UK vs Europe for car enthusiasts
Discussion
ChocolateFrog said:
Try washing your car in Germany or buying an unrestricted bike in France, or go a few mph
over the speed limit in Switzerland.
Europe is a complex place with different rules all over.over the speed limit in Switzerland.
Certainly trying to wash your car on the wrong day in Germany will
attract the little old ladies out in force telling you not to do it.
The Swiss certainly are punitive about speed limits. That's why I avoid it.
Dunno about France.
ChocolateFrog said:
You can just about get away with anything in the UK if you're not a complete moron about it.
The hundreds (thousands ?) of speed cameras in the UK bring quite some doubt to that statement. There doesn't even have to be a copper there seeing you speeding
for them to have some revenue for it.
Serious speeding starts at a relatively low 86 mph in the UK. For France, it's
a much more liberal 180 kph (110 mph). For Germany, they mostly don't bother and
about 10% of the traffic is going over 180 kph (110 mph).
Other countries in Europe I don't know about, but I imagine most of Southern Europe
are pretty liberal. Certainly Greek taxi drivers don't bother putting on their seat
belts until over 150 kmh.
The Dutch have their 100 kmh limit during the day, which is more strict than
many places.
dcb said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Try washing your car in Germany or buying an unrestricted bike in France, or go a few mph
over the speed limit in Switzerland.
Europe is a complex place with different rules all over.over the speed limit in Switzerland.
Certainly trying to wash your car on the wrong day in Germany will
attract the little old ladies out in force telling you not to do it.
The Swiss certainly are punitive about speed limits. That's why I avoid it.
Dunno about France.
ChocolateFrog said:
You can just about get away with anything in the UK if you're not a complete moron about it.
The hundreds (thousands ?) of speed cameras in the UK bring quite some doubt to that statement. There doesn't even have to be a copper there seeing you speeding
for them to have some revenue for it.
Serious speeding starts at a relatively low 86 mph in the UK. For France, it's
a much more liberal 180 kph (110 mph). For Germany, they mostly don't bother and
about 10% of the traffic is going over 180 kph (110 mph).
Other countries in Europe I don't know about, but I imagine most of Southern Europe
are pretty liberal. Certainly Greek taxi drivers don't bother putting on their seat
belts until over 150 kmh.
The Dutch have their 100 kmh limit during the day, which is more strict than
many places.
Despite the fact there are 1000's of cameras they're clearly very easy to avoid (generally).
Waze and Google are good at giving you a heads up these days and if you're speeding in 20/30/40 zones you probably deserve a tug every now and then anyway.
Robertb said:
The last time I drove in France I was surprised by the very low rural road speed limits, and the draconian enforcement.
The roads may be poorly surfaced in some of the UK but there’s still a lot of pleasure to be had if you make the effort and are sensible and considerate.
I've been in France for the last six weeks, using mostly rural roads, and I've not yet seen a single policeman.The roads may be poorly surfaced in some of the UK but there’s still a lot of pleasure to be had if you make the effort and are sensible and considerate.
Mind you, France is the only country in which I got banned for speeding.
I’ve always used my UK cars or hire cars in France, so the whole tax thing had passed me by.
We’re planning on spending much more time in the South West of France soon, enough to justify buying a car there, and the tax has blown my first plan up entirely.
This is going to require finding something fun, agile, fast and practical but that fits into the lower tax categories.
We’re planning on spending much more time in the South West of France soon, enough to justify buying a car there, and the tax has blown my first plan up entirely.
This is going to require finding something fun, agile, fast and practical but that fits into the lower tax categories.
Ken_Code said:
I’ve always used my UK cars or hire cars in France, so the whole tax thing had passed me by.
We’re planning on spending much more time in the South West of France soon, enough to justify buying a car there, and the tax has blown my first plan up entirely.
This is going to require finding something fun, agile, fast and practical but that fits into the lower tax categories.
Twingo RS We’re planning on spending much more time in the South West of France soon, enough to justify buying a car there, and the tax has blown my first plan up entirely.
This is going to require finding something fun, agile, fast and practical but that fits into the lower tax categories.
Ken_Code said:
I’ve always used my UK cars or hire cars in France, so the whole tax thing had passed me by.
We’re planning on spending much more time in the South West of France soon, enough to justify buying a car there, and the tax has blown my first plan up entirely.
This is going to require finding something fun, agile, fast and practical but that fits into the lower tax categories.
Just buy usedWe’re planning on spending much more time in the South West of France soon, enough to justify buying a car there, and the tax has blown my first plan up entirely.
This is going to require finding something fun, agile, fast and practical but that fits into the lower tax categories.
If going as fast as possible on public roads is your thing, then there's only one country of consideration...end of topic.
If breaking existing limits is where the thrill lies, Germany is probably the worst place to be as enforcement is hardcore. Better off heading East to Poland, Bulgaria etc. where the locals get away with pretty much anything.
The Dutch are crazy about cars (the older / more obscure the better) but have some of the lowest limits anywhere; proof it's possible to have plenty of enthusiasm without requiring brain melting speeds.
Overall my vote would go to Europe though, mainly due to diabolical state of the road surfaces in the UK (whether pot-holed or not) and the tiresome amount of traffic.
Also In the last 3 or 4 years, people have become increasingly furious behind the wheel in the UK, whereas I don't notice any change in European driving.
The emissions restrictions are often tighter in the EU, but IMO worth it for the high quality air in cities.
If breaking existing limits is where the thrill lies, Germany is probably the worst place to be as enforcement is hardcore. Better off heading East to Poland, Bulgaria etc. where the locals get away with pretty much anything.
The Dutch are crazy about cars (the older / more obscure the better) but have some of the lowest limits anywhere; proof it's possible to have plenty of enthusiasm without requiring brain melting speeds.
Overall my vote would go to Europe though, mainly due to diabolical state of the road surfaces in the UK (whether pot-holed or not) and the tiresome amount of traffic.
Also In the last 3 or 4 years, people have become increasingly furious behind the wheel in the UK, whereas I don't notice any change in European driving.
The emissions restrictions are often tighter in the EU, but IMO worth it for the high quality air in cities.
dcb said:
The Dutch have their 100 kmh limit during the day, which is more strict than
many places.
Although on the plus side you only get a fine not points on your licence. They went up a few years ago though, it's about €100 for 10kph over now, there are a lot of cameras and they're not brightly coloured.many places.
Doofus said:
I've been in France for the last six weeks, using mostly rural roads, and I've not yet seen a single policeman.
Mind you, France is the only country in which I got banned for speeding.
The "4th class" regime, for excesses up to 50kph, is superficially lax (2-4 points and €135) but hides a lot of judicial freedom with respect to suspensions - up to 3 years. Mind you, France is the only country in which I got banned for speeding.
Plus we have no direct equivalent of a 5th Class second offense; get caught 40% over the Mway limit for a second time, up to €4k, 3 years off and 3 months in jail! UK band D-E could be pretty serious but there needs to be special circumstances to apply these.
One thing I have noticed is that the further from a City in the UK you are the better it is for motorists.
I lived in Surrey up until autumn last year, I was technically in Zone 6 of London too. Avoiding ULEZ was a pain, cameras to catch you for minor things and restrictions put in place across the borough seemingly to do nothing but catch you and make money.
Living 20 miles away from the nearest city and 10 miles from the nearest town it feels more like how it was 20+ years ago when I started driving. I have also discovered multiple car groups and meets, far more so than anything local to my old place. There were a few but minimal.
Sounds like some of the places in Europe are worse then London, and that's saying something.
I lived in Surrey up until autumn last year, I was technically in Zone 6 of London too. Avoiding ULEZ was a pain, cameras to catch you for minor things and restrictions put in place across the borough seemingly to do nothing but catch you and make money.
Living 20 miles away from the nearest city and 10 miles from the nearest town it feels more like how it was 20+ years ago when I started driving. I have also discovered multiple car groups and meets, far more so than anything local to my old place. There were a few but minimal.
Sounds like some of the places in Europe are worse then London, and that's saying something.
DP14 said:
Germany's 'Umweltzones' started in 2008.
This is interesting. According to this page (https://www.environmental-badge.co.uk), petrol cars as old as Euro-1 get a green badge (free to drive everywhere), but anything pre-Euro-1 is effectively illegal... (Different story with diesels, but I don't think that matters to enthusiasts much). From what I read, there's an exception for classic cars - haven't done a deep dive on criteria, but probably has to be properly old.This Euro-1 rule seems to also be related to the catalytic converter. It looks like if a car has one, it gets a pass (https://www.environmentalbadge.com/environmental-badge-germany)
So on balance, I think German model works better for most folks, but is a deal-breaker if you have (maybe) first gen M5.
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