RE: Sensational Alpina B12 (E38) for sale
Discussion
McGee_22 said:
The E38 Alpina B12 5.7 litre engine is based on the E38 750i 5.4 litre engine and is bored out to find the extra 300cc's and 61bhp extra.
The E38 B12 5.7 engine is hugely robust and one UK car has over 250k miles and some continental cars have 400k and 500k km's on them.
The E38 B12 6.0 engine is based on the B12 5.7 engine but stroked to find another 300cc's and 43 more bhp. This stroked design led to pistons with necessarily very short piston skirts, which when coupled to the 5/30w engine oil that Alpina originally specified means scored bores and sometimes damaged pistons, but always hugely increased oil consumption. From forums it is very easy to work out that nearly half of all the B12 6.0 cars have had hugely costly engine rebuilds, sometimes under warranty, sometimes not.
Add to this the increased torque from the 6.0 engine and the fact that owners have historically tended to try and 'show' all that power and torque for full bore take-offs and you also have a much increased incidence of gearbox rebuilds on the 6.0 cars, which is complicated by the fact the cars used two slightly different gearboxes so you or your mechanic won't know what to order to fix it until is completely in bits in front of you.
Alpina now recommend only 10/60w oil for all their V12 engines though it remains to be seen whether this will allow the 6.0 engines to continue into high mileages without any issues like the 5.7's.
The E31 B12 5.7 engine was based on the BMW 850CSi 5.6 litre engine and I believe is as similarly robust as the E38 5.7 engine - there are several very high mileage E31 B12 5.7 cars and I was lucky enough to chat to the owner of the very last one made a few years ago, number 57, which had over 350,000 km's on the original engine.
Pids please The E38 B12 5.7 engine is hugely robust and one UK car has over 250k miles and some continental cars have 400k and 500k km's on them.
The E38 B12 6.0 engine is based on the B12 5.7 engine but stroked to find another 300cc's and 43 more bhp. This stroked design led to pistons with necessarily very short piston skirts, which when coupled to the 5/30w engine oil that Alpina originally specified means scored bores and sometimes damaged pistons, but always hugely increased oil consumption. From forums it is very easy to work out that nearly half of all the B12 6.0 cars have had hugely costly engine rebuilds, sometimes under warranty, sometimes not.
Add to this the increased torque from the 6.0 engine and the fact that owners have historically tended to try and 'show' all that power and torque for full bore take-offs and you also have a much increased incidence of gearbox rebuilds on the 6.0 cars, which is complicated by the fact the cars used two slightly different gearboxes so you or your mechanic won't know what to order to fix it until is completely in bits in front of you.
Alpina now recommend only 10/60w oil for all their V12 engines though it remains to be seen whether this will allow the 6.0 engines to continue into high mileages without any issues like the 5.7's.
The E31 B12 5.7 engine was based on the BMW 850CSi 5.6 litre engine and I believe is as similarly robust as the E38 5.7 engine - there are several very high mileage E31 B12 5.7 cars and I was lucky enough to chat to the owner of the very last one made a few years ago, number 57, which had over 350,000 km's on the original engine.
McGee_22 said:
It was in a sorry state then, hasn't run for years and hasn't been restored. Another car that will eventually be a 'barn find' and listed for more a silly price that doesn't take into account the restoration costs.
And those in the know would prefer the 5.7 engine over the 6.0 anyway.
Was it? Man, externally it looked superb in that (Oxford?) green.And those in the know would prefer the 5.7 engine over the 6.0 anyway.
From what I've heard, the V12 was never a particularly reliable (or cheap to run) engine so if I had the money I'd go for the ultimate one. Big bills await either way
Edited by Bladedancer on Wednesday 25th January 15:21
Bladedancer said:
McGee_22 said:
It was in a sorry state then, hasn't run for years and hasn't been restored. Another car that will eventually be a 'barn find' and listed for more a silly price that doesn't take into account the restoration costs.
And those in the know would prefer the 5.7 engine over the 6.0 anyway.
Was it? Man, externally it looked superb in that (Oxford?) green.And those in the know would prefer the 5.7 engine over the 6.0 anyway.
From what I've heard, the V12 was never a particularly reliable (or cheap to run) engine so if I had the money I'd go for the ultimate one. Big bills await either way
Edited by Bladedancer on Wednesday 25th January 15:21
https://www.alpina-archive.com/?p=5239&nmt=B12...
Bladedancer said:
Was it? Man, externally it looked superb in that (Oxford?) green.
From what I've heard, the V12 was never a particularly reliable (or cheap to run) engine so if I had the money I'd go for the ultimate one. Big bills await either way
Oxford green metallic? I have a Oxford green 2 metallic Z3 s65, is that the same color?From what I've heard, the V12 was never a particularly reliable (or cheap to run) engine so if I had the money I'd go for the ultimate one. Big bills await either way
I love the color.
McGee_22 said:
The E38 Alpina B12 5.7 litre engine is based on the E38 750i 5.4 litre engine and is bored out to find the extra 300cc's and 61bhp extra.
The E38 B12 5.7 engine is hugely robust and one UK car has over 250k miles and some continental cars have 400k and 500k km's on them.
The E38 B12 6.0 engine is based on the B12 5.7 engine but stroked to find another 300cc's and 43 more bhp. This stroked design led to pistons with necessarily very short piston skirts, which when coupled to the 5/30w engine oil that Alpina originally specified means scored bores and sometimes damaged pistons, but always hugely increased oil consumption. From forums it is very easy to work out that nearly half of all the B12 6.0 cars have had hugely costly engine rebuilds, sometimes under warranty, sometimes not.
Add to this the increased torque from the 6.0 engine and the fact that owners have historically tended to try and 'show' all that power and torque for full bore take-offs and you also have a much increased incidence of gearbox rebuilds on the 6.0 cars, which is complicated by the fact the cars used two slightly different gearboxes so you or your mechanic won't know what to order to fix it until is completely in bits in front of you.
Alpina now recommend only 10/60w oil for all their V12 engines though it remains to be seen whether this will allow the 6.0 engines to continue into high mileages without any issues like the 5.7's.
The E31 B12 5.7 engine was based on the BMW 850CSi 5.6 litre engine and I believe is as similarly robust as the E38 5.7 engine - there are several very high mileage E31 B12 5.7 cars and I was lucky enough to chat to the owner of the very last one made a few years ago, number 57, which had over 350,000 km's on the original engine.
The 6.0 is also bored out compared to 5.7.The E38 B12 5.7 engine is hugely robust and one UK car has over 250k miles and some continental cars have 400k and 500k km's on them.
The E38 B12 6.0 engine is based on the B12 5.7 engine but stroked to find another 300cc's and 43 more bhp. This stroked design led to pistons with necessarily very short piston skirts, which when coupled to the 5/30w engine oil that Alpina originally specified means scored bores and sometimes damaged pistons, but always hugely increased oil consumption. From forums it is very easy to work out that nearly half of all the B12 6.0 cars have had hugely costly engine rebuilds, sometimes under warranty, sometimes not.
Add to this the increased torque from the 6.0 engine and the fact that owners have historically tended to try and 'show' all that power and torque for full bore take-offs and you also have a much increased incidence of gearbox rebuilds on the 6.0 cars, which is complicated by the fact the cars used two slightly different gearboxes so you or your mechanic won't know what to order to fix it until is completely in bits in front of you.
Alpina now recommend only 10/60w oil for all their V12 engines though it remains to be seen whether this will allow the 6.0 engines to continue into high mileages without any issues like the 5.7's.
The E31 B12 5.7 engine was based on the BMW 850CSi 5.6 litre engine and I believe is as similarly robust as the E38 5.7 engine - there are several very high mileage E31 B12 5.7 cars and I was lucky enough to chat to the owner of the very last one made a few years ago, number 57, which had over 350,000 km's on the original engine.
5.7 - 86 mm * 81 mm
6.0 - 86.4 mm x 86 mm(incidentally, same bore as the S54 engine, but that is an cast iron block)
The bore spacing on the M70/M73 engines is 91 mm, so the walls are pretty thin and I'm guessing the headgasket might also be a problem on the 6.0
GTRene said:
Bladedancer said:
Was it? Man, externally it looked superb in that (Oxford?) green.
From what I've heard, the V12 was never a particularly reliable (or cheap to run) engine so if I had the money I'd go for the ultimate one. Big bills await either way
Oxford green metallic? I have a Oxford green 2 metallic Z3 s65, is that the same color?From what I've heard, the V12 was never a particularly reliable (or cheap to run) engine so if I had the money I'd go for the ultimate one. Big bills await either way
I love the color.
McGee_22 said:
Bladedancer said:
McGee_22 said:
It was in a sorry state then, hasn't run for years and hasn't been restored. Another car that will eventually be a 'barn find' and listed for more a silly price that doesn't take into account the restoration costs.
And those in the know would prefer the 5.7 engine over the 6.0 anyway.
Was it? Man, externally it looked superb in that (Oxford?) green.And those in the know would prefer the 5.7 engine over the 6.0 anyway.
From what I've heard, the V12 was never a particularly reliable (or cheap to run) engine so if I had the money I'd go for the ultimate one. Big bills await either way
Edited by Bladedancer on Wednesday 25th January 15:21
https://www.alpina-archive.com/?p=5239&nmt=B12...
McGee_22 said:
The E38 Alpina B12 5.7 litre engine is based on the E38 750i 5.4 litre engine and is bored out to find the extra 300cc's and 61bhp extra.
The E38 B12 5.7 engine is hugely robust and one UK car has over 250k miles and some continental cars have 400k and 500k km's on them.
The E38 B12 6.0 engine is based on the B12 5.7 engine but stroked to find another 300cc's and 43 more bhp. This stroked design led to pistons with necessarily very short piston skirts, which when coupled to the 5/30w engine oil that Alpina originally specified means scored bores and sometimes damaged pistons, but always hugely increased oil consumption. From forums it is very easy to work out that nearly half of all the B12 6.0 cars have had hugely costly engine rebuilds, sometimes under warranty, sometimes not.
Add to this the increased torque from the 6.0 engine and the fact that owners have historically tended to try and 'show' all that power and torque for full bore take-offs and you also have a much increased incidence of gearbox rebuilds on the 6.0 cars, which is complicated by the fact the cars used two slightly different gearboxes so you or your mechanic won't know what to order to fix it until is completely in bits in front of you.
Alpina now recommend only 10/60w oil for all their V12 engines though it remains to be seen whether this will allow the 6.0 engines to continue into high mileages without any issues like the 5.7's.
The E31 B12 5.7 engine was based on the BMW 850CSi 5.6 litre engine and I believe is as similarly robust as the E38 5.7 engine - there are several very high mileage E31 B12 5.7 cars and I was lucky enough to chat to the owner of the very last one made a few years ago, number 57, which had over 350,000 km's on the original engine.
Good to see you still have the love, and the fleet, K. Lovely B12 in the article, and your fleet is still epic. Stay fine. Love: Fred & WilmaThe E38 B12 5.7 engine is hugely robust and one UK car has over 250k miles and some continental cars have 400k and 500k km's on them.
The E38 B12 6.0 engine is based on the B12 5.7 engine but stroked to find another 300cc's and 43 more bhp. This stroked design led to pistons with necessarily very short piston skirts, which when coupled to the 5/30w engine oil that Alpina originally specified means scored bores and sometimes damaged pistons, but always hugely increased oil consumption. From forums it is very easy to work out that nearly half of all the B12 6.0 cars have had hugely costly engine rebuilds, sometimes under warranty, sometimes not.
Add to this the increased torque from the 6.0 engine and the fact that owners have historically tended to try and 'show' all that power and torque for full bore take-offs and you also have a much increased incidence of gearbox rebuilds on the 6.0 cars, which is complicated by the fact the cars used two slightly different gearboxes so you or your mechanic won't know what to order to fix it until is completely in bits in front of you.
Alpina now recommend only 10/60w oil for all their V12 engines though it remains to be seen whether this will allow the 6.0 engines to continue into high mileages without any issues like the 5.7's.
The E31 B12 5.7 engine was based on the BMW 850CSi 5.6 litre engine and I believe is as similarly robust as the E38 5.7 engine - there are several very high mileage E31 B12 5.7 cars and I was lucky enough to chat to the owner of the very last one made a few years ago, number 57, which had over 350,000 km's on the original engine.
Bladedancer said:
Looks familiar. Though I have to say that parked on a busy street between other cars it looked miles better than in these pictures.
The last accurate photos were when it was listed on eBay- it was a mess inside and out and a non-runner too. I know where it went and the owner got it running in a fashion but has stored it with a few other choice cars he might have intended to restore but probably never will.smithers-jones said:
Good to see you still have the love, and the fleet, K. Lovely B12 in the article, and your fleet is still epic. Stay fine. Love: Fred & Wilma
Took me second to work out who you are Fred but I got there in the end - say Hi to Wilma and best wishes to you both. E38 and E39 are now totally sorted and restored- E34 is next for small remedial paintwork then everything will be up to the standard of my M635.
McGee_22 said:
Bladedancer said:
Looks familiar. Though I have to say that parked on a busy street between other cars it looked miles better than in these pictures.
The last accurate photos were when it was listed on eBay- it was a mess inside and out and a non-runner too. I know where it went and the owner got it running in a fashion but has stored it with a few other choice cars he might have intended to restore but probably never will.smithers-jones said:
Good to see you still have the love, and the fleet, K. Lovely B12 in the article, and your fleet is still epic. Stay fine. Love: Fred & Wilma
Took me second to work out who you are Fred but I got there in the end - say Hi to Wilma and best wishes to you both. E38 and E39 are now totally sorted and restored- E34 is next for small remedial paintwork then everything will be up to the standard of my M635.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
. You have a wonderful collection, and it's great to know they're well appreciated and cared for.
It’s not all roses- it’s cost me a packet and has been a sometimes seemingly senseless labour of love over the last few years, and along the way I have sadly neglected a 635CSi which I have owned for well over 25 years. It turned 40 last year so I sent off my application to DVLA for classic vehicle status today which will see a triple freedom from road tax, ULEZ and MoT’s.It might be more of a rolling restoration back to decent running condition as I haven’t the funds, faith or nerve for another full E24 restoration- one was enough.
Back on B12 thread topic though, there is an E38 6.0 and an E31 5.0 up for auction soon - both lhd and nowhere near the condition of this threads car but it will be interesting what price they get to.
Edit to add, E38 B12 6.0 number 42;
https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2023-2...
E31 B12 5.0 number 21;
https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2023-2...
Edited by McGee_22 on Friday 27th January 10:35
Chubbyross said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
RedChimaeraTom said:
I had a 728i M-Sport, 2000, in Cosmos Black with cream leather interior. Still probably the most solidly engineered car I’ve ever owned. X382 DBL, where are you now?….
No way.....I believe it was you who sold it to me! Would have been around 2011 I think? I sold it to another PHer and I believe it is still going. I'm pretty sure the seller of mine was Tom, lived near Bristol sort of way I think...?I actually own this X382 DBL now bought it in April 2022
Riddy_km said:
Chubbyross said:
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
RedChimaeraTom said:
I had a 728i M-Sport, 2000, in Cosmos Black with cream leather interior. Still probably the most solidly engineered car I’ve ever owned. X382 DBL, where are you now?….
No way.....I believe it was you who sold it to me! Would have been around 2011 I think? I sold it to another PHer and I believe it is still going. I'm pretty sure the seller of mine was Tom, lived near Bristol sort of way I think...?I actually own this X382 DBL now bought it in April 2022
Edited by E90_M3Ross on Wednesday 22 May 14:57
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