RE: British firm launches 'innovative' EV Defender
Discussion
Genuine question in case I've missed something but the article refers to being able to "do away with drive shafts". If the Defender has live axles front and back as part of the suspension and drivetrain system with the diff and drive shafts within the axle, how do they incorporate the in wheel motors and what changes do they make to the live axles or do they just carry around redundant components? Feels like a donor car with live axles is not the best testbed to prove the weight saving benefits of in wheel motors.
RizzoTheRat said:
Several people commenting on the range, but who the hell does long journeys a Defender? I've got nothing against defenders, I learned to drive in a 110 and did a lot of miles in the 90 my father replaced it with, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a 150 mile drive!
My uncle for one. He used to drive from Oxford to Hastings on a regular basis.I always thought the original Defender was the perfect candidate for an EV restomod. They look cool and are no doubt desirable - Twisted etc have successfully been charging 6 figures for restomods and V8's for years - but no one really buys them to do long journeys as they're fairly horrible to spend a long time in. The 2.2 diesel is a deeply unpleasant unit that's going to attract a charge in any of the ULEZ zones where most of the demand for these now seems to be so EV appears to make total sense. Sitting in traffic in the city...perfect. Bimbling to the local farm shop in the Cotswolds...also perfect.
If the price of converted EV's ever becomes sensible, cars like this that have a classic status that's unrelated to the engine (e.g classic Fiat 500, perhaps?) don't need a huge range as no-one's going to do the NC500 road trip in one, but as something for the wealthy to have in the garage for occasional local fun they would be far less hassle than their ICE equivalents on the maintenance front.
I'm not for a minute suggesting that removing the engines from cars like the E Type or DB5 is a good idea though!
If the price of converted EV's ever becomes sensible, cars like this that have a classic status that's unrelated to the engine (e.g classic Fiat 500, perhaps?) don't need a huge range as no-one's going to do the NC500 road trip in one, but as something for the wealthy to have in the garage for occasional local fun they would be far less hassle than their ICE equivalents on the maintenance front.
I'm not for a minute suggesting that removing the engines from cars like the E Type or DB5 is a good idea though!
RizzoTheRat said:
Several people commenting on the range, but who the hell does long journeys a Defender? I've got nothing against defenders, I learned to drive in a 110 and did a lot of miles in the 90 my father replaced it with, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a 150 mile drive!
Long journeys in a defender? Me. Often to Greece and back in the summers. 
What does this bring to the party that ECC haven't been doing for years? Also, in wheel motors? Have they really achieved that without insane unsprung weight or is the suspension in the hub too; in which case how much suspension movement did they lose?
Edited by pheonix478 on Thursday 18th April 20:12
I used my 2016 110 daily for a couple of long journeys. It was kind of ok on the motorway in 6th gear.
It’s the noise that’s most irritating. But you can have them insulated.
The mechanical old school part of the vehicle is part of its charm. No way would I be interested in an electric Defender. Give me a good old V8 any day.
It’s the noise that’s most irritating. But you can have them insulated.
The mechanical old school part of the vehicle is part of its charm. No way would I be interested in an electric Defender. Give me a good old V8 any day.
DonkeyApple said:
The electric XJ could only have gone ahead on the back of the plan by Land Rover to offer an electric estate car. Once LR established there was no real consumer demand for that then the XJ was still born. It was always a passenger never the pilot.
Just in case anyone reads this and thinks it might be true - it isn't. Don't get me wrong, there were loads of valid reasons why X391 had to die, but that wasn't one of them 
RizzoTheRat said:
Several people commenting on the range, but who the hell does long journeys a Defender? I've got nothing against defenders, I learned to drive in a 110 and did a lot of miles in the 90 my father replaced it with, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a 150 mile drive!
What's the point in having a rugged 4x4 designed to get into the middle of nowhere if the range is only 150 miles? As an off-roader it's practically useless. As an on-roader it's pointless. 5lab said:
the reason no-one does in-wheel motors is the vast amount of unsprung weight that ruins the driving dynamics. Handily in an old landy the ride was pretty awful to start with so isn't as much of an issue.
That and the fact that the headline-grabbing ~1900lb.ft of torque is the torque-at-wheels figure, so not actually that impressive...On this IWM architecture you're binning a few boxes of cogs that do some cheap torque-multiplication for you, and replacing them with expensive boxes of spinning magnets with even more expensive boxes of 0s and 1s to control 'em. There's a reason why most passenger car EVs use a single motor/inverter/gearbox combination per axle.
samj2014 said:
What's the point in having a rugged 4x4 designed to get into the middle of nowhere if the range is only 150 miles? As an off-roader it's practically useless. As an on-roader it's pointless.
For short journeys and esatate/farmwork its probably fine, lots of detractors in this thread who its no doubt not aimed at lol.amstrange1 said:
5lab said:
the reason no-one does in-wheel motors is the vast amount of unsprung weight that ruins the driving dynamics. Handily in an old landy the ride was pretty awful to start with so isn't as much of an issue.
That and the fact that the headline-grabbing ~1900lb.ft of torque is the torque-at-wheels figure, so not actually that impressive...On this IWM architecture you're binning a few boxes of cogs that do some cheap torque-multiplication for you, and replacing them with expensive boxes of spinning magnets with even more expensive boxes of 0s and 1s to control 'em. There's a reason why most passenger car EVs use a single motor/inverter/gearbox combination per axle.
5lab said:
the reason no-one does in-wheel motors is the vast amount of unsprung weight that ruins the driving dynamics. Handily in an old landy the ride was pretty awful to start with so isn't as much of an issue.
They're also very dense if you're going to get decent power out of a relatively narrow e-machine, so are hard to effectively cool, so best used in something slow and undemanding of max power and torque.Like a Defender that'll never venture any further off road than the kerb outside the local artisan coffee shop?
I'd be interested to see how this performed over an off road course with repeated heavy demand on the motors, rather than a relatively light duty cycle of a moderate acceleration and steady state cruise. Not that it likely matters to most buyers I guess.
AMV93 said:
I always thought the original Defender was the perfect candidate for an EV restomod. They look cool and are no doubt desirable
With the way they’ve held their value, they’re also an expensive starting point for one. 5lab said:
the reason no-one does in-wheel motors is the vast amount of unsprung weight that ruins the driving dynamics. Handily in an old landy the ride was pretty awful to start with so isn't as much of an issue.
In that generation the ride is not too bad, at least compared to the old leaf sprung ones… would be more concerned about whether you can get it through even moderate depth of water. As for the “substantial, undisclosed outlay”. Do they really think people will call them without any indication whatsoever about price?
LooneyTunes said:
In that generation the ride is not too bad, at least compared to the old leaf sprung ones… would be more concerned about whether you can get it through even moderate depth of water.
...
By any modern standard the ride and handling is still absolutely terrible. It's the worst thing about them IMO. Everything else can be improved but with live axles you're fvcked on that front. It's kind of funny that they have chosen an EV solution with what I strongly suspect is the worst possible ride and handling! As for wading, it should be a sealed system and should be able to wade in any depth if you can hold your breath but I doubt it has the wheel articulation with IWM to allow it to do any serious offroading.. ...
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