Slow windows - A cure

antonyj said:

dilbert said: antonyj said: Not knocking what David B said about the relay, but to be honest I cant see how it would work on the window system. The switch reverses the polarity to make the window go up and down. This means you would need a relay that could recognise this polarity change and in turn mimic it with an external 12v supply. Maybe there is such a device readily available. The reason David B says this relay is needed is to give a better supply to the window motor, however what confuses me is if its a wire size problem , how come the window passenger side doesnt suffer from it?? I would love to see a final solution for this, and would love to find the controllers to enable us griff owners to have dropping windows when we open the doors. A A little birdie tells me, that an independent solution to this (and a myriad of other) problems is on it's way. The birdie didn't want to commit to any kind of timescale, unfortnately. Currently, software is on the critical path. The birdie tells me, that the hardware might look like the picture below! Got the pic again? It doesnt seem to be working....

I took the picture down for a number of reasons. Not least that the stuff I'm working on doesn't solve the problem that is the subject of this thread, more the problem that some have mentioned.

I'm personally clear that there are a range of capabilities available in modern cars, that people expect to be able to add to their older vehicles, but realise they can't easily achieve with relays and switches. My solution is generic, a bit like an industrial programmable logic controller. The idea isn't new, but the suff you can buy at the moment doesn't really suit the automotive environment.

It'll be a while yet, but I'm pretty dedicated to getting it done. The major effort is producing the software that allows the custom configuration for the control electronics, which in themselves are relatively straightforward.

Sticking my finger in the air, I'd guess that we're looking at it being available mid to late next year.

I've probably said more than I should already, but it's interesting to see that some people are interested in things that it will be able to do, that I hadn't originally considered.

Thanks David

Tried the relay thing tonight on my passenger side (nearer to the battery) and hey presto........!

Fast Windows

I did exactly as David suggested, if anyone was wondering.

Works a treat, on my Chimaera anyway.

Best of luck.

Ed.

I tried the silicon spray and fiddling around. There is still no getting away from the fact that a 12v motor needs more than 8 volts.

david beer said:

OK find the 4 pin connector before it goes into the door, notice two thin wires and two thick wires, cut these thick ones or pull the plug apart and link out the thin wires. look at the wiring layout of a "normal" automotive relay 87a join to 85 and to neg 86 to one "thin "wire from the switch 30 to motor "thick" 87 to pos repeat with other relay All the original wiring has to do is pull in the relays.! Now when relay 1 gets a pos voltage it pulls in and joins 30 to 87 pos, relay 2 is not in use and 30 is to neg. When relay 2 gets a pos it joins pin 30 to pos, relay 1 is not in use and pin 30 is to neg. If they go the wrong way, simply reverse the "input" wire from the switch. It could be made plug and play, if you could source the spade connectors. On the subject of window droppers, you could "pulse" the down relay from the same point on the door lock solenoid, maybe a doide, just in case !

David Why "link" out the thin wires?






Ant

>> Edited by antonyj on Thursday 24th November 22:07

All over my head....... wish I understood as my windows have grinded to a halt in this weather

Garage hellp

david beer said:

The original wiring only has to turn on a relay,which as you say is a switch. So the relay gets its power from a new source, ie direct from the battery, the "switch" then supplies the original part, ie window motor, starter solenoid(hot start),headlights. Its a way of having crap wire supplying heavy current. The other two wires in the four pin socket are i think speakers, that why you just link them out. JoolzB said: Just outta interest and being a bit of a spud, how does the relay boost the power, my basic understanding was that it was basically a switch??? cheers Joolz

Ahh right, I understand it now, sorry if I was a bit slow.

cheers

MrsFlipFlopGriff said:

Our passenger side window has got slower and slower so would want to do this but being an eletrcical dimmo do I need to buy a relay and a connector for the relay? Any pics to help please. Suffering from the flu so won't be doing in the immediate future. FFG

You need to buy two automotive relays per side, they come with spade connectors already.
Make sure you get the ones with 5 connectors i.e 87 and 87a

cheers
Joolz[/quote][/quote]

Ahh right, I understand it now, sorry if I was a bit slow.



"A bit slow" a relay needed !

You can take the pos from the battery terminal or either of the brass sticky out things on the fuse box. Rememeber to fuse the new wiring ! The neg is better from the battery neg, we have enough dodgy earths.
Anybody with "auto close" windows, can not do it like this, the windows would not want to stop.

DB has told me he may be able to supply a 'plug in and play' kit.
If a kit is made available I will buy one (or should that be two?)

FlipFlopGriff said:

OK, laymans terms as I understand (trying my best to get my head around it): link 87a to 85. 85 to neg (new wire to earth) so 2 wires onto 85 pin. 87 to pos (new supply required). 30 to the thick motor wire (feeding into the 4 pin or out to the door?) 86 to one of the thin wires (feeding into the 4 pin or out to the door?) join other 2 thin wires together (assume speakers so should be grey/grey black). Shouldn't there be 2 speaker wires? Same for relay 2 (assume the other thick wire as one is feeding up and one feeds for down or are there 2 4 pin connector blocks?) What does 86 in the 2nd relay go to or do I need to split the thin wire so it goes into both relays. I assume the wires to connect are going to the door and the new supply replaces the wires going into the connector? I have the spades and a soldering iron but still suffering with the flu so not looked in the car for the connectors yet. We need pics as I am totally confused. FFG

Basically, (laymans)

Get 2 relays, link BOTH 85's and 87a's to ground(earth)

From the window switch, connect one wire to one 86 and the other to the other 86.

Connect one wire from the motor to one 30 and the other motor wire to the other 30

Connect both 87 to a new positive supply



As DB says the new relay are switched by the supplies from the switch.
Hats off to DB , as with most engineering answers it is simple but good.

A