Mr Bates vs The Post Office
Discussion
vaud said:
Unreal said:
I can tell you from very wide experience that it's just like you're seeing here in the NHS. They have an unshakeable belief they won't be found out. Bullies, incompetents and shysters dominate the ranks. This is a look behind the curtain.
Agreed. Most very large Govt departments and "institutions" AnotherClarkey said:
vaud said:
Unreal said:
I can tell you from very wide experience that it's just like you're seeing here in the NHS. They have an unshakeable belief they won't be found out. Bullies, incompetents and shysters dominate the ranks. This is a look behind the curtain.
Agreed. Most very large Govt departments and "institutions" Dominic Casciani (BBC) Home and legal correspondent
Paula Vennells came to the inquiry with a staggeringly long witness statement and her position seems to be that she was let down by others, but should have dug more deeply.
That may be the story she wants to tell – but the fact is that in any public inquiry or courtroom, the simple story that dominates is often the one that a skilful barrister steers the witness towards accepting.
So Jason Beer, the inquiry’s lead counsel – and a master of detail – simply ignored Vennell’s statement to cut through with simple and explosive opening questions. His first shot was a huge salvo: Had she been the unluckiest boss ever?
This is the kind of question that stops a confident witness in their tracks – and a fearful one will visibly wither.
They reach for their own simple story in response but, immersed in their detail, rather than the bigger picture, they don’t always know how to tell it.
Paula Vennells came to the inquiry with a staggeringly long witness statement and her position seems to be that she was let down by others, but should have dug more deeply.
That may be the story she wants to tell – but the fact is that in any public inquiry or courtroom, the simple story that dominates is often the one that a skilful barrister steers the witness towards accepting.
So Jason Beer, the inquiry’s lead counsel – and a master of detail – simply ignored Vennell’s statement to cut through with simple and explosive opening questions. His first shot was a huge salvo: Had she been the unluckiest boss ever?
This is the kind of question that stops a confident witness in their tracks – and a fearful one will visibly wither.
They reach for their own simple story in response but, immersed in their detail, rather than the bigger picture, they don’t always know how to tell it.
Unreal said:
AnotherClarkey said:
vaud said:
Unreal said:
I can tell you from very wide experience that it's just like you're seeing here in the NHS. They have an unshakeable belief they won't be found out. Bullies, incompetents and shysters dominate the ranks. This is a look behind the curtain.
Agreed. Most very large Govt departments and "institutions" eliot said:
How can she claim she didn't know they did their own prosecutions - simply not credible. I bet beer cant wait to dig in...
I thought absolutely everyone in the organisation would have known about that. When I worked a Christmas in a Royal Mail mail centre in 1999 (so back when it was part of the same group as the PO), it was covered in the 1 day induction course we got, basically as a dire warning that anyone nicking mail would be caught and that the consequences were more severe than just dismissal.AnotherClarkey said:
Unreal said:
AnotherClarkey said:
vaud said:
Unreal said:
I can tell you from very wide experience that it's just like you're seeing here in the NHS. They have an unshakeable belief they won't be found out. Bullies, incompetents and shysters dominate the ranks. This is a look behind the curtain.
Agreed. Most very large Govt departments and "institutions" Badly run companies fail and are swallowed up or liquidated.
Badly run public sector organisations give CBEs to their bosses......
Unreal said:
AnotherClarkey said:
I think the caliber of PO management on display here is indicative of the general quality of management in this country. No wonder we are in the state we are in.
I can tell you from very wide experience that it's just like you're seeing here in the NHS. They have an unshakeable belief they won't be found out. Bullies, incompetents and shysters dominate the ranks. This is a look behind the curtain. Those that do seem to get sent off to NHS England before retiring.
Although Sir David Nicholson is still going strong still working in the NHS 10 years after retiring with best part of a Million pound pay off and substantial pension
Bonefish Blues said:
I suspect there was indeed an element of 'Paula doesn't want to hear X' in this. Her question before the Select Cttee which predicated the answer she wanted to hear re remote access comes to mind.
She only wanted to hear about how to make the issues go away not what the issues were and how folk were going to solve them.Unreal said:
AnotherClarkey said:
vaud said:
Unreal said:
I can tell you from very wide experience that it's just like you're seeing here in the NHS. They have an unshakeable belief they won't be found out. Bullies, incompetents and shysters dominate the ranks. This is a look behind the curtain.
Agreed. Most very large Govt departments and "institutions" As we're into the lunch break now, I was just reflecting on this whole enquiry, and was thinking how impressive Jason Beer is.
I know it's his job, he gets paid very well, and he has a lot of experience, and no doubt a lot of help in the preparation, but unlike the witnesses who turn up for a few hours to (in this case) 3 days, he's there every single day and asking detailed, pertinent, intelligent, and very probing questions for hours at a time, day after day, and causing major problems for some of the witnesses, some of who themselves are experienced legal professionals.
It's one of the factors that make this enquiry so interesting to watch, in addition to the obvious overriding point of wanting to see something moving towards some kind of justice for the SPMs.
I know it's his job, he gets paid very well, and he has a lot of experience, and no doubt a lot of help in the preparation, but unlike the witnesses who turn up for a few hours to (in this case) 3 days, he's there every single day and asking detailed, pertinent, intelligent, and very probing questions for hours at a time, day after day, and causing major problems for some of the witnesses, some of who themselves are experienced legal professionals.
It's one of the factors that make this enquiry so interesting to watch, in addition to the obvious overriding point of wanting to see something moving towards some kind of justice for the SPMs.
Is lying to parliament the same as lying in court/under oath? Is she therefore guilty of a crime?
Shocking watching her today. Like everyone else, excuses, no remorse, blame someone else. If you took the witnesses at face value then nothing happened, nothing went wrong and no one is to blame.
I really hope criminal prosecutions follow if possible.
Shocking watching her today. Like everyone else, excuses, no remorse, blame someone else. If you took the witnesses at face value then nothing happened, nothing went wrong and no one is to blame.
I really hope criminal prosecutions follow if possible.
You can almost see the cogs whirring as she puts together an answer she thinks Mr Beer will accept! Wasn't it Angela V who was described as a less than credible witness before? Think she's lost her title today! Oh, and she's using the waterworks way too much! ![weeping](/inc/images/weeping.gif)
![weeping](/inc/images/weeping.gif)
Maybe someone should point out they've almost had one 'rain stopped play' today!
![weeping](/inc/images/weeping.gif)
![weeping](/inc/images/weeping.gif)
![weeping](/inc/images/weeping.gif)
C n C said:
As we're into the lunch break now, I was just reflecting on this whole enquiry, and was thinking how impressive Jason Beer is.
I know it's his job, he gets paid very well, and he has a lot of experience, and no doubt a lot of help in the preparation, but unlike the witnesses who turn up for a few hours to (in this case) 3 days, he's there every single day and asking detailed, pertinent, intelligent, and very probing questions for hours at a time, day after day, and causing major problems for some of the witnesses, some of who themselves are experienced legal professionals.
It's one of the factors that make this enquiry so interesting to watch, in addition to the obvious overriding point of wanting to see something moving towards some kind of justice for the SPMs.
He has a huge fan in Fenny Compton where Sky are based today, one of the SPM's just interviewed thanking him and his team for their excellent work, she's met them all. It was obvious she was very appreciative.I know it's his job, he gets paid very well, and he has a lot of experience, and no doubt a lot of help in the preparation, but unlike the witnesses who turn up for a few hours to (in this case) 3 days, he's there every single day and asking detailed, pertinent, intelligent, and very probing questions for hours at a time, day after day, and causing major problems for some of the witnesses, some of who themselves are experienced legal professionals.
It's one of the factors that make this enquiry so interesting to watch, in addition to the obvious overriding point of wanting to see something moving towards some kind of justice for the SPMs.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
An often repeated myth. One not remotely true of big multi-nationals.
In a big listed multinational, at least in very competitive industries the natural competitiveness places pressure on companies to be efficient. And if investors think that they aren't delivering enough value they will sell, apply pressure to the board (for larger institutional investors) or an activist investor will start to take a position (see Paul Singer et al) Gassing Station | TV, Film, Video Streaming & Radio | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff