I agree with you Loon, in fact you have changed my mind so I'm guilty of enjoying your explanations of the industry as it helps me understand why I pay what I pay.

A bit of me feels for you and would like these debates to stop, but a bit also wants them to happen so I can learn more.

I used to think in similar ways to most people but your calm and well thought out explanations have changed my mind completely, the insurance world owes you in that respect.

Cheers

Maths updated as below:


There are a couple of things to consider when proposing this approach:

1. The actual cost to the individual if it went on petrol prices
2. The wider social & economic impact

1. The actual cost to the individual. Here's a bit of maths to work out what it would mean to the private individual.

There were 28.5 million cars in the UK in April 2010 according to government stats. The average insurance premium is around £921. So this means that c£26.25bn is generated in insurance premiums.

However, the industry as whole pays out £1.06 for every £1 generated in premium income. In the "Era of Austerity" the government won't want to be throwing money away, so that makes the total needed rise to £27.82billion, or £976 per car. Petrol is subject to VAT so that means it increases to £1171.52 on average.

As it's an average we have to deal with the varying mileage aspects, so the norm is 12,000 miles per year, so that's an average extra cost of 10p per mile for everyone. Or in miles per litre terms at an average 30mpg (a guess admittedly) that means an extra £0.645 per litre (or £2.92 per gallon) for all of us, as you can't have differential pricing, unless you want to push costs up even more due to the frictional admistrative costs incurred in policing this. Anyone fancy that?

So there's been a small drop this year if it had been implemented.

But does anyone fancy a 50% hike in the cost of filling up each and every time?

I'm sorry you've lost your bike mate, I bet you're kicking yourself for not repossessing it yourself now...

I say I would have gone straight down there and broken in and got it back if I had been in your position, but who knows, until it actually happens to you you'll never know.

Sorry you lost your bike but as my 8 year old tells me, you snooze you loose.. As soon as you knew where your bike was you should have been in there taking it back then sticking it back on the street informing bib it was found. you've done the what you thought was the right thing and stuck to the rules, sticking to the rules clearly doesn't work and food for thought if it happens to you again. Good luck with your insurance.

I appreciate the time in your response Loon.

I don't think all my points were put to rest, but I respect your last point and won't bother going into semantics, needless to say there's definately a lot of food for thought there.

One thing I must make clear though is, and I know you kind of touched on it, but I'm suggesting that insurance should be a tax (not added to fuel for the reasons you mention). As motor insurance companies wouldn't exist I think a lot of your points, although I'm open to having misunderstood them, become moot. But then, more importantly, my entire idea is moot in the times we live in.

Then again perhaps I'm in danger of being an arrogant socialist.

I'll stop badgering you mate.

Gauntlet thrown down.

Worth mentioning that this point to be *very* careful how much you declare the bike to be worth, even though this might be described as an 'estimate' when getting a quote. A friend got stung by estimating the value of their bike at the price paid for it, in winter for a bike that hadn't run in 2 years with no tax/mot. Fast forward to a little oopsie that wrote it off and insco refused to pay out more than the 'estimate' despite this being ~500 less than the cheapest equivalent bike (which was a dog) and ~1.5-2k less than a reasonable condition dealer example.

I thought if a biker threw a glove down he needed to buy a new one?

So if you have to take your bike into London (the City), which I was soon planning to do, what's the best options for some level of peace of mind? I assume a disc lock is simply not adequate!

No idea tbh, but see below.

My knowledge is based on stuff from 5 years ago, when I used to run a bike insurance broker, my last roles haven't had any (or in reality very little) by way of bike insurance exposure, but I'll put down some pragmatic stuff and some personal views.

Any security should be bought for you and you alone, not to reduce your premiums, those dys are long gone. Iy used to be the case that any bike valued at over £7500 had to have an alarm or the underwriters simply would not quote. That changed in 2004 when Axa entered the bike market and decided that security wasn't needed and still offered low premiums, so alarms and chains become an option.

Reality was that a large proportion of those saying they had an alarm, either didn't or had it disconnected as soon as it was fitted, so the stats became invalid anyway around theft.

The way to look at security is to see it as a way to protect your bike and your excess. Nobody wants their bike stolen and nobody wants to pay their excess, especially as they run at c£500 for anything either with fairings or of a decent value. You lose your excess as well as your bike if it's stolen. Do not look at it as a way to get a reduced insurance premium, it won't happen, as a lot of people declared the security then had their bike nicked anyway, either by the thief working around it, or by not using it in the first place.

I have all sorts of security, but nothing beats having a garage or at the worst a shed to keep it in. Even with those you should have a solid ground anchor and a decent (ideally Almax) chain. Almax because they are nigh on impossible to break without either power tools or a welding torch, which is way too much effort.

Disclocks and other chains are too easy to break / work around.

A lot of people used to have a chain that they left at thir normal parking place, but these got tampered with overnight, so that rules that out. Carrying a heavy duty chain is pretty impractical, but if you do, it has to be secured to something immovable. Wrapping it through the wheels is a waste of time, it needs to go through the swingarm or something connected permanently to the bike. Even I can whip a wheel off in under 2 minutes and then take the bike minus one wheel on a trolley.

I honestly think that the only thing possible is either not to ride into any major City (especially London), if you're going to be leaving it unattended on the street,or if you have to do it, either but a pile of st that nobody wants, or convince your employers to create a bike space or two at the office.

If someone really wants your bike, then they'll take it and there's nothing you can do ultimately.