Nitrons

Author
Discussion

JamesK

2,124 posts

278 months

Saturday 14th March 2015
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Pete Mac said:
JamesK said:
I think the wisdom is (was) that Nitrons were worth the extra cash if you had it. Subjective I know.

For clarity I have Nitrons on my car but didn't fit them and haven't personally tried any other after market set ups.
Look guys, sorry for being a bit of a cynic but sometimes a bit of an urban myth grows round these issues. I've got an older set of nitrons on my 'Green Meanie' fitted by a previous owner. Are they any good? they are fine but would probably benefit from a session re-setting them up. Would I buy a set for the rebuild? I'm really not sure, I would probably follow PeteGriff's lead as I know him and he knows what he is talking about. It depends on what you are using the car for. If it's track days then i would focus on suspension, if it's road driving, not many miles per year like most of us then perhaps I would look for another option.

I also followed the thread on insurance. I insure the 'Green Meanie' on a group insurance with Admiral. 3,000 miles per year, wife as second driver, full no-claims (whatever that means these days) and it costs me approximately £155 per year. Is it better or worse than Classic Line or all the other insurers? I don't know because I've never made a claim but are Admiral going to screw me on a claim, well I hope not but then how do I know that the classic car insureres won't do the same?

Ho hum, it's all down to personal choice and gut feel at the time.

Pete
I'm not sure why you quoted me. What i said was quite clear and factually correct. It's obviously personal choice for all purchases so what's your point?


SILICONEKID345HP

14,997 posts

230 months

Saturday 14th March 2015
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The Protech's double adjustable dampers are worth looking at .



Pete Mac

755 posts

136 months

Sunday 15th March 2015
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JamesK, no intention of causing offence. I quoted you because I am the same as you, I have Nitrons fitted to my car, they are fine, I don't have anything to compare them against but if I was refitting I would definitely consider alternatives, mainly due to cost. Apologies if that was not clear. Pete

Griffalow

Original Poster:

88 posts

129 months

Monday 16th March 2015
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Thanks for the replys I have bought a set Protech's double adjustable dampers

portzi

2,296 posts

174 months

Monday 16th March 2015
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ESDavey

700 posts

218 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
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Nitrous & Polybushed at Racing Green a few years ago inc Geo - great job & very happy

PeteGriff

1,262 posts

156 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
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Griffalow said:
Thanks for the replys I have bought a set Protech's double adjustable dampers
You won't be disappointed, mine are great in the Griff. When fitted get your height set for your liking (I ended up setting 25mm from the bottom of the spring moveable plate to the edge of the aluminium body, I had a machined block that I used to 'gauge' the same gap all around). I then set the 'damping' at mid point (7 clicks back from fully clockwise), which for my road driving is satisfactory. then had a full 4 wheel geometry setup.

Enjoy!

Griffalow

Original Poster:

88 posts

129 months

Thursday 19th March 2015
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Hi Peter - thanks for your help and advice and everyone else who replied

portzi

2,296 posts

174 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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PeteGriff said:
Griffalow said:
Thanks for the replys I have bought a set Protech's double adjustable dampers
You won't be disappointed, mine are great in the Griff. When fitted get your height set for your liking (I ended up setting 25mm from the bottom of the spring moveable plate to the edge of the aluminium body, I had a machined block that I used to 'gauge' the same gap all around). I then set the 'damping' at mid point (7 clicks back from fully clockwise), which for my road driving is satisfactory. then had a full 4 wheel geometry setup.

Enjoy!
Good luck with the protechs. But l've always wondered why such big companies like nitron and Olin cannot manufacture shocks and sell them at the lower prices of;Gaz, protech, and popular TVR preferred brands. Surely the bigger companies buy the materials and other resources in bulk so they should be undercutting or at least matching them in price? And its not just a couple of hundred quid neither its anything from £500 going into the £1000's .

gacksen

680 posts

142 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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portzi said:
Good luck with the protechs. But l've always wondered why such big companies like nitron and Olin cannot manufacture shocks and sell them at the lower prices of;Gaz, protech, and popular TVR preferred brands. Surely the bigger companies buy the materials and other resources in bulk so they should be undercutting or at least matching them in price? And its not just a couple of hundred quid neither its anything from £500 going into the £1000's .
have thrown out the nitrons on my chim as dampers had been defect and replaced them with GGP. of course there had been a difference but it was not night and day....

GlynMo

1,140 posts

248 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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portzi said:
Good luck with the protechs. But l've always wondered why such big companies like nitron and Olin cannot manufacture shocks and sell them at the lower prices of;Gaz, protech, and popular TVR preferred brands. Surely the bigger companies buy the materials and other resources in bulk so they should be undercutting or at least matching them in price? And its not just a couple of hundred quid neither its anything from £500 going into the £1000's .
Your question is a bit like asking why don't AM V8 Vantages cost the same as an MX5! I suspect that quality of materials is a lot to do with it, plus the cost of R&D for very limited production runs. You can't buy TVR-specific shockers from Ohlins off the shelf, they are produced to order, which will also add to the cost.

At the end of the day, if you want the best, you always pay for it - even if perception plays a part in what you view as the best.

phazed

21,844 posts

203 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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GlynMo said:
Your question is a bit like asking why don't AM V8 Vantages cost the same as an MX5! I suspect that quality of materials is a lot to do with it, plus the cost of R&D for very limited production runs. You can't buy TVR-specific shockers from Ohlins off the shelf, they are produced to order, which will also add to the cost.
Do any of the manufacturers specifically design their products, (including proper R&D) for ztVRs, I don't think so.

I'm sure they haven't the budget for that.

What we get is a generic unit that with a bit of guesswork and calculation is set up for our cars.

TVR, one ton, sporty feel, not too expensive, that'll do!

GlynMo

1,140 posts

248 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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phazed said:
Do any of the manufacturers specifically design their products, (including proper R&D) for ztVRs, I don't think so.

I'm sure they haven't the budget for that.
I know Ohlins did because I know one of the development team.

andy43

9,548 posts

253 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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The original TVR press cars had Ohlins.
I think I'd go for latest spec Billies if I needed to replace my existing Bilsteins, unless I win the lottery...
http://www.go-faster.com/TVR_Griffith_500.html

V8 GRF

7,294 posts

209 months

Saturday 21st March 2015
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phazed said:
Do any of the manufacturers specifically design their products, (including proper R&D) for ztVRs, I don't think so.!
Bilstein do, Ben Lang, one of TVRs development engineers did a great deal of work with them for the Sagaris and other late T cars. He runs a business supplying them and advertises in Sprint.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Blackdown-Automotive

sales@blackdownautomotive.co.uk

neutral 3

6,356 posts

169 months

Monday 23rd March 2015
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It doesn't matter how good the shocks are.....the Griff chassis just isn't strong enough.....smooth road and it's pretty good...but throw in some bumps and.....

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

178 months

Tuesday 24th March 2015
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neutral 3 said:
It doesn't matter how good the shocks are.....the Griff chassis just isn't strong enough.....smooth road and it's pretty good...but throw in some bumps and.....
Disagree nono

The Chim/Griff chassis really isn't much less torsionaly rigid than that of a Tamora/T350 because fundamentally the chassis is the same.

The difference is all in the suspension geometry IE: wishbone & damper pick up points, coil over inclination, front & rear uprights ect.

Admittedly the fabled handling Sagaris did have a slightly wider track too, but again the structural strength is still not a massive leap forward from a Griff/Chim chassis.

You can put the best dampers on a Griff/Chim and make it a bit better handling, but you are not changing the fundamental geometry issues.

To my mind a massive handling improvement would come from ditching the TVR adapted Ford Sierra front uprights which were designed by Ford for McPherson struts not wishbones!

TVR knew this upright was a compromised design which is why all subsequent models benefited from bespoke billet ally front uprights.

If you buy an Evolution chassis from SportMotive, a set of properly designed uprights come with it. I appreciate to do the job properly the wishbone & damper pick up points need moving which you also get with the Evolution chassis but this isn't really practical to execute on a standard Chim/Griff chassis.

To that end I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a retro-fit set of proper uprights that would bolt straight onto a standard Chim/Griff chassis, these with a set of decent coil overs and wishbones with an adjustment range to suit would be the way achieve big improvements.

Asking a better coil over unit to solve the inherent geometry issues is not any kind of engineering solution to the real issue, it doesn't matter how good that coil over is it will always be fighting against the problem inherent within the existing Chim/Griff suspension geometry.

If I really wanted my Chim to handle better I'd be looking into at least solving the the front upright issue before spending a fortune on fancy coil overs wink

spitfire4v8

3,990 posts

180 months

Tuesday 24th March 2015
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What do you consider is the problem with the front upright as it is dave?

portzi

2,296 posts

174 months

Tuesday 24th March 2015
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ChimpOnGas said:
neutral 3 said:
It doesn't matter how good the shocks are.....the Griff chassis just isn't strong enough.....smooth road and it's pretty good...but throw in some bumps and.....
Disagree nono

The Chim/Griff chassis really isn't much less torsionaly rigid than that of a Tamora/T350 because fundamentally the chassis is the same.

The difference is all in the suspension geometry IE: wishbone & damper pick up points, coil over inclination, front & rear uprights ect.

Admittedly the fabled handling Sagaris did have a slightly wider track too, but again the structural strength is still not a massive leap forward from a Griff/Chim chassis.

You can put the best dampers on a Griff/Chim and make it a bit better handling, but you are not changing the fundamental geometry issues.

To my mind a massive handling improvement would come from ditching the TVR adapted Ford Sierra front uprights which were designed by Ford for McPherson struts not wishbones!

TVR knew this upright was a compromised design which is why all subsequent models benefited from bespoke billet ally front uprights.

If you buy an Evolution chassis from SportMotive, a set of properly designed uprights come with it. I appreciate to do the job properly the wishbone & damper pick up points need moving which you also get with the Evolution chassis but this isn't really practical to execute on a standard Chim/Griff chassis.

To that end I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with a retro-fit set of proper uprights that would bolt straight onto a standard Chim/Griff chassis, these with a set of decent coil overs and wishbones with an adjustment range to suit would be the way achieve big improvements.

Asking a better coil over unit to solve the inherent geometry issues is not any kind of engineering solution to the real issue, it doesn't matter how good that coil over is it will always be fighting against the problem inherent within the existing Chim/Griff suspension geometry.

If I really wanted my Chim to handle better I'd be looking into at least solving the the front upright issue before spending a fortune on fancy coil overs wink
Great idea but as we know griff and chim owners will not pay top money for these uprights and have to extremley cheap to manufacture. I manufactured my own top wishbones with unique camber adjustment. This took alot of my time working late evenings at my engineering works so l know what development goes into such upgrades.

neutral 3

6,356 posts

169 months

Thursday 26th March 2015
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Jack a Griff up under the B post and you will see just how weak the chassis is ( Don't do this with the door shut ) There is very little weight rear of the B post area, but the chassis flexes alarmingly.

For independent suspension to work properly, the chassis that is is attached to has to be very strong, drive a TR6 down a bumpy road ( as I did In many of them in my youth ) and you will see where I'm coming from.
Austin discovered this with the Austin Gipsy 4x4 series 1 in 1958. For the superb, revised Series 1V Gipsy, Austin went to leaf springs, which worked perfectly.