Would you pay extra for a car with Hartech enginge rebuild?

Are talking about 996 or 997 here?

Of course a Gen 2 997 is relatively bulletproof when compared against a Gen 1 or a 996 but the prices are closer to £30k than £20k.

Well, I sold mine recently which was aided by the rebuild. Whether it commanded a premium is hard to tell as prices for (auto) cabs are all over the show.

If it didn't hugely change the price it certainly did make the care more "sellable" but again, it's to a small audience that know about the engine issues and are looking for that particular work to have been done.

I'd imagine it's model specific so whilst it was "useful" on my C4 Tip Cab it may well have commanded a decent percentage increase on a more sports orientated model?

Ps - hi Richard , am missing the car now and feeling frustrated with the roads over here too - hope all is well in sunny Germany!

^^This.

Although a quick google might lead mass-market buyers to discover Hartech, but this will still be the minority of buyers

The work we carried out was obviously only to the engine and not to the car itself. There are several considerations here:

When we re-build an engine and fit it to a car ourselves we obviously record it against the specific car but about half the re-builds we carry out are for other garages/members of the public who fit them themselves (as well as receiving bare cylinder blocks, heads & short motors for work). In these cases we have no proof of which particular vehicle they end up fitted to so our records are based on the facts we know which are the customer name and job number as well as the technical specifics to the job.

Secondly, as well as data protection considerations we respect customer confidentiality and will not discuss someone's private matters with all and sundry.

There are correct channels to follow and if we are asked to discuss someone's private information we need their permission.

If someone has an invoice from car documents we are happy to confirm its validity if they email it through to us (or they can read it out over the phone whilst we verify it's contents from what we can see on screen). We're also happy to confirm service book stamps etc.

This approach is professional and considerate and we try our my best to be as helpful as we can within these parameters.

If anyone would like me to verify details I suggest that you obtain a copy of the invoice and forward it to me at auto@hartech.org and I can confirm it's genuine or otherwise. If I have permission from our customer (the party we invoiced) I will happily discuss the content in detail.

If I do not have these I'm afraid I won't be able to help. If we only re-built the engine or carried out work to part of it I'm afraid we won't be able to say which car it went into (if we didn't physically fit it ourselves we cannot be 100% certain where it ended up) - this is the responsibility of the installer who should be able to confirm which vehicle they fitted it to and give details as they see fit for their part of the job. I can pad out the response to be less "curt" (and I'm sure it wasn't left at just this as it's not my style) but I'm afraid the basic response will be along the lines of "I don’t know which car it relates to I’m afraid" for the aforementioned reasons. This isn't meant to be unhelpful but is a statement of fact. It appears that you ended up with the information you needed by tallying records up so I don't really see the problem anyway.

As regards our records, each job is fully documented internally with lengthy schedules recording component conditions, vital measurements, essential work required, strong recommendations and milder recommendations made, action agreed, recommendations declined, parts fitted and work carried out (with 2 separate systems running along side each other then integrating as a fail safe) with technician details every step of the way. We re-build up to 5 engines a week and as such need and have proper systems to ensure it goes smoothly.

Yes, this is quite a verbose response but you can hopefully see another angle and reasons for our position.

All the best and enjoy your next car.

Grant

Always makes an interesting topic and I'm only glad I live close to Hartech. I probably wouldn't have a 996 if they didn't offer the cover they do as it gives me the confidence that major engine work would be covered.

I bought locally and have them do a bore inspection which turned out fine. I then got stuck in and worked through a list of the minor things they found that would prevent it from being accepted onto their lifetime scheme which you can see here: http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=87540

They then carried out the Gold service, fixed a few more things (a brake pipe, a track rod end etc.) and then accepted it on to the plan. It cost me around £1500 and labour investment in the car to sort it so I would seek to recoup that or some of it on sale.

At that point I breathed a sigh of relief and could start enjoying the car. Now if I get a major engine issue such as scoring or IMS then I know roughly the max it will cost for me to get a well sorted engine. I factored buying a cheaper car (i.e. cheaper than a 997) into my overall budget such that if I have to find day £2k for parts for an engine build I would still end up with a pretty nice car (£65K? when new!) to keep with an upgraded engine in terms of reliability.

In terms or resale then I think it just makes the buyer more confident in the first instance but could allow the seller to make the asking price a littler stronger and I also agree with the view about checking the OCD levels of the seller - I would like to think of myself as a "centre caps all the right way" sort of guy for example

In terms of work done, then it is clearly important to maintain perfect documentation and a perfect set of Hartech documentation probably can't be bettered.

Oh and yeah sorry to say that my C4 is also a Tiptronic, but that's what I wanted

Overall I feel 996s will become more desirable and their prices will start to creep up. I don't think it will be regarded as the unloved one at all. Each generation of car seems to have it's following and it definitely is a 911. I swapped out of a 993 before and the moment I drove the 996 I knew I would never go back to an earlier car.

Lee

But it wouldn't self destruct if it had had a rebuild. And, unlike a gen 2 car, it would be affordable to someone looking for a gen 1 car. Albeit with a slight premium.

Well, quite a lot less I would say judging by the figures for used cars.

Look, all I'm saying is that if you can't afford a gen2 car then you can't afford it. It doesn't matter how much good value you can get from it, that's irrelevant, because... you can't afford it.

On the other hand you most probably can afford a rebuilt gen 1 car as it's only a bit more than a normal gen 1 car and you can have peace of mind with it.

I'd definitely pay a premium for a gen 1 car. People have said that most people won't know the value of it but the fact that some do mean that those people in the know would be willing to pay more. The others would exclude themselves from the market but those who would still be interested in it would compete to buy it.

It's like saying, 'What's the point in buying a Porsche/Ferrari when most people buy Fords/Vw's'. Well, there may be only a minority of people who buy those Porsches and Ferraris but there are enough of them to make the price what it is to buy one.

I think a good extensive detailed hartech rebuild would command a reasonable premium. Nowhere near the cost of a rebuild but I would certainly pay a grand or two extra for a 997/996 with one. I think there are enough people on forums who are up on the issues to manage the premium. When a good car comes up for sale that has had a hartech rebuild it doesn't usually take long to find a new owner, also hartech themselves always seem to be able to sell pretty quickly any cars they have for sale that they have just done a rebuild to. So yes a premium, what exactly that premium is, is difficult to say!

So, bore issues on the 996.1 (3.4) - a problem or not do you think?

Wow. You seem to have got yourself very confused over some very simple concepts.

The answer to the original question 'Would you pay extra for a car with a Hartech engine rebuild' is a yes from me and many others.

If a certain amount of people are willing to pay more for something, then whether you or me like it or not, then the price of that will go up. Maybe a little or a lot depending on how many people are willing to pay more. It's just supply and demand.

We are forgetting one other factor in all this and that is the number of cars that will simply be scrapped when these big engine problems occur as the cost of fixing them will not go down but the value of the cars will. When there are fewer of these models on the road that too will have the effect on prices of these cars.

Again, we're just talking about supply and demand.

So the straight answer is yes, but it would appear not much.

The trouble is that nobody believes that the Gen 1 engines will go pop, until they do.

And then yes, it potentially writes the car off.

And then people say that they can only afford a Gen 1 ...