Discussion
Bighoose said:
Glassman said:
Surely more down to who would have an XL Bully? Same thing happened (in terms of owners were using them as a show of strength) with Pitbulls and even Staffies, no?
No Quite a number of the deaths have been decent owners. The guy up North in Aberdeen, or maybe Dundee, was an experienced dog handler. It's partly the owners, but the breed of dog is very much part of the problem. Open your eyes.
Glassman said:
I'm happy to be educated on the bits I have missed or don't know about. Telling me to open my eyes is inferring that I'm somehow blinkered. Ease up on that attitude. You have an opinion as do I. You might be better informed than me, so help me see what formed your opinion. Not down for this kind of discussion.
That's a fair call out, sorry about the tone. I just find this issue incredibly frustrating. The owners are clearly an issue but you only have to look at the size and power of the dogs and the injury's they cause to understand that the breed is a major problem.You've asked me to help you see what formed my opinion. If you do nothing else read about the injury's to the lad Jack Lis and Ian Price, and then google Xl Bully Kimbo to find out what these dogs are bred from and why they are so unpredictable.
Bighoose said:
That's a fair call out, sorry about the tone. I just find this issue incredibly frustrating. The owners are clearly an issue but you only have to look at the size and power of the dogs and the injury's they cause to understand that the breed is a major problem.
You've asked me to help you see what formed my opinion. If you do nothing else read about the injury's to the lad Jack Lis and Ian Price, and then google Xl Bully Kimbo to find out what these dogs are bred from and why they are so unpredictable.
Let's move on...You've asked me to help you see what formed my opinion. If you do nothing else read about the injury's to the lad Jack Lis and Ian Price, and then google Xl Bully Kimbo to find out what these dogs are bred from and why they are so unpredictable.
My post was kind of in agreement with you when I said I could see the power and devilish eyes. I've always been convinced that bad dogs are from bad owners. It seems XL Bullies only appeal to stereotypes, as the name might suggest.
In all the tragic cases, were any in loving homes? Is there any evidence because it seems (to me) perhaps not? This is what I'm missing.
Glassman said:
Let's move on...
My post was kind of in agreement with you when I said I could see the power and devilish eyes. I've always been convinced that bad dogs are from bad owners. It seems XL Bullies only appeal to stereotypes, as the name might suggest.
In all the tragic cases, were any in loving homes? Is there any evidence because it seems (to me) perhaps not? This is what I'm missing.
From the Another Dog Attack thread, this should give you some insight to nature vs nurture in some XL bullies.My post was kind of in agreement with you when I said I could see the power and devilish eyes. I've always been convinced that bad dogs are from bad owners. It seems XL Bullies only appeal to stereotypes, as the name might suggest.
In all the tragic cases, were any in loving homes? Is there any evidence because it seems (to me) perhaps not? This is what I'm missing.
m4tti said:
I can see the BBC News have an article on the most recent XL bully death, and some “well wisher” local dog trainer has popped up talking about “how she helps local bully owners”.
It’s fairly tedious and repetitive rhetoric from these types about the people needing help.
With this breed it really isn’t, it’s a result of poor line breeding and genetics. You’d think a “dog trainer” would have a simple of grasp of all this.
This is a 10 minute read, but covers the history of these dogs quite well and how the current situation has evolved in the uk.
https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/#...
It’s fairly tedious and repetitive rhetoric from these types about the people needing help.
With this breed it really isn’t, it’s a result of poor line breeding and genetics. You’d think a “dog trainer” would have a simple of grasp of all this.
This is a 10 minute read, but covers the history of these dogs quite well and how the current situation has evolved in the uk.
https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/#...
Glassman said:
Let's move on...
My post was kind of in agreement with you when I said I could see the power and devilish eyes. I've always been convinced that bad dogs are from bad owners. It seems XL Bullies only appeal to stereotypes, as the name might suggest.
In all the tragic cases, were any in loving homes? Is there any evidence because it seems (to me) perhaps not? This is what I'm missing.
And to be frank I'm missing why it's important. These dogs are dangerous and a risk to human life. We shouldn't have to worry about whether the risk is being mitigated by making sure they are lovingly attended to. Even a loved and cared for dog can experience pain, or have an fit, or have it's tail pulled by a small child, or be frightened by fireworks, the postman or an unexpected visitor to the house. Or any one of millions of possible situations. We shouldn't have to worry about them being like an unexploded bomb. The XL bully lobby believe the dogs have a right to unrestricted life and they have a right to enjoy the dogs. They believe the rest of us have to live with the risk, and the injury's, and the deaths. I believe the dogs shouldn't exist in our society and the lady today and the other 16 or so people killed by them since 2021 should be alive. My post was kind of in agreement with you when I said I could see the power and devilish eyes. I've always been convinced that bad dogs are from bad owners. It seems XL Bullies only appeal to stereotypes, as the name might suggest.
In all the tragic cases, were any in loving homes? Is there any evidence because it seems (to me) perhaps not? This is what I'm missing.
Bighoose said:
And to be frank I'm missing why it's important. These dogs are dangerous and a risk to human life. We shouldn't have to worry about whether the risk is being mitigated by making sure they are lovingly attended to. Even a loved and cared for dog can experience pain, or have an fit, or have it's tail pulled by a small child, or be frightened by fireworks, the postman or an unexpected visitor to the house. Or any one of millions of possible situations. We shouldn't have to worry about them being like an unexploded bomb. The XL bully lobby believe the dogs have a right to unrestricted life and they have a right to enjoy the dogs. They believe the rest of us have to live with the risk, and the injury's, and the deaths. I believe the dogs shouldn't exist in our society and the lady today and the other 16 or so people killed by them since 2021 should be alive.
Well said. I took disagree that society should live with the risk of them.Cull needed imo. There will be more deaths otherwise.
eldar said:
Glassman said:
Let's move on...
My post was kind of in agreement with you when I said I could see the power and devilish eyes. I've always been convinced that bad dogs are from bad owners. It seems XL Bullies only appeal to stereotypes, as the name might suggest.
In all the tragic cases, were any in loving homes? Is there any evidence because it seems (to me) perhaps not? This is what I'm missing.
From the Another Dog Attack thread, this should give you some insight to nature vs nurture in some XL bullies.My post was kind of in agreement with you when I said I could see the power and devilish eyes. I've always been convinced that bad dogs are from bad owners. It seems XL Bullies only appeal to stereotypes, as the name might suggest.
In all the tragic cases, were any in loving homes? Is there any evidence because it seems (to me) perhaps not? This is what I'm missing.
m4tti said:
I can see the BBC News have an article on the most recent XL bully death, and some “well wisher” local dog trainer has popped up talking about “how she helps local bully owners”.
It’s fairly tedious and repetitive rhetoric from these types about the people needing help.
With this breed it really isn’t, it’s a result of poor line breeding and genetics. You’d think a “dog trainer” would have a simple of grasp of all this.
This is a 10 minute read, but covers the history of these dogs quite well and how the current situation has evolved in the uk.
https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/#...
It’s fairly tedious and repetitive rhetoric from these types about the people needing help.
With this breed it really isn’t, it’s a result of poor line breeding and genetics. You’d think a “dog trainer” would have a simple of grasp of all this.
This is a 10 minute read, but covers the history of these dogs quite well and how the current situation has evolved in the uk.
https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/#...
The Article said:
Breeders have a lot to answer for. To say breeding in the UK has been bad is an understatement, it has been criminal. The breeding of dogs with very recent fighting lines. The breeding of dogs with problematic bloodlines on both sides. Someone needs to be held accountable for this.
I don't know what the average stud fee might be, but one Bully, named MBB King Marshall was in high demand at £10k a go. Owners? Humans.
The Article said:
What evidence do we have about their behaviour? Surprisingly, nothing. No academic study that we could find included a dataset featuring the Bully XL or American Bully breed. They could be the most docile breed or they could be the most violent. For anyone to claim that the science is conclusive enough to support a stance against breed-specific legislation (BSL) is profoundly misleading.
Absolutely no denying the dog's power and size. They're immensely strong and having one mentally snap is deadly. I can't defend XL Bullies but I think the article does point at a reason why they are a problem. Any dog can be dangerous.
I don't like the cross breeding of dogs which is how the Bully has come about. There are other dogs which are bred, sold and bought for the wrong reasons.
Glassman said:
Absolutely no denying the dog's power and size. They're immensely strong and having one mentally snap is deadly. I can't defend XL Bullies but I think the article does point at a reason why they are a problem.
Any dog can be dangerous.
I don't like the cross breeding of dogs which is how the Bully has come about. There are other dogs which are bred, sold and bought for the wrong reasons.
The "any dog can be dangerous" argument seems to come up again and again in discussion and debate about XL bullys. It's irrelevant. Look at the UK dog attack fatality statistics, the dogs that are killing people are mostly Bully types, and nearly all are XL Bullys. People aren't losing thier lives or suffering life changing injury's due to Labs or Spaniels. That's just not happening.Any dog can be dangerous.
I don't like the cross breeding of dogs which is how the Bully has come about. There are other dogs which are bred, sold and bought for the wrong reasons.
Risk=probability of event*consequence, yeah? The consequence of being attacked by one of these is horrific compared to other dogs, so the risk they represent is much higher.
Got a Shiba Inu pup last year as my first ever dog. Socialised him properly and he met plenty of other people and dogs while out, made his regular friends I'll let him off lead with. His temperament is just like his parents. Totally chill and playful. Just as happy to play as he is to sit on a bench with me watching the World go by. Only upset if his OCD kicks in at home and I move something or someone comes over he doesn't know but that's fine. He'll play with any dog that wants to and I judge that the other owner wants to allow it. His best friends are boxers and they've taught him loads on the play etiquette. He's even played with a cane corso and an akita, both 5x his weight. I was wary about them but once they see it's play, the owners were tidy and they see the Shiba is OK it good fun for them.
Bullys though I say away from. Walking a few days ago past a house and one charged full pelt at the gate to try and get to my dog. My Shiba just looks at it thinking it's an idiot and walked on but it's the first truly dangerous dog he'd come across. Out of all the other breeds we've come across, the ones I wouldn't have thought were bad previously are often Labradors, retrievers and collies. Could well be the lock down effect and lack of any training and socialising. Labs often don't know their own strength and owners struggle with the mass of one. Met a few pushing 45-50kg. Collies can be brilliant or totally mental and get spooked by almost anything. It's my first dog and while every dog is different it's what I've found over the last 7mths or so seeing other dogs.
Bullys though I say away from. Walking a few days ago past a house and one charged full pelt at the gate to try and get to my dog. My Shiba just looks at it thinking it's an idiot and walked on but it's the first truly dangerous dog he'd come across. Out of all the other breeds we've come across, the ones I wouldn't have thought were bad previously are often Labradors, retrievers and collies. Could well be the lock down effect and lack of any training and socialising. Labs often don't know their own strength and owners struggle with the mass of one. Met a few pushing 45-50kg. Collies can be brilliant or totally mental and get spooked by almost anything. It's my first dog and while every dog is different it's what I've found over the last 7mths or so seeing other dogs.
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
abzmike said:
Youforreal. said:
Yep, ladders too, killing way to many a year imo.
Going up a ladder is the choice an individual makes. Being attacked by someone else’s dog isn’t.
Youforreal. said:
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
abzmike said:
Youforreal. said:
Yep, ladders too, killing way to many a year imo.
Going up a ladder is the choice an individual makes. Being attacked by someone else’s dog isn’t.Its not about not liking something, its about removing unacceptable risk.
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
abzmike said:
Youforreal. said:
Yep, ladders too, killing way to many a year imo.
Going up a ladder is the choice an individual makes. Being attacked by someone else’s dog isn’t.Its not about not liking something, its about removing unacceptable risk.
Youforreal. said:
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
abzmike said:
Youforreal. said:
Yep, ladders too, killing way to many a year imo.
Going up a ladder is the choice an individual makes. Being attacked by someone else’s dog isn’t.Its not about not liking something, its about removing unacceptable risk.
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
bmwmike said:
Youforreal. said:
abzmike said:
Youforreal. said:
Yep, ladders too, killing way to many a year imo.
Going up a ladder is the choice an individual makes. Being attacked by someone else’s dog isn’t.Its not about not liking something, its about removing unacceptable risk.
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