to be fair its had enough owners normally by then for at least one to have forgotten to get the book stamped or even for the book to have been lost.
So long as you are competent at car buying and theres a dealer then if theres a problem you will get it fixed under a short warranty from the dealer.
If you wanted a car to which full history ACTUALLY MEANT ANYTHING then you would buy a newer lower mileage car with some re-sale left in it- no? i bought my car with 115k on it and it had a full service history and done according to the manufacturers guidelines. a friend of mine has an E34 535i, now with 242k on the clock, also FSH and done according to the book. they are out there.
|
|
|
Chrisw666
20,868 posts
68 months
|
pilchardthecat said: Oooh, that's a bit slippery, and I dont think all dealers stick to your first definition.
Certainly the main dealers i've dealt with mean "full service history according to the manufacturers recommended schedule" when they put FSH That isn't fact just opinion. But a cynical view of cars for sale tells me the former is used by private sellers and less reputable traders. The latter is what good dealers mean by FSH.
|
|
|
confused_buyer
1,875 posts
50 months
|
I really don't think the odd variant in servicing on an old 7-Series is very relevant. It is how it now which is important - it it's got 120k a missed service between 60k & 80k isn't going to stop it wobbling or not or whether petrol is pouring out of a rusty fuel tank.
Obviously a reasonable history is good to see but getting all paranoid about a few miles here and there is not the way to approach what could have a wonderful history but still be a wreck which won't go backwards up hills due to a knackered gearbox.
I also don't out much store by Inspection 1 & 2's - all they mainly are are an extra check list, it doesn't mean anything was actually done.
Also - why would a 7-Series have 10k between services unless it had been ragged or done only town work?
|
|
|
Baryonyx
6,873 posts
28 months
|
hman said: I'd never have expected to see a full history on a 138,000 car - to be fair its had enough owners normally by then for at least one to have forgotten to get the book stamped or even for the book to have been lost.
If you wanted a car to which full history ACTUALLY MEANT ANYTHING then you would buy a newer lower mileage car with some re-sale left in it- no? This was a three owner car, unmodified and advertised as having FSH. I rang the dealer before going to see the car and asked what the history entailed, knowing BMW have the Inspection 1/2 schedule. The dealer told me the car had a fully stamped booked with service intervals at or below the recommended mileage or dates. It had come to them when a customer traded it in for a new Audi (apparently). Sadly, I was looking at E38 owners through rose tinted glasses and seeing only the older gentleman who cruise about in them, rather than the low end pimps and wannabe gangsters. And when I look for service history, I expect it to 'ACTUALLY MEAN' something, hence why I rang the dealer and asked for a talk through of the car and the history. I have seen and driven plenty of cars with over 100,000 miles on the clock with fabulous service history and an enthusiast owner will value that. I am not above buying a good car at the bottom of it's depreciation cycle, as long as I can verify it's a good car. The fact that old E38's are still popular and well spoken of is testament to the fact that if you get a good one, it's a great car. On this occasion, the dealer was economical with the truth in some places and just lied to me in others. With the benefit of hindsight, I would never travel that far to see a car again, nor would I expect a non-franchised dealer to tell the truth over the phone. I think the dealer thought because I was travelling to see the car I would just buy any old tat for the sake of getting home. I got stung for another train ticket but I am glad that shed of a 7 series didn't make the trip back with me.
|
|
|
Dodsy
5,537 posts
96 months
|
Its the dodgy ones that do have a full history you have to watch out for. I've been looking at Jags recently and have seen 2 with FSH, stamped up to date, both had a recent service in the book and full history.
One had coolant level below min and oil like sludge. The other had front brake disks that were almost transparent. So one had been stamped but no work done, the other looked like it had been given a minimum service but the brakes ignored. You then have to wonder what else has been ignored (no sign of receipts for the services to show what had been done). Shame really as both were nice motors in otherwise good condition.
|
|
|
98elise
3,171 posts
30 months
|
I went to look at an MX5 at a dealers a couple of weeks, he confirmed it was fsh, and that it had done hardly any miles since the last service.
Turns out that means not serviced for 2 years, and 3k over based on miles alone.
That plus 4 chinese ditch finders had me heading for the door
|
|
|
Dodsy
5,537 posts
96 months
|
98elise said: That plus 4 chinese ditch finders had me heading for the door My pet hate this - I saw a Jag the other day, brand new front tyres, some unbranded crap. Means I have to budget ~£400 for a pair of tyres to replace them. Dealer just didnt understand 'but its got new tyres on already....' ffs
|
|
|
pilchardthecat
5,921 posts
48 months
|
Chrisw666 said: pilchardthecat said: Oooh, that's a bit slippery, and I dont think all dealers stick to your first definition.
Certainly the main dealers i've dealt with mean "full service history according to the manufacturers recommended schedule" when they put FSH That isn't fact just opinion. But a cynical view of cars for sale tells me the former is used by private sellers and less reputable traders. The latter is what good dealers mean by FSH. Most main dealers won't sell an approved used car if it hasn't been serviced according to their schedule. They can't issue warranties for example without it.
|
|
|
missing the VR6
1,476 posts
58 months
|
BMW's are on a time or distance servicing so it's quite possible that the car wasn't due a service!
|
|
|
confused_buyer
1,875 posts
50 months
|
To be brutally frank, if you put an old E38 up for sale, there is at least a 50% chance it will be purchased by someone from Eastern Europe who will chuck the MOT and service book in the bin (I actually had one do this last year) as they leave and only intend to break it for spares (to keep some LHD examples on the road) however nice it is. The other 45% of buyers will only care about the colour and whether it has bling wheels they can put a gold coating on and won't know what a service history is. There is no excuse for lying but unless a dealer specialises in such things most would assume the above type of buyer from experience. That doesn't excuse shoddy service but is the reality of the real market for old barges, not the PH "elderly well healed gentleman" bubble of PH. 
|
|
|
crocodile tears
755 posts
15 months
|
|
