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GhostDriver
Original Poster
585 posts
61 months
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18064363So they've finally understood that putting up fuel tax is going to loose them money in the long run. Suprise Suprise...... look at the solution they are touting. The high tax on booze and smokes has made us all healthier and contribute less, maybe we should pay a gym tax every time we work out to cover that deficit? What if I decide to keep my gas guzzler because of some weird freedom of choice thing, will I be excempt from this new tax??
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5lab
1,268 posts
65 months
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'they' being the RACs policy group, and nothing to do with the government?
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Captain Muppet
5,970 posts
134 months
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link said: Forecasts from the Office for Budget Responsibility predict tax revenues from duties will fall by £13bn a year, at current prices, by 2029, as cars become electrified and more fuel-efficient. Current prices, in 2029?
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hornetrider
40,814 posts
74 months
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The f  ked up thinking is just bizarre isn't it. Problem - fuel duty revenues falling due to more efficient vehicles on the market. Solution 1. Increase fuel duty to cover this shortfall - cost to the taxpayer NIL. Solution 2. Introduce massively complex and disruptive system which will take years to implement - cost to the taxpayer f kING HUGE. s, the lot of them.
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davepoth
19,965 posts
68 months
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hornetrider said: The f ked up thinking is just bizarre isn't it. Problem - fuel duty revenues falling due to more efficient vehicles on the market. Solution 1. Increase fuel duty to cover this shortfall - cost to the taxpayer NIL. Solution 2. Introduce massively complex and disruptive system which will take years to implement - cost to the taxpayer f kING HUGE. s, the lot of them. The suggestion is of course that by 2029 we will be driving electric and range extended hybrid vehicles that will only very rarely use fuel at all, rather than being merely very efficient. It still sounds like a daft idea though.
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900T-R
18,563 posts
126 months
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The reality is that by 2030, 90+ % of the vehicle market will still be powered by ICEs. Every non-government study I am aaware of estimates the EV market share at between 3-10% by that date.
That, and actual fuel consumption is a very different animal from standardised NEDC figures. If there's any significant decline in fuel usage, it's because of less economic activity, and private motorists who simply can't afford to drive as much as they did anymore.
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GhostDriver
Original Poster
585 posts
61 months
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5lab said: 'they' being the RACs policy group, and nothing to do with the government? And you honestly think that reports like this arent put out to test public opinion for future government policy? I do remember Labour looking very seriously at this not so long ago.
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egomeister
4,057 posts
132 months
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davepoth said: The suggestion is of course that by 2029 we will be driving electric and range extended hybrid vehicles that will only very rarely use fuel at all, rather than being merely very efficient. It still sounds like a daft idea though. Exactly. Road pricing is coming whether we like it or not, and will be intrinsically linked to the adoption of electric and electric hybrid cars. Why do you think there is so much government backing for development in these areas?
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Captain Muppet
5,970 posts
134 months
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egomeister said: davepoth said: The suggestion is of course that by 2029 we will be driving electric and range extended hybrid vehicles that will only very rarely use fuel at all, rather than being merely very efficient. It still sounds like a daft idea though. Exactly. Road pricing is coming whether we like it or not, and will be intrinsically linked to the adoption of electric and electric hybrid cars. Why do you think there is so much government backing for development in these areas? You think EVs are part of a conspiracy to justify road pricing, and have nothing to do with global commitments to reduce CO2 emmisions due to the whole global warming/climate change* thing? I think you suspect the wrong consipracy for being responsible for EVs. * delete to suit current data
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T0nup
457 posts
69 months
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They are and will lose a lot more than the duty on duel because are becoming more economical... The road fund licence for many small Euroboxes are what they call zero rated, and many others are rated at just £35 per year.
Once upon a time car tax was a minimum £125 regardless of the cars CO2 emmisions.
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jagnet
1,004 posts
71 months
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BBC said: Fuel and Vehicle Excise duties raise about £38bn a year but are set to fall.
Forecasts from the Office for Budget Responsibility predict tax revenues from duties will fall by £13bn a year, at current prices, by 2029 So within 3 years tax revenue from duties will raise -£1bn? Does that mean we'll be subsidised 
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12gauge
1,274 posts
43 months
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Shocker as tory govt who want to appear prudent but don't have the balls to instigate any actual cuts plan sell off of state assets to give short term treasury cash boost. Its like the 80s all over again.
They riot over this sort of crap in Greece.
OK, i know labour tried the same thing. But in labours case it was an honest hatred of the private motorcar. In tories case its being too dishonest to do the right thing, declare national bankruptcy and start over.
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MadMark911
1,360 posts
18 months
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If they maintained the roads better (the one's around me now desperately need resurfacing, not more patching), I wouldn't mind paying a bit more!
However, for the government it's a double edged sword. On one hand, we as a European nation have signed up to drastic Co2 cuts and therefore they need to incentivise us to buy "greener" cars. On the other hand, they've identified that as this becomes more successful, their income stream will dwindle.
So unless they proportionately and gradually increase the road tax across every tax band (which will make them unpopular), they'll disincentivise those that have gone "green" to stay "green" (meaning that we will potentially face even more draconian penalties from the EU).
The broader question is why our taxes are still so high on Income Tax / N.I. / VAT / Council Tax etc (after some substantial, recent increases) and still going up on Fuel, Road Tax, Cigarettes etc when it would appear that we're getting less for our money, year on year?
MM.
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12gauge
1,274 posts
43 months
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MadMark911 said: The broader question is why our taxes are still so high on Income Tax / N.I. / VAT / Council Tax etc (after some substantial, recent increases) and still going up on Fuel, Road Tax, Cigarettes etc when it would appear that we're getting less for our money, year on year?
MM. Pensions is the biggie. Some councils spend more on pensions than they do on services, and we'll continue getting less year on year for about the next 30 years in that regard. Not sure how this will play out. The US seems to have a more sensible system where municipal govts can easily default and restructure their pension schemes, wiping out half or more their shortfalls. The unions have to agree or get nothing. With national bodies like UNISON holding the people to ransom in this counntry i'm not sure how we get out short of national default.
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LuS1fer
28,553 posts
114 months
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I suppose ultimately poor sods like me with a rarely used V8 will end up paying huge petrol taxes, huge VEL costs and road pricing on top. Cheers. 
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egomeister
4,057 posts
132 months
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Captain Muppet said: egomeister said: davepoth said: The suggestion is of course that by 2029 we will be driving electric and range extended hybrid vehicles that will only very rarely use fuel at all, rather than being merely very efficient. It still sounds like a daft idea though. Exactly. Road pricing is coming whether we like it or not, and will be intrinsically linked to the adoption of electric and electric hybrid cars. Why do you think there is so much government backing for development in these areas? You think EVs are part of a conspiracy to justify road pricing, and have nothing to do with global commitments to reduce CO2 emmisions due to the whole global warming/climate change* thing? I think you suspect the wrong consipracy for being responsible for EVs. * delete to suit current data No, I just said that road pricing will be linked with the adoption of EVs. Clearly the initial driver for this has been environmental. However, much of the research into battery tech and the associated energy infrastructure centres on condition monitoring and reporting. With this data already being recorded the foundation for road pricing is established without any the need for the political fight that would result if you suggested fitting black boxes to peoples cars.
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Dave Hedgehog
5,320 posts
73 months
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its purely a cash raising exercise, they can simply up the duty or whack up the road fund or put up vat to 25%
i don't know why they bother, just take 60% of everyone's salary / savings from source, save all this faffing about with 100s of different taxes
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Odie
3,675 posts
51 months
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Dave Hedgehog said: its purely a cash raising exercise, they can simply up the duty or whack up the road fund or put up vat to 25%
i don't know why they bother, just take 60% of everyone's salary / savings from source, save all this faffing about with 100s of different taxes It would have to be way more than 60% to get the current level of taxation.
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Dave Hedgehog
5,320 posts
73 months
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Odie said: Dave Hedgehog said: its purely a cash raising exercise, they can simply up the duty or whack up the road fund or put up vat to 25%
i don't know why they bother, just take 60% of everyone's salary / savings from source, save all this faffing about with 100s of different taxes It would have to be way more than 60% to get the current level of taxation. They would save Billions in revenue collection and avoidance thou
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Captain Muppet
5,970 posts
134 months
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egomeister said: Captain Muppet said: egomeister said: davepoth said: The suggestion is of course that by 2029 we will be driving electric and range extended hybrid vehicles that will only very rarely use fuel at all, rather than being merely very efficient. It still sounds like a daft idea though. Exactly. Road pricing is coming whether we like it or not, and will be intrinsically linked to the adoption of electric and electric hybrid cars. Why do you think there is so much government backing for development in these areas? You think EVs are part of a conspiracy to justify road pricing, and have nothing to do with global commitments to reduce CO2 emmisions due to the whole global warming/climate change* thing? I think you suspect the wrong consipracy for being responsible for EVs. * delete to suit current data No, I just said that road pricing will be linked with the adoption of EVs. Clearly the initial driver for this has been environmental. However, much of the research into battery tech and the associated energy infrastructure centres on condition monitoring and reporting. With this data already being recorded the foundation for road pricing is established without any the need for the political fight that would result if you suggested fitting black boxes to peoples cars. Are tracking systems already in all new EVs? If not it still won't make it any easier or more subtle to launch road pricing. Unless they just charge you for the milage you do between MOTs, which they could do with today's technology (sorry everyone if they start to do this, my bad).
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