Turbulence Kills One

Author
Discussion

Mabbs9

1,116 posts

220 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
Downward said:
Wonder what the protocol is if the cabin crew are serving dinner. Do the pilots ask them to strap in and they have to get back quick with the trolley and secure this too ?
Sometimes. It's rarely that bad though.

CLK-GTR

868 posts

247 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
Downward said:
Wonder what the protocol is if the cabin crew are serving dinner. Do the pilots ask them to strap in and they have to get back quick with the trolley and secure this too ?
If it's bad enough. Rare though. Cabin cew also know how to position themselves safely if they get caught away from a seat.

MitchT

15,981 posts

211 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
Downward said:
Wonder what the protocol is if the cabin crew are serving dinner. Do the pilots ask them to strap in and they have to get back quick with the trolley and secure this too ?
Yes, I was once on an AA 777 from JFK to LHR where dinner was suspended shortly after service started 90 minutes or so into the flight. Trolleys were stowed and cabin crew strapped in. Service was finally resumed a couple of hours later. Interesting sitting there holding onto a (plastic) glass of juice while droplets of it fly two feet or so into the air in front of you trying to catch them back in the glass!

essayer

9,129 posts

196 months

Tuesday 21st May
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Red Eye season 2 ?

Sorry

MOBB

3,651 posts

129 months

Tuesday 21st May
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One passenger told Reuters news agency that the aircraft suddenly started "tilting up and there was shaking".

"So I started bracing for what was happening, and very suddenly there was a very dramatic drop so everyone seated and not wearing seatbelt was launched immediately into the ceiling," 28-year-old student Dzafran Azmir said.

"Some people hit their heads on the baggage cabins overhead and dented it, they hit the places where lights and masks are and broke straight through it."

Rusty Old-Banger

4,250 posts

215 months

Tuesday 21st May
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budgie smuggler said:
I suppose it doesn;t really need to be that bad to kill somebody ... if something came out of the overhead locker somehow.
I thought this was the main reason why airlines don't like stupidly heavy cases being taken as "hand luggage" by selfish, self-important passengers. Was certainly the reason when I worked in the industry back in the 1990s (7kg limit iirc).

captain_cynic

12,468 posts

97 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
Rusty Old-Banger said:
budgie smuggler said:
I suppose it doesn;t really need to be that bad to kill somebody ... if something came out of the overhead locker somehow.
I thought this was the main reason why airlines don't like stupidly heavy cases being taken as "hand luggage" by selfish, self-important passengers. Was certainly the reason when I worked in the industry back in the 1990s (7kg limit iirc).
That, the risk of it falling out when the locker is opened and the fact that Ducho McEntitled is taking up the bin space reserved for 3 passengers on their own.

alangla

4,934 posts

183 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
Rusty Old-Banger said:
I thought this was the main reason why airlines don't like stupidly heavy cases being taken as "hand luggage" by selfish, self-important passengers. Was certainly the reason when I worked in the industry back in the 1990s (7kg limit iirc).
To be fair, in the 1990s you’d probably have been able to put it in the hold for nothing, so there wouldn’t have been any incentive to carry it on. Even now, it’s probably cheaper if you’ve not got a lot of stuff with you to pay to take it on rather than paying to put it in the hold. I guess it’s a situation largely created by the airlines, so it would be interesting to see if the same issue occurs on airlines that still do hold luggage inclusive fares, eg Loganair (who also still seem to have a 6kg hand luggage limit, regardless of aircraft) or Southwest, who despite being the archetypal low cost airline, allow 2 free hold bags each.

budgie smuggler

5,427 posts

161 months

Tuesday 21st May
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CLK-GTR said:
787s and A350s already have this feature. Even with it, the masses and speeds involved mean its never going to be perfect.
Ah interesting, didn't know that. The company talks about it as if it is something new so I presume it goes over and above what those aircraft have?

More in depth article: https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/turb...

ecsrobin

17,379 posts

167 months

Tuesday 21st May
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News saying 73 year old likely heart attack.

Trevatanus

11,146 posts

152 months

Tuesday 21st May
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Report of death toll increasing to two 😟

ChocolateFrog

26,074 posts

175 months

Tuesday 21st May
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MOBB said:
One passenger told Reuters news agency that the aircraft suddenly started "tilting up and there was shaking".

"So I started bracing for what was happening, and very suddenly there was a very dramatic drop so everyone seated and not wearing seatbelt was launched immediately into the ceiling," 28-year-old student Dzafran Azmir said.

"Some people hit their heads on the baggage cabins overhead and dented it, they hit the places where lights and masks are and broke straight through it."
Eesh.

Gives you an idea of the forces involved.

u-boat

738 posts

16 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
Downward said:
Wonder what the protocol is if the cabin crew are serving dinner. Do the pilots ask them to strap in and they have to get back quick with the trolley and secure this too ?
Depends how bumpy it is tbh.

If it’s getting bumpy I’ll put the seatbelt sign on
If it’s getting a bit bumpier I’ll call the back and see how bad it is (big aircraft are bumpier at the back than front) and suggest they don’t serve hot drinks etc
If it’s bumpier I’ll get the crew to stop doing the meal drink service and sit down
If it’s suddenly very bumpy I’ll tell the crew to be seated and that will involve them sitting where they are.

The crew will usually make a decision about how bumpy it is anyway and whether they’re going to work or not but some need more input than others.

PRE FLIGHT We have forecasts and I brief the crew where and when it might get bumpy and how bad it will be etc but it’s just a forecast, this helps them plan their services etc.

During the flight we can see weather ahead and have weather radar and if it’s clear air turbulence we might get reports from aircraft in front.

In the front we can also fly at a slower speed like turbulence penetration speed which on my aircraft is Mach.84 we might also climb or descend to a smoother flight level if possible.

Obviously if it’s sudden like that (incredibly rare) then you might not get much notice.

Lots of passengers worry about turbulence, I worry about my passengers and crew getting injured but not the aircraft itself being damaged in turbulence.

If you’re in your seat and your seatbelt is even loosely fastened you’re not going to hit the roof in turbulence.


Edited by u-boat on Tuesday 21st May 14:33

gotoPzero

17,466 posts

191 months

Tuesday 21st May
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Abc321 said:
I like to think I am relatively intelligent and rational person, HOWEVER as silly as it sounds (and I know it is silly), my fear is that the stress on the wings will force them to break and we will plummet to our death.
Its possible but the reality is the aircraft simply cant pull the sort of g needed to snap the wing in normal flight. Most commercial aircraft are designed to be able to fly with loads of +3.0g IIRC. Thats a lot especially in level flight.

In a dive it could be an issue, but you are likely to overload the control surfaces first which would be the main issue is that other parts would fall off first.

Engines, slats, flaps, elevators etc etc.

Once all thats done the computers these days are not going to allow you to overload the airframe easily. The reality is planes want to fly. There have been many accidents like stall recovery where pilots would have actually done better to keep their hands off the controls and just let the aircraft sort itself out.

My main worry in severe turbulence would be the pilots over reacting or being thrown into the controls or something which causes them to try and hand fly in bad conditions. I.e AF447


David87

6,684 posts

214 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
u-boat said:
Depends how bumpy it is tbh.

If it’s getting bumpy I’ll put the seatbelt sign on
If it’s getting a bit bumpier I’ll call the back and see how bad it is (big aircraft are bumpier at the back than front) and suggest they don’t serve hot drinks etc
If it’s bumpier I’ll get the crew to stop doing the meal drink service and sit down
If it’s suddenly very bumpy I’ll tell the crew to be seated and that will involve them sitting where they are.
I can confirm this is also how it works with Emirates (and I'd imagine basically every airline - not that I need to tell you though! hehe).

I was on a DXB-LHR last month with what was basically a sustained 6 hours of varying degrees of turbulence and the cabin crew had to put up with all four levels outlined above. I know enough about aircraft to not be bothered by turbulence, but there was a lot of people who were genuinely terrified at times (screaming / crying etc.) so really did feel for them as it went on and on. Did feel like the A380 was a good place to be though due to its sheer size... does it also have some kind of system to try and counteract turbulence at all? Sure I read that somewhere once.

gotoPzero

17,466 posts

191 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
I love the A380 and thats one of the reasons even in chop its pretty smooth and you know it would be really rough in a 737 or something.

That said, I do like smaller aircraft they seem - to me as a non pilot anyway - to be a bit more sports car like where as the big wide bodies are more like trucks.

I get the feeling you could be pretty rough on a 737 or A320 and it would be a bit more forgiving to something 5x the weight.


captain_cynic

12,468 posts

97 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
Something I've wondered as well, are larger planes less susceptible to turbulence?

I've been in some fairly bad chop in an A380 but it always feels worse when in an A320/737 sized plane, at least according to my arse-gyro.

clio007

560 posts

227 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
I'm not in aviation but is it called turbulence when a plane dramatically drops so much that it makes people's head smash through the air vents?


Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?

u-boat

738 posts

16 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
clio007 said:
I'm not in aviation but is it called turbulence when a plane dramatically drops so much that it makes people's head smash through the air vents?


Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
What error has the pilot made?

Jim H

Original Poster:

959 posts

191 months

Tuesday 21st May
quotequote all
This is a question more directed to the pilots on here, Mabs U-Boat et al. Who always provide fascinating insight and equally reassurance on such matters.

Are you guys, in your own experience, encountering more instances of severe turbulence?

As reported in more of the MSP, they are linking Clear Air Turbulence with global warming - and allegedly it will only get worse.

Or is much the same as ever? And more akin to hysteria-like 24hr news reporting.

I can also understand if you wouldn’t wish to comment in the line of your profession.