Tesla unlikely to Survive (Vol. 3)

Tesla unlikely to Survive (Vol. 3)

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Discussion

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

255 months

Sunday 12th December 2021
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Yeah sure.

Burwood

18,709 posts

247 months

Sunday 12th December 2021
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RobDickinson said:
Yeah sure.
You don’t think the CCP fear the populace? They absolutely do.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

255 months

Sunday 12th December 2021
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Burwood said:
You don’t think the CCP fear the populace? They absolutely do.
I dont think the world would stop buying its goods, it hasnt yet despite genocide etc, and I doubt the 'fat middle class' would say st if it happened.

hyphen

26,262 posts

91 months

Sunday 12th December 2021
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RobDickinson said:
Yeah sure.
And with a typically in-depth RobDickinson expert analysis piece, I am firmly put in my place. It is game over for me. I admit defeat frown

You are just too good Rob. A living legend.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

255 months

Sunday 12th December 2021
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Honestly your wild fantasies dont require a reasonable response.

off_again

12,371 posts

235 months

Monday 13th December 2021
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RobDickinson said:
Biden, the president of USA, ignores the worlds absolute leader in EVs and calls GM's Mary Barry the person who 'done it' and created the EV revolution.
While heaping praise on some CEO's is just political posturing, yes, Biden did exclude Tesla from the EV summit. But as with many things, its all about the context and putting some spin on the story. Musk jumped at, and reportedly enjoyed the attention, from the Trump administration and while we are unlikely to know what happened behind closed doors, we can only guess what ego stroking went on. Other manufacturers, burned in the past, know damn well to stay out of politics. So yeah, Tesla didnt get invited, but it was to be expected.

RobDickinson said:
A company that doesnt at the moment sell a single EV.
Referring to Stellantis? You do know that the group also sells Citroen, Peugeot and Vauxhall - all brands that do sell EV's, just not in the US, yet.

RobDickinson said:
A company that until November 2020 was campaigning for worse emissions laws.
Again, I am think you are referring to Stellantis again. Dodge did complain and yes, they have a nasty habit of dropping the Hellcat engine into everything they produce, but its just a company doing company things. Did Musk just try to push for the removal of all federal tax incentives? You know, because Tesla no longer qualify, so why should any one else. Its corporations doing corporate things. Sorry if that doesnt play nice, but Tesla and Musk have done EXACTLY the same thing.

RobDickinson said:
A company that literally crushed their first production EV.
Guess you watched that 'documentary' then? While the other manufacturers and the oil industry did try to reduce its opportunity to succeed, the car itself was far from anything close to a viable product. They were flawed, had serious safety issues and had no real chance of any form of commercial success. So yeah, corporate liability and the fact that VIN's are very carefully controlled and managed, most of the EV-1 models were crushed, but this was for a very good reason and those VIN's couldnt be reused or allowed to remain on the road - this is common with prototypes and experimental cars. Just a different viewpoint.

RobDickinson said:
Not only that they have excluded tesla from all these talks, Tesla dont need the subsidies but GM and Ford could do with Teslas help.

But this isnt about making more and better EVs its about cash for UAW jobs. Thats the point.
Since Biden is a Democrat and yes, supported by the unions, it seems fair that, for maximum return, it makes sense to support the unions. Again, politics at play, but what else would you expect? And of course, Tesla is notoriously anti-union, anti-regulation and has flouted environmental and workplace laws for years. And before you point fingers at the big three being bad in the past, this is true. However, Tesla has failed to address multiple violations and arent solving many of their underlying issues. Oh, and not forgetting that Tesla has taken advantage of vast amounts of federal money in the past.

Of course, I am sure you will throw back the 2008 bail-outs and loans, but that was a complete screw up by all involved and irrelevant to EV discussions. Tesla has been on an anti-union & federal loan / grant grift for years and (as everyone likes to point out) is worth more than the next 5 manufacturers added together. I dont equate the value of a company as necessarily the single indicator of success - but it does mean that Tesla is flush with money, stock and the ability to raise money, never mind mention that the CEO (not founder) is the richest man on the planet. So yeah, the rich man with his billions and a company worth a disproportionate amount of money got excluded.

And yes, its about the unions and the voters and the impact. Tesla is on the road to further success, the others less so. The EV summit was there to provide support and a careful 'kick' to the big three to make sure they keep up. Because if they didnt, it would fall to the federal and local states to pick up the pieces, something that they dont want to do.

And should we mention a wider impact? Tesla will do well this year, but Ford sold 4.2M vehicles last year! If you want to impact a market, shouldnt you focus on the biggest and most impactful? Or do we exclude the manufacturers that sell the most and focus on smallest ones? You know, because you might have a bias to them because of, reasons?

Spin this any way you like - there is always a counter and Tesla trying to play the victim isnt actually helping.

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

255 months

Monday 13th December 2021
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No not a single reference to Stellantis ...

off_again said:
And should we mention a wider impact? Tesla will do well this year, but Ford sold 4.2M vehicles last year! If you want to impact a market, shouldnt you focus on the biggest and most impactful? Or do we exclude the manufacturers that sell the most and focus on smallest ones? You know, because you might have a bias to them because of, reasons?
4.2m polluting fossil vehicles. They dont have the skills or knowledge to mass produce EVs. There is another US company that does, if asked I am sure they would help.

But that would be about actual change not shovelling money to mates.

Edited by RobDickinson on Monday 13th December 01:39

NDNDNDND

2,031 posts

184 months

Monday 13th December 2021
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Nice to see the FSD beta public trial progressing well.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TaylorOgan/status/14694...

The "not allowing driver to take over" glitch is an interesting one, and partially corroborates the crash that was reported back in November where the driver said he couldn't wrestle control from the vehicle.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopnik.com/the-firs...

Still, shares are up. Because lying about a product that doesn't work and hasn't despite years of false promises doesn't matter any more.

Heres Johnny

7,245 posts

125 months

Monday 13th December 2021
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RobDickinson said:
They dont have the skills or knowledge to mass produce EVs.
Sounds like the perfect target for subsidies to encourage them, which is, after all, the purpose of these things, to bring about change, not line the pockets of the rich.

off_again

12,371 posts

235 months

Monday 13th December 2021
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Heres Johnny said:
RobDickinson said:
They dont have the skills or knowledge to mass produce EVs.
Sounds like the perfect target for subsidies to encourage them, which is, after all, the purpose of these things, to bring about change, not line the pockets of the rich.
Exactly. Its the purpose of the government to consider all angles and introduce various carrots or sticks to guide the people, business and economy in what they consider to be the right direction.

Heres Johnny

7,245 posts

125 months

Monday 13th December 2021
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$50B fall in Tesla market cap after Musk reveals new hair cut


Burwood

18,709 posts

247 months

Monday 13th December 2021
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Nvidia appears to have a very compelling AV product. I can’t find any evidence it’s in any way inferior to Tesla. Almost all OEMs are customers. Any insight. Rob?

RobDickinson

31,343 posts

255 months

Tuesday 14th December 2021
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Its more generic as they dont write the software, it has more raw power afik but uses more watts (or it did) wont be in actual cars until 2023+ if you are comparing it to FSD HW3 which has been around a while now and will be superseded by HW4 next year.

AFIK either waymo or uber used a boot full of compute in their cars and it halved the cars range, so its really about efficiency for the in car compute power.

Most of the smarts are done back end tho I dont think nvidia is dealing with that at all?

coetzeeh

2,652 posts

237 months

Tuesday 14th December 2021
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Heres Johnny said:
$50B fall in Tesla market cap after Musk reveals new hair cut

I thought it was Kim Jong-un for a moment.

Heres Johnny

7,245 posts

125 months

Tuesday 14th December 2021
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coetzeeh said:
I thought it was Kim Jong-un for a moment.
No… he just acts like him

hyphen

26,262 posts

91 months

Tuesday 14th December 2021
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Good article, very balanced.
https://time.com/person-of-the-year-2021-elon-musk...

I assume he was supposed to have got it last year as he hasn't done anything new this year I don't think? but needed all the paedo legal stuff over with.

TameBritishMuslim

172 posts

76 months

Tuesday 14th December 2021
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In the interest of balance

Stellantis CEO says EV cost burden is 'beyond the limits' for automakers:

What has been decided is to impose on the automotive industry electrification that brings 50% additional costs against a conventional vehicle," he said.

"There is no way we can transfer 50% of additional costs to the final consumer because most parts of the middle class will not be able to pay."

"Over the next five years we have to digest 10% productivity a year ... in an industry which is used to delivering 2 to 3% productivity" improvement, he said.

"The future will tell us who is going to be able to digest this, and who will fail," Tavares said. "We are putting the industry on the limits."



TameBritishMuslim

172 posts

76 months

Tuesday 14th December 2021
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According to a whistleblower working for Porsche in Zuffenhausen, the brand is covering up major issues with the charging system in the Taycan. Some of those issues include but are not limited to vehicle, cable, or smoldering fires.

 They're only speaking out now because instead of opening up about the issue and changing the way the Taycan is produced, Porsche has decided to simply continue selling the vehicle as is.

Apparently, the issue comes down to an inexpensive onboard charger that, according to the whistleblower, cannot control the charging process properly. As a result, some battery cells charge too quickly. When that happens, the cells often overcharge and overheat and many times are disabled altogether by the system.

That ends up lowering overall range but can also result in fires if, for instance, an additional air leak occurs. According to the whistleblower, the problem affects 60% of all Taycans. 1% of those cars have apparently been damaged due to fire. These statistics are reportedly from internal Porsche documents themselves.

What might be even more shocking are allegations that Porsche is "tricking customers into thinking everything has been fixed." When a battery issue pops up, and the customer takes the Taycan in for service, the actual repair process is incredibly expensive.

Instead of actually replacing these damaged and non-functioning cells, evidently, Porsche is simply unlocking reserve cells to return the car to its normal range. While we wait for further details, it does seem that there's something Taycan owners can do.

Charge on fast chargers and nothing else if possible. The problem is only known to the whistleblower to occur when using a low AC speed charger up to 7.5 KW. We have reached out to Porsche for comment and, of course, will keep up to date with this story and report any further information.

Smiljan

10,906 posts

198 months

Tuesday 14th December 2021
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Putin and Bezos have been Time person of the year it’s not exactly a right ringing endorsement.

The magazine owner is also a Tesla investor, read into that what you will.

Anyway back to Tesla, why is the stock stting itself at the moment? Doesn’t seem to be any reason for such a big drop.

Smiljan

10,906 posts

198 months

Tuesday 14th December 2021
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hyphen said:
Good article, very balanced.
https://time.com/person-of-the-year-2021-elon-musk...

I assume he was supposed to have got it last year as he hasn't done anything new this year I don't think? but needed all the paedo legal stuff over with.
Balanced?

Time said:
The richest man in the world does not own a house and has recently been selling off his fortune. He tosses satellites into orbit and harnesses the sun; he drives a car he created that uses no gas and barely needs a driver. With a flick of his finger, the stock market soars or swoons. An army of devotees hangs on his every utterance. He dreams of Mars as he bestrides Earth, square-jawed and indomitable. Lately, Elon Musk also likes to live-tweet his poops.
Laughable