Laptop or Tablet with Keyboard?
Discussion
I work on my tablets and my findings so far are that they keyboards are universally not good enough with one exception. MS surface pro. And even then, the positioning of one of the keys is wrong and you have to learn to compensate for it. You can't beat a real keyboard but the surface comes very close.
FMOB said:
Mark300zx said:
FMOB said:
Mark300zx said:
Ok, so I've ditched the idea of replacing my laptop with a tablet, so the next question is what's the most reliable laptop?
Probably a question for things you always wanted to the answer to thread.In my experience that is a Macbook.
They just cost 3 times as much.
Personally I use Asus laptops. I've had 4, the oldest is 14 and still runs. You get pretty good specs on mid range laptops as I tend to buy their light gaming machines. That's pretty much the only reason I've replaced them, they just couldn't run newer games.
I can't comment on Asus' after sales support as I've never had to use it.
FMOB said:
David_M said:
Mark300zx said:
Ok, so I've ditched the idea of replacing my laptop with a tablet, so the next question is what's the most reliable laptop?
Lenovo Thinkpad
captain_cynic said:
Try one and realise there is nothing special about Apple.
They just cost 3 times as much.
Personally I use Asus laptops. I've had 4, the oldest is 14 and still runs. You get pretty good specs on mid range laptops as I tend to buy their light gaming machines. That's pretty much the only reason I've replaced them, they just couldn't run newer games.
I can't comment on Asus' after sales support as I've never had to use it.
They really aren't three times as expensive or 'nothing special', which is why they are so massively popular. Go and look at premium laptops and you'll see they are exactly the same price as MacBooks.They just cost 3 times as much.
Personally I use Asus laptops. I've had 4, the oldest is 14 and still runs. You get pretty good specs on mid range laptops as I tend to buy their light gaming machines. That's pretty much the only reason I've replaced them, they just couldn't run newer games.
I can't comment on Asus' after sales support as I've never had to use it.
You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I use an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
robsa said:
They really aren't three times as expensive or 'nothing special', which is why they are so massively popular. Go and look at premium laptops and you'll see they are exactly the same price as MacBooks.
You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I used an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
You can get the equivalent laptop for £250. Especially if it has an older processor like the one you mentioned.You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I used an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
A MacBook Pro costs £2500.and can't do half.the things my £600 (£700 after I upgraded the RAM and SSD myself) can do.
Sorry.fanboys but there is nothing special about Apple and it really is 3 times as much. People buy them for the brand and that really isn't working any more, hence fewer people are buying them.
captain_cynic said:
robsa said:
They really aren't three times as expensive or 'nothing special', which is why they are so massively popular. Go and look at premium laptops and you'll see they are exactly the same price as MacBooks.
You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I used an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
You can get the equivalent laptop for £250. Especially if it has an older processor like the one you mentioned.You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I used an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
A MacBook Pro costs £2500.and can't do half.the things my £600 (£700 after I upgraded the RAM and SSD myself) can do.
Sorry.fanboys but there is nothing special about Apple and it really is 3 times as much. People buy them for the brand and that really isn't working any more, hence fewer people are buying them.
The actual equivalent in terms of build quality, performance (inc temperatures for equivalent tasks), track pad quality and performance.
You keep mentioning "fanboys" except you appear to lack the self awareness to realise that you're being a "fanboy" yourself, from the opposing end of the spectrum, and not only that, but you're the one that came into the discussion with an aggressive partisan attitude.
Edited by TheJimi on Monday 3rd June 14:20
TheJimi said:
The actual equivalent in terms of build quality, performance (inc temperatures for equivalent tasks), track pad quality and performance.
You have really selected a bunch of subjective bits there -"build quality", "temperatures for equivalent tasks" "track pad quality"(!). Stick to the meat of the matter, which to most people is weight, battery life and disc (ssd) speed. Most average laptop users are just not affected by processor benchmarks. I agree that Macs are wonderfully made, and a cheap Dell is rougher in comparison, in terms of build quality, but, for most users who bash out some Word and Excel docs, and respond to some emails, none of it really matters. It's why IT departments buy PCs for their users, and home purchasers buy Macs, if that's their thing.
Mac users are super loyal and passionate about their kit, even when getting gougued for headphone to lightening adapters etc, and that's great, but, PCs are far cheaper all-in and suit most folk.
The M1 is a lovely bit of kit, and at £799, it's pretty good, but you can get a Dell Inspiron 14" laptop with 1Tb SSD and an i5 for £379 inc vat - and for the vast majority of users would work for them just as well as the M1 air, and they'd spend less than half the money (not even considering how expensive any Mac accessories would then cost them after).
Macs are a premium design product. Priced accordingly.
I agree with the proper laptops for proper work comments, but I don't need a laptop for work, so I have a Samsung Galaxy Tab S8 ultra. I've had it 2 years or something now and it's still the most impressive thing I own.
If I needed my own laptop for work I would seriously think about what exactly you need it for and how often and how much of what you do can be done perfectly adequately on office.com and whether there's anything you can't do that also can't wait until you're next sat at your desk working on your desktop PC.
If you can make the compromise, there isn't a laptop out there that comes close to the best tablets for sitting in front of the TV or general travel. Mine I still haven't got used to how slim it is, it's unreal how go it is and how it's basically an A4 screen that's the thickness of a piece of cardboard. It's a lovely lovely thing to own.
I have the keyboard cover, it's fairly OK to use for work, as is Samsung DEX, though I don't really use it because I tend to just need Edge and possibly Word or One Note open when I work. Excel is fine, particularly Excel Online, if you're putting numbers into a spreadsheet, but anything else I would just wait until I'm next in the office.
I did have one thing that I couldn't do that was helpful to have access to, so I setup a Windows VM over a VPN and can just remote into a full W11 session, then it behaves exactly as if it has Windows on it.
If I needed my own laptop for work I would seriously think about what exactly you need it for and how often and how much of what you do can be done perfectly adequately on office.com and whether there's anything you can't do that also can't wait until you're next sat at your desk working on your desktop PC.
If you can make the compromise, there isn't a laptop out there that comes close to the best tablets for sitting in front of the TV or general travel. Mine I still haven't got used to how slim it is, it's unreal how go it is and how it's basically an A4 screen that's the thickness of a piece of cardboard. It's a lovely lovely thing to own.
I have the keyboard cover, it's fairly OK to use for work, as is Samsung DEX, though I don't really use it because I tend to just need Edge and possibly Word or One Note open when I work. Excel is fine, particularly Excel Online, if you're putting numbers into a spreadsheet, but anything else I would just wait until I'm next in the office.
I did have one thing that I couldn't do that was helpful to have access to, so I setup a Windows VM over a VPN and can just remote into a full W11 session, then it behaves exactly as if it has Windows on it.
Griffith4ever said:
TheJimi said:
The actual equivalent in terms of build quality, performance (inc temperatures for equivalent tasks), track pad quality and performance.
You have really selected a bunch of subjective bits there -"build quality", "temperatures for equivalent tasks" "track pad quality"(!). Stick to the meat of the matter, which to most people is weight, battery life and disc (ssd) speed. Most average laptop users are just not affected by processor benchmarks. I agree that Macs are wonderfully made, and a cheap Dell is rougher in comparison, in terms of build quality, but, for most users who bash out some Word and Excel docs, and respond to some emails, none of it really matters. It's why IT departments buy PCs for their users, and home purchasers buy Macs, if that's their thing.
Mac users are super loyal and passionate about their kit, even when getting gougued for headphone to lightening adapters etc, and that's great, but, PCs are far cheaper all-in and suit most folk.
The M1 is a lovely bit of kit, and at £799, it's pretty good, but you can get a Dell Inspiron 14" laptop with 1Tb SSD and an i5 for £379 inc vat - and for the vast majority of users would work for them just as well as the M1 air, and they'd spend less than half the money (not even considering how expensive any Mac accessories would then cost them after).
Macs are a premium design product. Priced accordingly.
Ultimately though and this is the important bit - I was responding to captain_cynic’s assertion that you can get the equivalent laptop – his actual words – for £250. An assertion I believe to be inaccurate. Perhaps rather than state elements to be compared, I should simply have said “like for like”
I love Apple computers, hate iPhones, I enjoy some PCs and I’ve been an Android user since the G1 – so I’m absolutely not an Apple fanboy. Their products are often flawed.
captain_cynic said:
robsa said:
They really aren't three times as expensive or 'nothing special', which is why they are so massively popular. Go and look at premium laptops and you'll see they are exactly the same price as MacBooks.
You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I used an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
You can get the equivalent laptop for £250. Especially if it has an older processor like the one you mentioned.You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I used an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
A MacBook Pro costs £2500.and can't do half.the things my £600 (£700 after I upgraded the RAM and SSD myself) can do.
Sorry.fanboys but there is nothing special about Apple and it really is 3 times as much. People buy them for the brand and that really isn't working any more, hence fewer people are buying them.
You are just completely, demonstrably wrong here I'm afraid, nothing to do with being a 'fanboy'.
Griffith4ever said:
The M1 is a lovely bit of kit, and at £799, it's pretty good, but you can get a Dell Inspiron 14" laptop with 1Tb SSD and an i5 for £379 inc vat - and for the vast majority of users would work for them just as well as the M1 air, and they'd spend less than half the money (not even considering how expensive any Mac accessories would then cost them after).
Macs are a premium design product. Priced accordingly.
Yes, and the user experience from a £379 Dell Inspiron won't be close to that of a MacBook Air. Your arguments that none of the things mentioned matter as people just want to bash out emails and Word docs is obviously incorrect, otherwise Apple wouldn't sell any laptops and people wouldn't pay a grand for a smartphone. Solid build, a good screen, great sound, a backlit keyboard, great battery life, a large and accurate touchpad - these things DO matter in the same way as features for our cars matter if you are using them often. As I pointed out, I use an HP Probook for work and I have my own MacBook Pro. The HP just about gets the job done, but that's it. It's cheaply built, and significantly poorer in every single area to my MacBook and always painful to use after my MacBook. Of course, it is, it's much cheaper and that's why I bought a MacBook for my own use. Macs are a premium design product. Priced accordingly.
But Captain Wotsit was saying that a £250 laptop is not only as good as a MacBook... but actually better.
Which is obviously mental.
robsa said:
Griffith4ever said:
The M1 is a lovely bit of kit, and at £799, it's pretty good, but you can get a Dell Inspiron 14" laptop with 1Tb SSD and an i5 for £379 inc vat - and for the vast majority of users would work for them just as well as the M1 air, and they'd spend less than half the money (not even considering how expensive any Mac accessories would then cost them after).
Macs are a premium design product. Priced accordingly.
Yes, and the user experience from a £379 Dell Inspiron won't be close to that of a MacBook Air. Your arguments that none of the things mentioned matter as people just want to bash out emails and Word docs is obviously incorrect, otherwise Apple wouldn't sell any laptops and people wouldn't pay a grand for a smartphone. Solid build, a good screen, great sound, a backlit keyboard, great battery life, a large and accurate touchpad - these things DO matter in the same way as features for our cars matter if you are using them often. As I pointed out, I use an HP Probook for work and I have my own MacBook Pro. The HP just about gets the job done, but that's it. It's cheaply built, and significantly poorer in every single area to my MacBook and always painful to use after my MacBook. Of course, it is, it's much cheaper and that's why I bought a MacBook for my own use. Macs are a premium design product. Priced accordingly.
.
I repeat - IT departments don't buy Macs for their users, they buy PCs. I was an IT manager and then IT director for all of my office career. I've been through all this for decades - Macs are for creatives, and home buyers that want the best quality hardware. PCs are for office users and home buyers who don't care how the touchpad performs (and will amost certainly use a bluetooth mouse) and don't have cash to burn.
No one can deny the quality of Apple products, but for getting the job done, they are an expensive luxury.
If you and I sat down to do some work, emails, word etc, my on a Dell and you on your Macbook, we'd both get the work done at the same speed and effort, just you'd be telling me your battery would outlast me if we were stuck with no mains, and how nice your aluminium unibody chassis feels to the touch ;-)
Edited by Griffith4ever on Tuesday 4th June 14:23
Griffith4ever said:
The user experience is identical if Outlook opens, you can read an email, then close it. All the rest just bells whistles and guff.
I repeat - IT departments don't buy Macs for their users, they buy PCs. I was an IT manager and then IT director for all of my office career. I've been through all this for decades - Macs are for creatives, and home buyers that want the best quality hardware. PCs are for office users and home buyers who don't care how the touchpad performs (and will amost certainly use a bluetooth mouse) and don't have cash to burn.
No one can deny the quality of Apple products, but for getting the job done, they are an expensive luxury.
If you and I sat down to do some work, emails, word etc, my on a Dell and you on your Macbook, we'd both get the work done at the same speed and effort, just you'd be telling me your battery would outlast me if we were stuck with no mains, and how nice your aluminium unibody chassis feels to the touch ;-)
You would have far less earache if I were using my MacBook and not my HP Probook, because I wouldn't be continually cursing and swearing! But I agree they are an expensive luxury, they just aren't any more of an expensive luxury than other expensive, luxurious laptops.I repeat - IT departments don't buy Macs for their users, they buy PCs. I was an IT manager and then IT director for all of my office career. I've been through all this for decades - Macs are for creatives, and home buyers that want the best quality hardware. PCs are for office users and home buyers who don't care how the touchpad performs (and will amost certainly use a bluetooth mouse) and don't have cash to burn.
No one can deny the quality of Apple products, but for getting the job done, they are an expensive luxury.
If you and I sat down to do some work, emails, word etc, my on a Dell and you on your Macbook, we'd both get the work done at the same speed and effort, just you'd be telling me your battery would outlast me if we were stuck with no mains, and how nice your aluminium unibody chassis feels to the touch ;-)
And some companies DO use MacBooks, especially creatives. Sadly, not mine though!
The OPs question was "what's the most reliable laptop that's not a Mac?"
From my last post here it's turned into a bit of an Apple Vs Windows laptop thread. Going back to the point, for the OP, that leaves Windows and Linux.
OP, what do you want to use? If Windows, then maybe a ThinkPad or something similar. If Linux, then anything really and configure to your heart's content.
From my last post here it's turned into a bit of an Apple Vs Windows laptop thread. Going back to the point, for the OP, that leaves Windows and Linux.
OP, what do you want to use? If Windows, then maybe a ThinkPad or something similar. If Linux, then anything really and configure to your heart's content.
Mark300zx said:
Windows for me!
You could wait for the new laptops being released with Qualcomm chips. I'm considering waiting to see what they offer as currently my laptop is chugging along (slowly) but not desperate enough for me to need one asap.Anyone else have any input in regards to them? Seems to be the in-between for what the OP wants in regards to tablet with keyboard and standard laptop versions.
You didn’t mention a budget, but if you want repairability, get a framework laptop.
https://frame.work/gb/en
You can spec it and build it yourself, all the parts are replaceable and available from the manufacturer. Fingers crossed they don’t go bankrupt or anything.
https://frame.work/gb/en
You can spec it and build it yourself, all the parts are replaceable and available from the manufacturer. Fingers crossed they don’t go bankrupt or anything.
wyson said:
You didn’t mention a budget, but if you want repairability, get a framework laptop.
https://frame.work/gb/en
You can spec it and build it yourself, all the parts are replaceable and available from the manufacturer. Fingers crossed they don’t go bankrupt or anything.
I would agree with this; its really the first time that a reasonably priced consumer machine has the same (or in some cases better) level of user repairability and parts availability as the corporate spec Thinkpads/Dell Latitudes that are designed to be maintained by in house IT teams. https://frame.work/gb/en
You can spec it and build it yourself, all the parts are replaceable and available from the manufacturer. Fingers crossed they don’t go bankrupt or anything.
robsa said:
They really aren't three times as expensive or 'nothing special', which is why they are so massively popular. Go and look at premium laptops and you'll see they are exactly the same price as MacBooks.
You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I use an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
HP Elitebooks and zBooks are a lot better. The Mrs got a Probook from her work, I was surprised it was a ‘business grade’ machine, it felt like a Pavilion! Elitebooks and zBooks are pretty solid. You can buy the 2020 MacBook air M1 now on Amazon for £799. That is a brilliant laptop, well made, great battery life and really fast. The touchpad is superb, the screen is lovely, there's a reason so many people buy them.
I use an hp probook for work and it's a horrible thing to be honest. Reasonably cheap is its only benefit really.
As mentioned already, the more expensive business grade machines are also worth a look if you want reliability. There was someone here called GaryB, used his laptop all day, but got a consumer grade one and was surprised it went kaput in a matter of months. Everyone told him to get a business grade machine, which are designed for that level of use, but he wouldn’t listen.
Edited by wyson on Friday 7th June 17:16
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