Help greatly appreciated

Help greatly appreciated

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Discussion

J4gnut70

Original Poster:

8 posts

106 months

Monday 22nd June 2015
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Hello, im hoping someone could point me the right direction. My newly rebuilt 4.3 runs really great.....with the Airflow meter and Stepper disconnected, if a little rich, connect them up and it seems to run on just a few cylinders on one bank. The manifold fron 2,4,6,8 goes cool, 1,3,5,7 is as normal, the oil is full of fuel (changed quickly), plugs mostly wet with fuel a few sooted up. Ive changed the stepper and meter but its still the same, Rover guage indicates all is well, ive checked for air leaks but have found none......my added problem is my abilities with a Multimeter are no match for the Spanners and Calipers, im seriously thinking of installing some Downdraft Webers lol. KInd regards, Neil

stesrg

1,559 posts

238 months

Monday 22nd June 2015
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Hi , try swapping the maf is anyone near you who could borrow you theirs for a while ?
Ste.

carsy

3,018 posts

165 months

Monday 22nd June 2015
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If a complete bank is dropping out, id say ecu or engine loom problem.

Not sure why it would come back to life when you disconnect the maf tho.

J4gnut70

Original Poster:

8 posts

106 months

Monday 22nd June 2015
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Thanks, yes ive tried another meter...no change. Im thinking along the line that ive nipped a wire or connected somthing incorrectly. Every so often with the Stepper and Maf connected i seem to catch the sweet spot while coaxing some gentle revs on the throttle, just for a second or so, mostly when the revs are comming down. Great compression, Oil pressure and Spark.

blitzracing

6,387 posts

220 months

Monday 22nd June 2015
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I think you have answered your own question- Id suggest a short to ground on the injector "ground" wire (yellow / white) the faulty side. This will cause 4 injectors to stick open and provide constant fuel. The ground wire is switched to ground by the ECU, so it should never be shorted to ground all the time. You will pick this up with a test meter across the injector connector- it should be 0 volts across the injector with the ignition on and not started- BUT- I think its part of the 12 volt supply that also runs the pump- so look for it in the first few seconds when you first turn the ignition on, as it may go off with the pump if the engine is not running. Otherwise borrow a "noid" light from someone that displays the injector pulse as the injectors fire. The looms have been known to rub through and short out.

Edited by blitzracing on Monday 22 June 19:59

J4gnut70

Original Poster:

8 posts

106 months

Monday 22nd June 2015
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Thats great, and make sense. I will report on progress when i have some. Thanks all.

J4gnut70

Original Poster:

8 posts

106 months

Wednesday 24th June 2015
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Update...ive put a Noid light on injectors and am getting a really fast dull flash on all, id say it was almost constant. Looking at Noid lamp tests on you tube they seem to show a really bright slow pulse at idle...so i think im on the right track? Putting my meter across ecu pins 2&13, 2&11 (Both Inj banks) and 7&25, 32&25 (Fuel&Coolant sensors) i get nothing so i will now start hunting for the short to ground. Before i do does anyone know which one of the earthing points these use? Worth a check.

blitzracing

6,387 posts

220 months

Friday 26th June 2015
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Umm- not what I expected. The ECU switches the two banks separately, 4 injectors at a time, so if you had a short on one side, id expect 4 all 4 injectors to be lit solidly on the failing side, whilst the other side would be flashing, but you say both sides are the same. You should be able to see the injector pulses quite clearly at idle, so a dim flashing signal is odd to say the least. What does it do without the engine running when you first turn the ignition on? It should be off completely.It also does not tie in with the fact that one side of the V is running cold- if the injectors where doing the same on both sides, Id expect both banks to be running at the same temp. Recheck you readings between left and right bank- I cant belive an ignition fault would happen 4 cylinders on one bank, so its got to be fuel, and the injector earth rail is the only common point....As for earth's, the ECU has a master earth that goes onto the chassis that the injectors are grounded through. This is also tied to the engine block, so you can use this as reference.

J4gnut70

Original Poster:

8 posts

106 months

Friday 26th June 2015
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Thanks for that. Ive spent a bit of time on it this evening.....running the meter across the inj connector with ignition off i get 0.00...turn key to ignnition on and i get between 0.010 - 0.012 across the full 8. Tried Noid light again..ignition off = no light, ignition on = no light, cranking = no light, as soon as she catches very dim, ALMOST constant light...as the engine revs drop off to stall the light fades.
Rover gauge again shows no fault codes all seems well, Map 2 displayed (but this section did take a min or so to populate, can't remember it doing that before...fuel and coolant temp all ok, pump ok.
I pulled the ECU plug and again checked pins 7 & 25 (Coolant) with ign on...this time i got a reading, along with pins 32 & 25 (Fuel) I think i probed them the wrong way around last time (i said electrics weren't my strong point), but no matter which way around i tried i still got nothing from 2 & 13 and 2 & 11 (both banks).
Last night i dissconnected the pos lead from the battery and ran a bulb tester from it to the terminal....i had light...as i was leaning in through the open n/s door i pushed the interior light door switch as that was the only thing still working, when i did the light dimmed then started pulsing accompanied by a clicking noise which seemed to come from under the center console, then the alarm went off.
I checked the earth to the N/S head..all seemed ok here, i have done a full body lift chassis refurb and have tried to be very careful with the earthing points....every thing else works.
My plan tomorrow is to remove the Plenum and Trumpet base so i can get a good look at the wiring you mentioned...joy!

blitzracing

6,387 posts

220 months

Saturday 27th June 2015
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Just checked the injector wiring- its 12 volts on one side of the connector all the time the ignition is on (left side if you unplug the connector, and the wire clip is towards you) if you put the negative probe to chassis ground. This makes things easier as the injector supply is permanent, and not switched with the fuel pump feed. The other side is switched to ground by the ECU when it fires the injectors. There is nothing stopping you unplugging all the injectors, but leave the noid light in, and spin the engine to see if you get a sensible reading.

J4gnut70

Original Poster:

8 posts

106 months

Sunday 28th June 2015
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Great, i disconnected all the injectors but left the noid light in number 6...turned it on the starter, no light, but as it spluttered the noid lit up dimly as before. Running the meter as you said again gives me the same result as when i ran it between the inj plug terminals 0.010. As soon as the weather breaks i will start checking the earths and wiring.

J4gnut70

Original Poster:

8 posts

106 months

Monday 29th June 2015
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This evening i removed the Plenum and trumpet base to give myself some room. As i still had all the inj plugs disconnected i thought id try the meter to ground again...still .0010 on the left side but i found that i had the full 12v on the right, wire clip towards me pointing down (Brown Orange). As soon as i plug in just one i get 12v to ground on both sides of the other 7 plugs, Still nothing at ECU.

blitzracing

6,387 posts

220 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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Thats basically correct, so you cant have an injector bank shorted out then, so I would not spend more time on this avenue of diagnostics. Take 2 steps backwards. On the V8 Bank thats running cold, remove a plug and see if its wet- least this will prove the injectors are firing. Assuming it is wet, and that is why you have loads of fuel floating around, that only leaves ignition. This would be odd, to loose just one bank as the coil, dizzy cap, rotor supplies spark to both sides. This would mean you have 4 plug leads in the wrong order on one side only (??) or faulty leads. Id get a strobe on each plug lead and check you have a decent HT pulse across all 8.

J4gnut70

Original Poster:

8 posts

106 months

Tuesday 30th June 2015
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Yes id checked those before....strobe on all showed good pulse, plugs wet and as i mentioned disconnet the maf and stepper, blip the throttle she runs great ??? Stepping back a bit and giving it some thought last night i remember the only wire i was a little unsure of when i connected things back up was the white wire which comes out of the ign amp (runs from the neg of the coil into the amp,and back out). It has a female connector on it.... ive run it to a male which comes out of the loom part way up the branch which runs to the Maf...is this correct? When its connected and i turn the dizzy the fuel pump pulses....disconnected it it doesn't.