Turbulence Kills One
Discussion
clio007 said:
I'm not in aviation but is it called turbulence when a plane dramatically drops so much that it makes people's head smash through the air vents?
Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
There are many varied reasons why turbulence occurs. All it is is disturbed air. Air can be disturbed for a number of reasons. You can get updraughts over mountains. You can get thermals over hot areas. You can get turbulence in and around clouds. You can get violent up and doundraughts in an around thunderstorms - which are to be avoided.Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
Most of these types of turbulence affect aircraft at lower levels - such as light aircraft, smaller turboprop feeder airliners and all airliners as they approach or depart airports. However, modern jet airliners spend a lot of their time at heights over and above 30,000 feet - which is normally above the weather and above most turbulence.
However, there is one form of turbulence that does occur at these heights and that is Clear Air Turbulence (CAT). As can be gleaned from the name, CAT appears to occur out of nowhere as it is is not associated with anything clearly obvious, like mountains, clouds, thunderstorms etc.
For many years it was a bit of a mystery as to what caused it.
We now know that it is associated with high altitude jet streams, particularly where two or more jet streams cross each other.
It is hard to detect as it occurs in clear air and is usually found by an aeroplane running into it and then informing air traffic control and other aircraft that they have encountered CAT at a particular location and altitude.
It can still catch an aeroplane by surprise.
SOMETIMES an aeroplane can suddenly ascend or descend due to a mechanical problem or a crew error. A couple of months ago a Boeing 787 suddenly descended when a pilot accidentally pushed the flight control yoke forward when his seat drove him forward. It seems the seat adjustment motor might have been accidentally activated by a member of the cabin crew inadvertently pushing the seat adjustment button.
This one sounds like bad CAT to me.
u-boat said:
clio007 said:
I'm not in aviation but is it called turbulence when a plane dramatically drops so much that it makes people's head smash through the air vents?
Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
What error has the pilot made? Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
Sounds pretty rough (no pun intended).
The Bay of Bengal over that way is notorious for some unstable conditions. I fly frequently to SEA and I can’t remember many smooth flights.
As others say, just buckle up…..it’s not like it’s uncomfortable and yet it might just save you.
Hopefully the others aren’t as serious as being reported.
The Bay of Bengal over that way is notorious for some unstable conditions. I fly frequently to SEA and I can’t remember many smooth flights.
As others say, just buckle up…..it’s not like it’s uncomfortable and yet it might just save you.
Hopefully the others aren’t as serious as being reported.
Yep, I’ve been on a couple of flight where the stewards have come and collected all drinks and strapped themselves in. It’s not fun hearing scream from fellow passengers every time the plane drops or rattles. I keep my seatbelt on throughout the flight.
I always like to be the last on, I never like sitting on the plane any longer than I need to be!!
I always like to be the last on, I never like sitting on the plane any longer than I need to be!!
Jim H said:
This is a question more directed to the pilots on here, Mabs U-Boat et al. Who always provide fascinating insight and equally reassurance on such matters.
Are you guys, in your own experience, encountering more instances of severe turbulence?
As reported in more of the MSP, they are linking Clear Air Turbulence with global warming - and allegedly it will only get worse.
Or is much the same as ever? And more akin to hysteria-like 24hr news reporting.
I can also understand if you wouldn’t wish to comment in the line of your profession.
It definitely feels like it’s getting worse. I’ve been flying the same types of route network for over 20 years and that‘s how it feels to me. I don’t know if we have empirical evidence to back up this view though. I think the other pilots I know tend to think that also. Are you guys, in your own experience, encountering more instances of severe turbulence?
As reported in more of the MSP, they are linking Clear Air Turbulence with global warming - and allegedly it will only get worse.
Or is much the same as ever? And more akin to hysteria-like 24hr news reporting.
I can also understand if you wouldn’t wish to comment in the line of your profession.
I’m flying aircraft now that are much better in turbulence also but it still feels like it’s getting worse, ie more regular and more intense.
The good news is that although it’s generally bumpier (imho of course) there’s less people getting hurt as (for us) the aircraft were operating, are better at handling it.
I think also that passengers are more aware of turbulence and tend to keep their belts fastened and don’t just ignore it and think they know best.
I don’t particularly worry about turbulence though. It’s more of an inconvenience generally than something I’d be concerned about. If it’s bumpy and everyone’s sitting down and strapped in and I can see that I’m not going to fly into a thunderstorm or whatever then I’m fine with it.
I worry more if it’s a bit bumpy but the crew are still out working etc. then it’s more likely someone could get hurt if it gets worse. The crew understand turbulence and the pilots responsibilities but sometimes there might be a bit of a want to get their services done especially on a night flight and then they can get the lights out and go to their bunks etc.
Abbott said:
Eric Mc said:
Mountain related turbulence can be savage. This is what Mount Fuji did to a BOAC Boeing 707 back in 1966 -
What are we looking at here?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_911
Brother D said:
That is the doomed airliner that got caught by severe winds and/or actions that resulted in the rear tail fin being torn off
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_911
Interesting - had it not been for a last minute change of plans regarding that flight, we may never have had the James Bond film franchise.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_911
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: Media reporting it dropped 6000 feet in "a few minutes".
How much of that is likely to be turbulence v controlled (can't think of a better word) flight to deal with it?
The very worst turbulence might drop an aircraft a couple hundred feet. 6000 feet will be the pilot trying to get away from it by changing altitude.How much of that is likely to be turbulence v controlled (can't think of a better word) flight to deal with it?
Jim H said:
Abc321 said:
I am a nervous flyer, I'm fine if its smooth, its juts the turbulence I don't like.
I like to think I am relatively intelligent and rational person, HOWEVER as silly as it sounds (and I know it is silly), my fear is that the stress on the wings will force them to break and we will plummet to our death.
As another poster has said, this (for me atleast) is reassuring that my idiotic thinking is exactly that.
My last flight a month ago, i sat next to an aircraft engineer in the RAF and he said they are tested ten-fold more than they will ever encounter in real world conditions. Which I'm sure they are! It doesn't change my anxiety building up this week, for Saturday when I go away next!
Hi if you do a Google search for something like Pistonheads- Turbulence how serious is it?I like to think I am relatively intelligent and rational person, HOWEVER as silly as it sounds (and I know it is silly), my fear is that the stress on the wings will force them to break and we will plummet to our death.
As another poster has said, this (for me atleast) is reassuring that my idiotic thinking is exactly that.
My last flight a month ago, i sat next to an aircraft engineer in the RAF and he said they are tested ten-fold more than they will ever encounter in real world conditions. Which I'm sure they are! It doesn't change my anxiety building up this week, for Saturday when I go away next!
You’ll probably find my old thread, the question of wing flex was addressed very well on it. I’m sure it will alleviate your fears.
Edit. Having said that? There were a few horror stories on that thread from other contributors and their experiences of Turbulence. Maybe not look up if you are nervous flyer!
Edited by Jim H on Tuesday 21st May 12:52
https://youtu.be/--LTYRTKV_A?si=8lSg87sbaxaMDbsl
clio007 said:
I'm not in aviation but is it called turbulence when a plane dramatically drops so much that it makes people's head smash through the air vents?
Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
I'm really curious as to what error you think might cause that. It sounds exactly what turbulence is like, which is why people are told to wear their seatbelts during the filght.Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
Ken_Code said:
clio007 said:
I'm not in aviation but is it called turbulence when a plane dramatically drops so much that it makes people's head smash through the air vents?
Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
I'm really curious as to what error you think might cause that. It sounds exactly what turbulence is like, which is why people are told to wear their seatbelts during the filght.Sounds more like some other issue: pilot error?
It's like the worse turbulence I've ever encountered which was terrifying x 100.
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