Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

Can you point to any evidence that extra traffic builds up in surrounding areas? The report says that it does not.

If Reform can't get this right it does reinforce the impression that they've pulled a load of nonsense out of their arses that they think might appeal to those who don't pay too much attention to actual evidence.

But it’s such a daft question.

“Where does it end?”

How about “At schools meals”. Is it acceptable now?

It doesn't though does it?

There is no real limit on human suffering that the state needs to fund and fix as human suffering is endless.

For the 120 million spent on school meals, there is 120 million for helping kids with physical disabilities, 120 million to be spent on feeding and clothing the homeless, 120 million on helping women fleeing abuse, 120 million on preventing child trafficking, 120 million on preventing drug trafficking related violence by early intervention, 120 million on mental health care, 120 million on working tax credits for those at the hard end of society and poor working conditions .....

You know, in terms of spending priorities there is a whole laundry list of things to throw 120 million at and I am not sure school meals is the priority, given the choice but hey, all money is free right?

Over time the challenge is not finding money to spend things on, it's about maintaining the tax base and maintaining GDP per head so you have money to spend and the arguement, for too long now has been about the 'spend' arguement rather than the tax base, growth and GDP her head arguement.

Most of the policies you've just mentioned would almost certainly have positive cost/benefits. They would increase GDP, productivity and tax take by improving overall health, education, security and opportunity and reducing spending on serious/long term health issues and the costs of poverty, crime and inequality.

It is as close to free money as there can be in public policy - education in general, and school meals specifically - are cost savers/revenue generators. The underlying cause for the UK's sluggish growth and spiralling welfare bill over the past 15 years is that we have cut spending on these things under the delusion that they're cost sinks when actually we're hobbling the ability of the economy and its people to maximise their potential.

I'll spell it out again: There is no overall cost to providing school meals to all children. It leaves the Treasury with more money than they put in, so they can spend more on other things. Or, if you must have it that way, on taxing you less.

There are only moral or ideological reasons to be against it and similar policies.

I too had free school meals, and no I don’t want kids to go hungry. There is no need for poor kids to go hungry because they can get free school meals. Rich kids don’t need free meals. It’s not a difficult concept to understand

It’s been asserted, but it hasn’t been proven with verifiable data. I’ll listen when there is data

I got no stigma or abuse for it as a kid. The positive outcome of kids getting a meal is not the issue, it’s the idea that all lunch meals for all kids should be paid for by the state because apparently that means poor kids will definitely get them, even though they can already get them! Unless you believe that Government coffers are infinite, why would you want to pay for a wealthy person’s kid to have lunch when the money would be better spent giving more support to the poor and needy?

"1.2 Topline Findings
The CBA found that both expansion scenarios presented a positive return on investment (ROI).
For each scenario the total discounted core benefit has been estimated, as follows:
Expansion scenario 1 (Universal credit)
£8.9bn = Total discounted core benefit for all pupils receiving Universal Credit from 2025-2045
Every £1 invested is estimated to generate £1.38 in the core benefits.
Expansion scenario 2 (Universal Free School Meals)
£41.3bn = Total discounted core benefit for all pupils in state-funded schools from 2025-2045
Every £1 invested is estimated to generate £1.71 in the core benefits."

"Expanding free school meals to every child from households receiving universal credit would help alleviate immediate cost of living pressures, and would ultimately return £1.38 to the economy for every £1 invested over a 20-year period. That means an injection of £8.9bn into the economy, as well as wider indirect benefits of £16.2bn through regional economic and supply chain gains. And, should the government choose to extend entitlement to all children in state-funded education, the research shows that £41.3bn would be generated in direct benefits and a further £58.2bn in indirect."

-Impact on Urban Health/PwC, 2022

"The universal pilot had a significant positive impact on attainment for primary school
pupils at Key Stages 1 and 2, with pupils in the pilot areas making between four and
eight weeks’ more progress than similar pupils in comparison areas."
- Department of Education, Universal Free School Meals Pilot Report, 2010.

"A sample of ten countries where school meals, take-
home rations or biscuits are provided shows that
every single dollar invested gave an economic re-
turn of 3 to 10 USD from improved health and
education among schoolchildren and increased
productivity when they become working adults."
- World Food Programme Executive Board, 2016

Amazing what ideology will see you putting your name against.

In a world that is now rooted in entitlement and social justice there is only one right answer between allocating 120 million to free school meals or, 120 million to body armour for our army - we end up spending 240 million and fund it with debt and ever higher taxation.

If you have to decide between these two competing priorities you are either a proponent of child starvation or, a squaddie killer.

There is no real end to social justice or, it's cost to the tax payer, it's designed to always find another way to spend ever increasing amounts on state dependency.

Why stop at free food? why not free clothing for all children under 16 ? no child should have to have to suffer the indignity of not being able to afford a coat and shoes. what about a home? what about heating it during winter so they don't become sick? why can't people afford electricity and water so a child can have a hot shower or bath? why not make it free for all at the point of use as they are basic human rights?

I, like pretty much everyone else here, I suspect , wishes the elimination of all these issues from our society and way of life, especially children and the vulnerable.

The problem with the left in our country is that the coverage and scale of social justice has moved well beyond where it was originally intended to focus on and the irony of it is, the UK probably could afford to entirely eliminate child poverty, implement free school meals, clothing, food vouchers, housing if the focus was shifted away from the welfare state that supports adults that are not actually vulnerable.

that's not a dialog the left wants to have as everyone has a grievance and a need on the state as the state will provide for all.