Late 997 or early 991
Discussion
JackReacher said:
I often see comments like drive both and see which you prefer, but how do people manage this in reality? 3 well known specialists i have tried have requested a deposit before any test drive.
In my experience if you're a genuine and serious prospective purchaser, most Porsche specialists retailing used cars will allow you a test drive (RSJ being a notable exception)If however you tell them you just want to test drive a car or cars for comparison purposes, they'll probably be less accommodating.
Slippydiff said:
JackReacher said:
I often see comments like drive both and see which you prefer, but how do people manage this in reality? 3 well known specialists i have tried have requested a deposit before any test drive.
In my experience if you're a genuine and serious prospective purchaser, most Porsche specialists retailing used cars will allow you a test drive (RSJ being a notable exception)If however you tell them you just want to test drive a car or cars for comparison purposes, they'll probably be less accommodating.
maz8062 said:
Unless the dealer has both cars in stock, it’ll be difficult to rock up test drive a car to see whether you buy it or another version elsewhere. They’d likely suggest you drive the other car first, there’s second. Post Covid, test drives are a thing of the past. A relic.
Utter nonsense. I pre-booked a test drive of a PDK 997.2 3.8S in January of this year with a long established, well regarded indy in the Home Counties.It was the second time in the last three years I’d test driven a car of theirs.
I won’t disclose their name, but on both occasions the owner put a set of trade plates in/on the car and gave me the keys to the car and sent me on my way unaccompanied .
This despite having never bought a car off them.
maz8062 said:
Unless the dealer has both cars in stock, it’ll be difficult to rock up test drive a car to see whether you buy it or another version elsewhere. They’d likely suggest you drive the other car first, there’s second. Post Covid, test drives are a thing of the past. A relic.
I suspect with the market on its arse dealers will start to be more accommodating for genuine buyers. Saying that I bought my last two unseen, let alone test driven - although I did know what I wanted.Slippydiff said:
I won’t disclose their name, but on both occasions the owner put a set of trade plates in/on the car and gave me the keys to the car and sent me on my way unaccompanied .
This despite having never bought a car off them.
I would love to know how that works with their traders insurance - what checks did they do on you before they let you drive off alone for that to work?This despite having never bought a car off them.
(not doubting you at all btw)
Lots of miles in both and would go for the 991. Much better interior , less cramped and more modern electronics. I upgraded my 997 last year to an OEM more current PCM which certainly made it more current-basic stuff like AppleTalk and Bluetooth.
The 997 is good if you get a manual but overall I prefer the daily driver experience of the 991. One item to be aware of is that there seems to be a bit less steering feel in the early 991. The electric steering is a tad more remote than the old hydraulic of the 997 though they improved that over time. Not a huge issue but just an observation.
The 997 is good if you get a manual but overall I prefer the daily driver experience of the 991. One item to be aware of is that there seems to be a bit less steering feel in the early 991. The electric steering is a tad more remote than the old hydraulic of the 997 though they improved that over time. Not a huge issue but just an observation.
981Boxess said:
Slippydiff said:
I won’t disclose their name, but on both occasions the owner put a set of trade plates in/on the car and gave me the keys to the car and sent me on my way unaccompanied .
This despite having never bought a car off them.
I would love to know how that works with their traders insurance - what checks did they do on you before they let you drive off alone for that to work?This despite having never bought a car off them.
(not doubting you at all btw)
They were left with my daily driver BMW on their car park ! though both the 997.2's I test drove were worth considerably more than the BMW ...
As I said, I did pre-book the appointments. I was running late for the appointment in Jan, so out of common courtesy I rang to say I was running 20-25 minutes late. Maybe that stuff is all too rare and thus is more appreciated in this day and age ?
I'm 60, and my boy-racer days are well behind me, I'm guessing experienced used car dealers get to know the difference between a genuine enthusiast/prospective buyer, and a time waster who just wants a brief thrash around in a car for sh*ts and giggles ?
Slippydiff said:
981Boxess said:
Slippydiff said:
I won’t disclose their name, but on both occasions the owner put a set of trade plates in/on the car and gave me the keys to the car and sent me on my way unaccompanied .
This despite having never bought a car off them.
I would love to know how that works with their traders insurance - what checks did they do on you before they let you drive off alone for that to work?This despite having never bought a car off them.
(not doubting you at all btw)
They were left with my daily driver BMW on their car park ! though both the 997.2's I test drove were worth considerably more than the BMW ...
As I said, I did pre-book the appointments. I was running late for the appointment in Jan, so out of common courtesy I rang to say I was running 20-25 minutes late. Maybe that stuff is all too rare and thus is more appreciated in this day and age ?
I'm 60, and my boy-racer days are well behind me, I'm guessing experienced used car dealers get to know the difference between a genuine enthusiast/prospective buyer, and a time waster who just wants a brief thrash around in a car for sh*ts and giggles ?
I would not have done it and quite frankly even if the story ended well I think they were brave/daft at best.
I have driven loads of cars on test drives on my own, I thought it was normal to do so.
BMW asked to see my license the other week when I took an 540i out, but they gave me the keys and said to keep it to around 30 minutes or so if I could.
I also took out a 718 Cayman S a few weeks back, local indi trader and they just gave me the keys too. I sort of know them and have bought from them before.
They all have trade insurance and are covered for this.
BMW asked to see my license the other week when I took an 540i out, but they gave me the keys and said to keep it to around 30 minutes or so if I could.
I also took out a 718 Cayman S a few weeks back, local indi trader and they just gave me the keys too. I sort of know them and have bought from them before.
They all have trade insurance and are covered for this.
Ed.Neumann said:
I have driven loads of cars on test drives on my own, I thought it was normal to do so.
BMW asked to see my license the other week when I took an 540i out, but they gave me the keys and said to keep it to around 30 minutes or so if I could.
I also took out a 718 Cayman S a few weeks back, local indi trader and they just gave me the keys too. I sort of know them and have bought from them before.
They all have trade insurance and are covered for this.
Their insurers would not unreasonably expect the trader to at least have made some effort to know who it was that stole/wrote off the car before they drove off in it, in the example up above that doesn’t seem to be the case.BMW asked to see my license the other week when I took an 540i out, but they gave me the keys and said to keep it to around 30 minutes or so if I could.
I also took out a 718 Cayman S a few weeks back, local indi trader and they just gave me the keys too. I sort of know them and have bought from them before.
They all have trade insurance and are covered for this.
I can see how assuming a driver has a licence they would be insured to drive a car, but the trader making a substantial claim on the policy might be another matter.
Always thought my 991 felt much bigger than my 997, apparently it’s not as much as I thought!
For a daily the 991 is much more refined especially on the motorway, can’t comment on track driving as never done it in mine , but it’s probably the best road car for the money I think
For a daily the 991 is much more refined especially on the motorway, can’t comment on track driving as never done it in mine , but it’s probably the best road car for the money I think
Sukh13 said:
For comparison, directly from Porsche press releases:
2009 997.2 Carrera S Coupe:
Length: 175.83 inches
Width: 71.2 inches
Height: 51.18 inches
Weight: 3.208 lbs. (with PDK)
2012 991.1 Carrera S Coupe:
Length: 176.81 inches
Width: 71.18 inches
Height: 50.98 inches
Weight: 3,120 lbs. (with PDK)
991 is lighter and smaller (less height and marginally narrower, albeit longer by an inch).
2009 997.2 Carrera S Coupe:
Length: 175.83 inches
Width: 71.2 inches
Height: 51.18 inches
Weight: 3.208 lbs. (with PDK)
2012 991.1 Carrera S Coupe:
Length: 176.81 inches
Width: 71.18 inches
Height: 50.98 inches
Weight: 3,120 lbs. (with PDK)
991 is lighter and smaller (less height and marginally narrower, albeit longer by an inch).
981Boxess said:
Their insurers would not unreasonably expect the trader to at least have made some effort to know who it was that stole/wrote off the car before they drove off in it, in the example up above that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I can see how assuming a driver has a licence they would be insured to drive a car, but the trader making a substantial claim on the policy might be another matter.
Why are you so hung up on traders' insurance?? Who cares! FWIW I've also been allowed on my own in test drives from main dealers. Jag, BMW, Porsche. This was during Covid mind, so slightly different.I can see how assuming a driver has a licence they would be insured to drive a car, but the trader making a substantial claim on the policy might be another matter.
Anyways, maybe this should go back on topic.
I've a 997.1 and have been considering what to do as its 18yr old and 87k miles. Continue upkeep, even while it looses value due to mileage, or sell now and get a later car. If I sell I'd go for a 997.2 C2 manual as basic as I can find one, low tax bracket too. The 991 leaves me a bit more cold - then again, have never driven one.
RiccardoG said:
981Boxess said:
Their insurers would not unreasonably expect the trader to at least have made some effort to know who it was that stole/wrote off the car before they drove off in it, in the example up above that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I can see how assuming a driver has a licence they would be insured to drive a car, but the trader making a substantial claim on the policy might be another matter.
Why are you so hung up on traders' insurance?? Who cares! FWIW I've also been allowed on my own in test drives from main dealers. Jag, BMW, Porsche. This was during Covid mind, so slightly different.I can see how assuming a driver has a licence they would be insured to drive a car, but the trader making a substantial claim on the policy might be another matter.
I have an very early 997.1 C2. Basic car with almost no options and a manual transmission. It is glorious and I love it!
Just having driven it over the weekend for an extended time, I was surprised again, of how nice it drives, even on the way back on the motorway.
In the past I have driven it to the S.o.F. and back and it is as good as a GT as it is as a sports car.
But, If I'd buy a 911 today with your requirements, I would go for a 991. While I love the 997 shape, the 991 is a beautiful car as well.
IMHO, for a daily 911 with PDK, if budget permits, I would go for a turbocharged 991.2. The NA flat-6 is glorious no doubt, and coupled with a manual gearbox it is a combination made in heaven on 996/7 chassis, but imho, the 991 is best suited to the great 3.0 turbo engines.
Just having driven it over the weekend for an extended time, I was surprised again, of how nice it drives, even on the way back on the motorway.
In the past I have driven it to the S.o.F. and back and it is as good as a GT as it is as a sports car.
But, If I'd buy a 911 today with your requirements, I would go for a 991. While I love the 997 shape, the 991 is a beautiful car as well.
IMHO, for a daily 911 with PDK, if budget permits, I would go for a turbocharged 991.2. The NA flat-6 is glorious no doubt, and coupled with a manual gearbox it is a combination made in heaven on 996/7 chassis, but imho, the 991 is best suited to the great 3.0 turbo engines.
Sukh13 said:
The problem with 991.2s are that there seems to be an alarming number of turbo issues...
Yes, indeed. But there is an easy-ish fix for it. Litchfield seem to be the place to go to. Much like the IMS bearing with the 996 / early 997 M96 engine. If caught in time, there is a fix for it.
ETA: and should the Turbos have failed, this is the perfect moment to upgrade to some bigger GTS turbos
Edited by Filibuster on Wednesday 22 May 16:21
Sukh13 said:
For comparison, directly from Porsche press releases:
2009 997.2 Carrera S Coupe:
Length: 175.83 inches
Width: 71.2 inches
Height: 51.18 inches
Weight: 3.208 lbs. (with PDK)
2012 991.1 Carrera S Coupe:
Length: 176.81 inches
Width: 71.18 inches
Height: 50.98 inches
Weight: 3,120 lbs. (with PDK)
991 is lighter and smaller (less height and marginally narrower, albeit longer by an inch).
Wow2009 997.2 Carrera S Coupe:
Length: 175.83 inches
Width: 71.2 inches
Height: 51.18 inches
Weight: 3.208 lbs. (with PDK)
2012 991.1 Carrera S Coupe:
Length: 176.81 inches
Width: 71.18 inches
Height: 50.98 inches
Weight: 3,120 lbs. (with PDK)
991 is lighter and smaller (less height and marginally narrower, albeit longer by an inch).
I didn't expect that
Assumed 991 is bigger and heavier
Filibuster said:
Yes, indeed. But there is an easy-ish fix for it. Litchfield seem to be the place to go to.
Much like the IMS bearing with the 996 / early 997 M96 engine. If caught in time, there is a fix for it.
ETA: and should the Turbos have failed, this is the perfect moment to upgrade to some bigger GTS turbos
Litchfield have noted that the oil separator helps but doesn't solve the issue unfortunately. Much like the IMS bearing with the 996 / early 997 M96 engine. If caught in time, there is a fix for it.
ETA: and should the Turbos have failed, this is the perfect moment to upgrade to some bigger GTS turbos
Edited by Filibuster on Wednesday 22 May 16:21
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