Discussion
What a great weekend for Mav. Won both races, which is a feat in itself, and the first person (in the MotoGP era!) to win on three different manufacturers.
A great race for Acosta. I find him great fun to watch. What's good is that he's on an underdog bike - he didn't jump onto a front runner bike at the start (like Rossi), or have that and the rules changed so he'd jump straight onto a works bike (Marquez).
A curious race for Honda. I read an article showing how they were slower in 2024 than they were in 2023, yet the lap record got smashed by a number of riders on other bikes! Rins race time last year would have had him in fifth this year. Yamaha had a bit of a crap race too - Quatararo took ~41.18 to complete the race in 2023 and near 41.32 this year. Yeah, those two factoids are pretty blunt instruments but are interesting.
A great race for Acosta. I find him great fun to watch. What's good is that he's on an underdog bike - he didn't jump onto a front runner bike at the start (like Rossi), or have that and the rules changed so he'd jump straight onto a works bike (Marquez).
A curious race for Honda. I read an article showing how they were slower in 2024 than they were in 2023, yet the lap record got smashed by a number of riders on other bikes! Rins race time last year would have had him in fifth this year. Yamaha had a bit of a crap race too - Quatararo took ~41.18 to complete the race in 2023 and near 41.32 this year. Yeah, those two factoids are pretty blunt instruments but are interesting.
five50 said:
Agree - if it’s possible to categorise him, I see Acosta as closer to Rossi than Marquez - a lot seems to be cerebral rather than physical / instinctive riding talent
Just to trigger others on the thread - you see that when Acosta overtakes (clean) vs Marquez - only one guy on the track with bits hanging off his fairing before he went down…
It’s not 2015 anymore. Rossi has retired. Get over it. Just to trigger others on the thread - you see that when Acosta overtakes (clean) vs Marquez - only one guy on the track with bits hanging off his fairing before he went down…
LF5335 said:
five50 said:
Agree - if it’s possible to categorise him, I see Acosta as closer to Rossi than Marquez - a lot seems to be cerebral rather than physical / instinctive riding talent
Just to trigger others on the thread - you see that when Acosta overtakes (clean) vs Marquez - only one guy on the track with bits hanging off his fairing before he went down…
It’s not 2015 anymore. Rossi has retired. Get over it. Just to trigger others on the thread - you see that when Acosta overtakes (clean) vs Marquez - only one guy on the track with bits hanging off his fairing before he went down…
Pedro is amazing but he has done no wrong... yet ..
Maverick didn't just win both races, he set pole position, fastest lap in each race and led every lap of the Sprint. He smashed his opponents. Massimo Rivola was visibly stifling a well-deserved proud smile towards the end of Sunday's race.
If Marc has had significant problems in both races then his performances are pretty stunning, Gresini have to be feeling pretty guilty and the other Ducati riders quite concerned. After a seemingly faultless pre-season Pecco is now saying they need to get used to the new bike.
Pedro is amazing but he does have a problem: his results are a product of being just so damn fast. I've watched (almost) every GP race of his and he's never astonished me in the manner of Marc or the Aliens. I believe there's more to come though!
If Marc has had significant problems in both races then his performances are pretty stunning, Gresini have to be feeling pretty guilty and the other Ducati riders quite concerned. After a seemingly faultless pre-season Pecco is now saying they need to get used to the new bike.
Pedro is amazing but he does have a problem: his results are a product of being just so damn fast. I've watched (almost) every GP race of his and he's never astonished me in the manner of Marc or the Aliens. I believe there's more to come though!
LF5335 said:
five50 said:
Agree - if it’s possible to categorise him, I see Acosta as closer to Rossi than Marquez - a lot seems to be cerebral rather than physical / instinctive riding talent
Just to trigger others on the thread - you see that when Acosta overtakes (clean) vs Marquez - only one guy on the track with bits hanging off his fairing before he went down…
It’s not 2015 anymore. Rossi has retired. Get over it. Just to trigger others on the thread - you see that when Acosta overtakes (clean) vs Marquez - only one guy on the track with bits hanging off his fairing before he went down…
LF5335 said:
five50 said:
Agree - if it’s possible to categorise him, I see Acosta as closer to Rossi than Marquez - a lot seems to be cerebral rather than physical / instinctive riding talent
Just to trigger others on the thread - you see that when Acosta overtakes (clean) vs Marquez - only one guy on the track with bits hanging off his fairing before he went down…
It’s not 2015 anymore. Rossi has retired. Get over it. Just to trigger others on the thread - you see that when Acosta overtakes (clean) vs Marquez - only one guy on the track with bits hanging off his fairing before he went down…
rodericb said:
A curious race for Honda. I read an article showing how they were slower in 2024 than they were in 2023, yet the lap record got smashed by a number of riders on other bikes! Rins race time last year would have had him in fifth this year.
Only 1 Honda finished on Sunday and it was 29secs slower than it was last year. They've changed from tall and short (agile) to long and low (traction/stability) yet have lost the 1 last good thing they had about the old bike apparently - interesting listening to Paddock Pass Podcast on this.They're so lost it's a real concern when they could turn it around, years/seasons away. I joke about the Qauteraro delta in pay versus delta in lap time, but for Honda they're not even in the same race currently.
At a circuit where Honda had been able to win, they were all running at the back and then fell off on Sunday.
Aprilia used to be average to poor at CoTA and MV won, AE was 7th, somewhere neither of them excel or enjoy previously.
Johno said:
rodericb said:
A curious race for Honda. I read an article showing how they were slower in 2024 than they were in 2023, yet the lap record got smashed by a number of riders on other bikes! Rins race time last year would have had him in fifth this year.
Only 1 Honda finished on Sunday and it was 29secs slower than it was last year. They've changed from tall and short (agile) to long and low (traction/stability) yet have lost the 1 last good thing they had about the old bike apparently - interesting listening to Paddock Pass Podcast on this.They're so lost it's a real concern when they could turn it around, years/seasons away. I joke about the Qauteraro delta in pay versus delta in lap time, but for Honda they're not even in the same race currently.
At a circuit where Honda had been able to win, they were all running at the back and then fell off on Sunday.
Aprilia used to be average to poor at CoTA and MV won, AE was 7th, somewhere neither of them excel or enjoy previously.
epom said:
Johno said:
rodericb said:
A curious race for Honda. I read an article showing how they were slower in 2024 than they were in 2023, yet the lap record got smashed by a number of riders on other bikes! Rins race time last year would have had him in fifth this year.
Only 1 Honda finished on Sunday and it was 29secs slower than it was last year. They've changed from tall and short (agile) to long and low (traction/stability) yet have lost the 1 last good thing they had about the old bike apparently - interesting listening to Paddock Pass Podcast on this.They're so lost it's a real concern when they could turn it around, years/seasons away. I joke about the Qauteraro delta in pay versus delta in lap time, but for Honda they're not even in the same race currently.
At a circuit where Honda had been able to win, they were all running at the back and then fell off on Sunday.
Aprilia used to be average to poor at CoTA and MV won, AE was 7th, somewhere neither of them excel or enjoy previously.
20+ years ago the idea of that happening would have been laughed at.
Thing is Honda have completely changed concept (far more than Yamaha), so it's not surprising they are nowhere.
Yamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
Yamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
Zarco said:
Thing is Honda have completely changed concept (far more than Yamaha), so it's not surprising they are nowhere.
Yamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
It sounds like they are both changing things in some desperate hope of overcoming a fundamental problem that they haven't actually identified or understood. I've been there myself and it's a one way train to head fYamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
k town. Yazza54 said:
Zarco said:
Thing is Honda have completely changed concept (far more than Yamaha), so it's not surprising they are nowhere.
Yamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
It sounds like they are both changing things in some desperate hope of overcoming a fundamental problem that they haven't actually identified or understood. I've been there myself and it's a one way train to head fYamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
k town. They will do it their way or not at all it seems.
aeropilot said:
Yazza54 said:
Zarco said:
Thing is Honda have completely changed concept (far more than Yamaha), so it's not surprising they are nowhere.
Yamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
It sounds like they are both changing things in some desperate hope of overcoming a fundamental problem that they haven't actually identified or understood. I've been there myself and it's a one way train to head fYamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
k town. They will do it their way or not at all it seems.
hiccy18 said:
Maverick didn't just win both races, he set pole position, fastest lap in each race and led every lap of the Sprint. He smashed his opponents. Massimo Rivola was visibly stifling a well-deserved proud smile towards the end of Sunday's race.
If Marc has had significant problems in both races then his performances are pretty stunning, Gresini have to be feeling pretty guilty and the other Ducati riders quite concerned. After a seemingly faultless pre-season Pecco is now saying they need to get used to the new bike.
Pedro is amazing but he does have a problem: his results are a product of being just so damn fast. I've watched (almost) every GP race of his and he's never astonished me in the manner of Marc or the Aliens. I believe there's more to come though!
It wasn’t long ago that the Ducati factory riders were saying the ‘24 bike was ‘better in every way’. Can just imagine Marquez reading that quote If Marc has had significant problems in both races then his performances are pretty stunning, Gresini have to be feeling pretty guilty and the other Ducati riders quite concerned. After a seemingly faultless pre-season Pecco is now saying they need to get used to the new bike.
Pedro is amazing but he does have a problem: his results are a product of being just so damn fast. I've watched (almost) every GP race of his and he's never astonished me in the manner of Marc or the Aliens. I believe there's more to come though!
Acosta will have issues, but for now he’s showing incredible maturity over and above pure pace. He’s making the factory guys look a bit daft tbh.
Honda are really lost. Was watching sulky pants Puig looking pensive. He needs to go, as many others already have.
Zarco said:
aeropilot said:
Yazza54 said:
Zarco said:
Thing is Honda have completely changed concept (far more than Yamaha), so it's not surprising they are nowhere.
Yamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
It sounds like they are both changing things in some desperate hope of overcoming a fundamental problem that they haven't actually identified or understood. I've been there myself and it's a one way train to head fYamaha are openly using this season as one big test session. Fabio quoted as saying he tried more different things at COTA than the whole of 2023.
Hopefully with the concessions they will close the gap for 2025.
k town. They will do it their way or not at all it seems.
aeropilot said:
The indications, and articles mid-season last, was that the Japanese way of refusing to head-hunt non-Japanese engineers from any of the European teams was massively impacting Honda's ability to play catch-up (and was a significant reason why MM bailed out).
They will do it their way or not at all it seems.
It’s a cultural thing. You’ve only got to look at Japanese porn to know that they carve their own path They will do it their way or not at all it seems.
The Japanese situation is horrific, and something that would have been thought impossible in the 80s/90s....
Im not sure either will genuinely make it back to the pinnacle now, they are so far lost in the void, its very sad to see.
Yamaha are kind of doing the right thing, but there are only so many dollars and so many staff you can obtain from Ducati to assist you.
Also, as a factory now, knowing the rules are going to change in a relatively short time, why would would commit multiiple millions to something thats worth nothing in the near future.
Im not sure either will genuinely make it back to the pinnacle now, they are so far lost in the void, its very sad to see.
Yamaha are kind of doing the right thing, but there are only so many dollars and so many staff you can obtain from Ducati to assist you.
Also, as a factory now, knowing the rules are going to change in a relatively short time, why would would commit multiiple millions to something thats worth nothing in the near future.
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