Dist. Seller will only refund if they find fault or resell?
Discussion
porterpainter said:
The problem is that it’s not working, it opens (ie pulls the catches all the way back) only about half the time.
You say it doesn't pull the catches ALL the way back, does this mean it pulls the catches back a bit when it doesn't work, or do the catches not move at all.If the catches don't move at all it could be WiFi, app, or just about anything, however if the catch moves but not all the way then it is the catch that is getting caught or rubbing on something. In which case the lock is probably fitted badly and something doesn't line up as it should.
Do the catches move how they should when it's off the door?
dundarach said:
From their perspective, you bought a £600 Nuki Smartlock over a month ago which has developed a fault, or is faulty.
One would assume it wasn't delivered faulty as you've taken 30 days to discover the fault, or you've waited to install it or report it, either way the seller has an item which is a month old and has developed a fault.
If it had been faulty, or not suitable within 14 days you could have simply returned it.
If this was a TV, you'd expect the seller to attempt to fix the product, not sure what's different here?
So either it is faulty, in which case they are legally allowed to try and repair or replace it, it's £600 you should expect them to want to determine whether it is faulty.
It's installed incorrectly, sorry not sure it's the sellers issue.
Or it doesn't meet the specification it claims, in which case explain this very clearly and refer to the data where it states something it doesn't do.
Sounds to me that the issues are choppy wifi - do you have a booster is this the issue?
The app, does your phone meet the specs, is it too old \ new?
Or it's just duff, in which case return it.
At this point, what has the seller done wrong?
Hi there,One would assume it wasn't delivered faulty as you've taken 30 days to discover the fault, or you've waited to install it or report it, either way the seller has an item which is a month old and has developed a fault.
If it had been faulty, or not suitable within 14 days you could have simply returned it.
If this was a TV, you'd expect the seller to attempt to fix the product, not sure what's different here?
So either it is faulty, in which case they are legally allowed to try and repair or replace it, it's £600 you should expect them to want to determine whether it is faulty.
It's installed incorrectly, sorry not sure it's the sellers issue.
Or it doesn't meet the specification it claims, in which case explain this very clearly and refer to the data where it states something it doesn't do.
Sounds to me that the issues are choppy wifi - do you have a booster is this the issue?
The app, does your phone meet the specs, is it too old \ new?
Or it's just duff, in which case return it.
At this point, what has the seller done wrong?
Thanks for your post but your assumptions are not correct.
Ordered lock on 24th April, delivered on 26th April and installed a couple of days later. A few days of tinkering and changing settings and then I reached out to the support desk on 10th May and have been exchanging emails so them since. I think that’s an opportunity for them to repair or replace, they haven’t. Basically they’ve just ended up telling be to take a key as a back-up. That’s why I’ve decided I don’t want it.
Why do you think it’s installed incorrectly? You simply install a small frame over the lock after installing the barrel. Not much to go wrong.
I have an iPhone 15 pro on the latest software, I bought the pro model of the smart lock so it has inbuilt WiFi. Besides, the keypad is literally 90cm from the lock and works via Bluetooth I think.
So in answer to your question, what has the seller done wrong - well they’ve sold me something that does do what it’s supposed to do, and had caveated my rights to return it subject to criteria which I believe are unfair.
FMOB said:
Having just watched the installation guide I would never install that on a property.
Yes it might be smart tech but it is just a glorified key turner that requires the actual key to be in the lock and looks very vulnerable to just being levered or kicked off the door to reveal the key.
Easier than snapping a euro barrel.
I’m not sure what model you have watched but there’s no key in my one. It has an ULTION 3* anti snap barrel in it. From the exterior it’s just like a normal lock. Yes it might be smart tech but it is just a glorified key turner that requires the actual key to be in the lock and looks very vulnerable to just being levered or kicked off the door to reveal the key.
Easier than snapping a euro barrel.
Yellow Lizud said:
You say it doesn't pull the catches ALL the way back, does this mean it pulls the catches back a bit when it doesn't work, or do the catches not move at all.
If the catches don't move at all it could be WiFi, app, or just about anything, however if the catch moves but not all the way then it is the catch that is getting caught or rubbing on something. In which case the lock is probably fitted badly and something doesn't line up as it should.
Do the catches move how they should when it's off the door?
Hi, If the catches don't move at all it could be WiFi, app, or just about anything, however if the catch moves but not all the way then it is the catch that is getting caught or rubbing on something. In which case the lock is probably fitted badly and something doesn't line up as it should.
Do the catches move how they should when it's off the door?
Thanks for your post. There’s two rotations to open the door. First to unlock it, the second to open it. As far as I can tell when it doesn’t open, it’s only doing one rotation (ie to unlock). The same occurs with the door open.
There is literally nothing to the fitting of the lock itself as I mentioned in a previous post. If it was an installation problem, I would imagine it wouldn’t work at all.
It may be the motor doesn’t have the grunt to do the second rotation, but like I say it’s hit and miss. The composite door itself isn’t that old and all the mechanism for that has been fine with the previous lock which had a key outside and thumb turn on the inside.
Cheers
Andy
porterpainter said:
dundarach said:
From their perspective, you bought a £600 Nuki Smartlock over a month ago which has developed a fault, or is faulty.
One would assume it wasn't delivered faulty as you've taken 30 days to discover the fault, or you've waited to install it or report it, either way the seller has an item which is a month old and has developed a fault.
If it had been faulty, or not suitable within 14 days you could have simply returned it.
If this was a TV, you'd expect the seller to attempt to fix the product, not sure what's different here?
So either it is faulty, in which case they are legally allowed to try and repair or replace it, it's £600 you should expect them to want to determine whether it is faulty.
It's installed incorrectly, sorry not sure it's the sellers issue.
Or it doesn't meet the specification it claims, in which case explain this very clearly and refer to the data where it states something it doesn't do.
Sounds to me that the issues are choppy wifi - do you have a booster is this the issue?
The app, does your phone meet the specs, is it too old \ new?
Or it's just duff, in which case return it.
At this point, what has the seller done wrong?
Hi there,One would assume it wasn't delivered faulty as you've taken 30 days to discover the fault, or you've waited to install it or report it, either way the seller has an item which is a month old and has developed a fault.
If it had been faulty, or not suitable within 14 days you could have simply returned it.
If this was a TV, you'd expect the seller to attempt to fix the product, not sure what's different here?
So either it is faulty, in which case they are legally allowed to try and repair or replace it, it's £600 you should expect them to want to determine whether it is faulty.
It's installed incorrectly, sorry not sure it's the sellers issue.
Or it doesn't meet the specification it claims, in which case explain this very clearly and refer to the data where it states something it doesn't do.
Sounds to me that the issues are choppy wifi - do you have a booster is this the issue?
The app, does your phone meet the specs, is it too old \ new?
Or it's just duff, in which case return it.
At this point, what has the seller done wrong?
Thanks for your post but your assumptions are not correct.
Ordered lock on 24th April, delivered on 26th April and installed a couple of days later. A few days of tinkering and changing settings and then I reached out to the support desk on 10th May and have been exchanging emails so them since. I think that’s an opportunity for them to repair or replace, they haven’t. Basically they’ve just ended up telling be to take a key as a back-up. That’s why I’ve decided I don’t want it.
Why do you think it’s installed incorrectly? You simply install a small frame over the lock after installing the barrel. Not much to go wrong.
I have an iPhone 15 pro on the latest software, I bought the pro model of the smart lock so it has inbuilt WiFi. Besides, the keypad is literally 90cm from the lock and works via Bluetooth I think.
So in answer to your question, what has the seller done wrong - well they’ve sold me something that does do what it’s supposed to do, and had caveated my rights to return it subject to criteria which I believe are unfair.
Can you see it's network from a laptop, can you browse to it or ping it consistently?
Does the device work in a different part of the house when not connected to the door?
Is it on a conflicting wifi band?
From their point of view, you've had it more than 14 days, why shouldn't they ask you to return it for them to determine whether it's faulty?
I'd be pissed OP, however you've got to see things from their side, unfortunately like it or not, I don't think any of us will be able to convince a supplier that we can diagnose a fault with something they've sold, unless it's obviously broken, which I'm not sure this is?
It COULD be your phone, unless you've tried others?
It COULD be your home environment and interference?
It COULD be something you've done when you installed it?
I'm struggling why you wouldn't return it, unless you don't actually believe it to be faulty, is it actually just crap and not faulty, in which case, that's a completely different argument, you've bought something that doesn't do what you think it should, that's a harder thing to get a refund over.
Not trying to upset you honestly, it's just you've got to be realistic in what they're going to think.
porterpainter said:
Yellow Lizud said:
You say it doesn't pull the catches ALL the way back, does this mean it pulls the catches back a bit when it doesn't work, or do the catches not move at all.
If the catches don't move at all it could be WiFi, app, or just about anything, however if the catch moves but not all the way then it is the catch that is getting caught or rubbing on something. In which case the lock is probably fitted badly and something doesn't line up as it should.
Do the catches move how they should when it's off the door?
Hi, If the catches don't move at all it could be WiFi, app, or just about anything, however if the catch moves but not all the way then it is the catch that is getting caught or rubbing on something. In which case the lock is probably fitted badly and something doesn't line up as it should.
Do the catches move how they should when it's off the door?
Thanks for your post. There’s two rotations to open the door. First to unlock it, the second to open it. As far as I can tell when it doesn’t open, it’s only doing one rotation (ie to unlock). The same occurs with the door open.
There is literally nothing to the fitting of the lock itself as I mentioned in a previous post. If it was an installation problem, I would imagine it wouldn’t work at all.
It may be the motor doesn’t have the grunt to do the second rotation, but like I say it’s hit and miss. The composite door itself isn’t that old and all the mechanism for that has been fine with the previous lock which had a key outside and thumb turn on the inside.
Cheers
Andy
dundarach said:
Does it work with an android phone?
Can you see it's network from a laptop, can you browse to it or ping it consistently?
Does the device work in a different part of the house when not connected to the door?
Is it on a conflicting wifi band?
From their point of view, you've had it more than 14 days, why shouldn't they ask you to return it for them to determine whether it's faulty?
I'd be pissed OP, however you've got to see things from their side, unfortunately like it or not, I don't think any of us will be able to convince a supplier that we can diagnose a fault with something they've sold, unless it's obviously broken, which I'm not sure this is?
It COULD be your phone, unless you've tried others?
It COULD be your home environment and interference?
It COULD be something you've done when you installed it?
I'm struggling why you wouldn't return it, unless you don't actually believe it to be faulty, is it actually just crap and not faulty, in which case, that's a completely different argument, you've bought something that doesn't do what you think it should, that's a harder thing to get a refund over.
Not trying to upset you honestly, it's just you've got to be realistic in what they're going to think.
It COULD be solar flares interfering with the lock too I guess Can you see it's network from a laptop, can you browse to it or ping it consistently?
Does the device work in a different part of the house when not connected to the door?
Is it on a conflicting wifi band?
From their point of view, you've had it more than 14 days, why shouldn't they ask you to return it for them to determine whether it's faulty?
I'd be pissed OP, however you've got to see things from their side, unfortunately like it or not, I don't think any of us will be able to convince a supplier that we can diagnose a fault with something they've sold, unless it's obviously broken, which I'm not sure this is?
It COULD be your phone, unless you've tried others?
It COULD be your home environment and interference?
It COULD be something you've done when you installed it?
I'm struggling why you wouldn't return it, unless you don't actually believe it to be faulty, is it actually just crap and not faulty, in which case, that's a completely different argument, you've bought something that doesn't do what you think it should, that's a harder thing to get a refund over.
Not trying to upset you honestly, it's just you've got to be realistic in what they're going to think.
As I mentioned same occurs when using the key pad which is directly connected to the lock (no WiFi no phone) and the fact the lock does something (unlocks but doesn’t open) shows there’s a connection).
I am 100% confident in my installation. It’s basically fitting a lock barrel and sticking the lock to the door. I’ve refurbished houses and built extensions, so this is well within my capabilities.
I will return it, but as I mentioned, I think the caveats the seller is putting on a refund are unreasonable (sending to Austria for testing) and / or being resell-able are not reasonable.
Yellow Lizud said:
So does it do the two rotations when it is off the door?
I have not removed the lock from the door to test. It requires being stuck to the door to hold the lock in place to turn it.I have tried with the door open (ie away from the frame) and the same issues occur.
It’s like the lock doesn’t have enough ooomph / torque to complete the rotation some of the time. The battery is charged sufficiently.
Even if it did rotate twice off the door, the fact is that it it doesn’t do what’s advertised - ie open my door. There’s no exceptions lists, etc on their website, so I think it’s a reasonable expectation that it should do what’s advertised.
Nuki is a brand name of Brisant secure.
Try contacting them direct as Brisant are an established hardware company with a good reputation and like to look after customers.
Worth a go.
I work within this industry at a senior level and it is my opinion that electronic/keyless locks are still in their infancy. Retro fitting this type of lock to an existing door set is frought with dangers as there are so many variables. If there are any slight issues with the original set up that may have been masked by manual operation they will be exposed with an electronic/keyless lock.
Try contacting them direct as Brisant are an established hardware company with a good reputation and like to look after customers.
Worth a go.
I work within this industry at a senior level and it is my opinion that electronic/keyless locks are still in their infancy. Retro fitting this type of lock to an existing door set is frought with dangers as there are so many variables. If there are any slight issues with the original set up that may have been masked by manual operation they will be exposed with an electronic/keyless lock.
Edited by Bright Halo on Wednesday 22 May 09:58
porterpainter said:
Yellow Lizud said:
So does it do the two rotations when it is off the door?
I have not removed the lock from the door to test. It requires being stuck to the door to hold the lock in place to turn it.I have tried with the door open (ie away from the frame) and the same issues occur.
It’s like the lock doesn’t have enough ooomph / torque to complete the rotation some of the time. The battery is charged sufficiently.
Even if it did rotate twice off the door, the fact is that it it doesn’t do what’s advertised - ie open my door. There’s no exceptions lists, etc on their website, so I think it’s a reasonable expectation that it should do what’s advertised.
Yes,it could be a faulty motor (or even a faulty battery) but it sounds far more likely to be a misalignment problem, either between the lock and the door or something on the door.
I understand it's a pain in the arse you can do without, but it'll be a lot less hassle to try and sort it yourself rather than wait months trying to get a refund from Austria.
Yellow Lizud said:
If you have not removed the lock to test it as a stand-alone piece of equipment, how do you know it's the lock and not the installation?
Yes,it could be a faulty motor (or even a faulty battery) but it sounds far more likely to be a misalignment problem, either between the lock and the door or something on the door.
I understand it's a pain in the arse you can do without, but it'll be a lot less hassle to try and sort it yourself rather than wait months trying to get a refund from Austria.
Feel like I'm going round in circles, it works some of the time so clearly the motor works.Yes,it could be a faulty motor (or even a faulty battery) but it sounds far more likely to be a misalignment problem, either between the lock and the door or something on the door.
I understand it's a pain in the arse you can do without, but it'll be a lot less hassle to try and sort it yourself rather than wait months trying to get a refund from Austria.
The lock needs to work on the door. It doesn't. Doesn't matter if it works off the door. The item is advertised as being a simple fit and forget. It clearly isn't.
In my dealings with the manufacture, they have not once asked about my door - they have focused on the software.
If the smart lock needs a great degree or precision, or a certain type of door, or something else that makes my composite door incompatible, then that should be stated at the point of purchase.
The same door and mechanism operated just fine with the old thumb turn look. I believe it's reasonable to assume it should work with the smart lock as advertised.
I appreciate folks are tying to help, but I'm looking for assistance with my consumer rights and not software or fitting guidance.
porterpainter said:
dundarach said:
So you've not tested it without being connected to your door?
Er.....
Can you see the problem?
No. Er.....
Can you see the problem?
Working on the door is a pretty fundamental requirement of a door lock.
This will probably be the view of the supplier.
Bright Halo said:
Nuki is a brand name of Brisant secure.
Try contacting them direct as Brisant are an established hardware company with a good reputation and like to look after customers.
Worth a go.
I work within this industry at a senior level and it is my opinion that electronic/keyless locks are still in their infancy. Retro fitting this type of lock to an existing door set is fought with dangers as there are so many variables. If there are any slight issues with the original set up that may have been masked by manual operation they will be exposed with an electronic/keyless lock.
Thanks. Yes, I now realise that I'd inadvertently named the co when quoting their reply in my original post.Try contacting them direct as Brisant are an established hardware company with a good reputation and like to look after customers.
Worth a go.
I work within this industry at a senior level and it is my opinion that electronic/keyless locks are still in their infancy. Retro fitting this type of lock to an existing door set is fought with dangers as there are so many variables. If there are any slight issues with the original set up that may have been masked by manual operation they will be exposed with an electronic/keyless lock.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, the smart lock doesn't seem to have the torque to cope with opening my door.
I will reach out to Brisant, but have been dealing with the Nuki team and the sellers Ultion, whom also seem to be part of the same group.
porterpainter said:
I appreciate folks are tying to help, but I'm looking for assistance with my consumer rights and not software or fitting guidance.
A lot of people are trying to help you here and save you a lot of hassle, but if you want to go down the "I know my rights" route then that's fine. I'm out.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff