Discussion
Twinfan said:
I've no idea, I'm just quoting the sources of what I'd heard. TDT seems to think otherwise having seen the cars.
Well the basic layout is still macpherson strut rather than multi-link. So it might have some added tweaks but it's still fundamentally a weaker solution than what the gt3 has. Although given Porsche have kept the gt4 race cars on the same it's hardly a shock the road car isn't being changed either.Twinfan said:
TDT said:
Twinfan said:
I thought I read that the rear suspension on the 718 GT4 was different, more like the GT3 in design?
No it’s different than the rest of the 718 range. But it’s a GT4 setup… exactly the same as the 981 GT4. I’ve been under the cars, and you can see it in the press pack cut aways.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqW-cQPL6tE
Top Gear also claim it's new (https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/porsche/gt4-2dr-auto/first-drive):
"The suspension package is largely carried over. The front end has much in common with the 911 GT3, including the brakes (carbon ceramics are on the options list), but now more GT3 has made it into the back axle, too, including the subframe, upside-down dampers, longitudinal and transverse control arms and ball joints. It’s all in the name of control and precision."
Its not a debate… the hardware, concept and implementation is unchanged for the 718 GT4 vs the 981 GT4.
GT4 rear is significantly different from a series 981/718
Edited by TDT on Monday 2nd December 11:12
Twinfan said:
av185 said:
So the rear suspension on the 718 GT4 is nothing like the 981 GT4 then.
I've no idea, I'm just quoting the sources of what I'd heard. TDT seems to think otherwise having seen the cars.Even the rear toe link is the same and still fixed in the new car. You need to change it for an adjustable unit if you want to run more than stock camber.
isaldiri said:
Twinfan said:
I've no idea, I'm just quoting the sources of what I'd heard. TDT seems to think otherwise having seen the cars.
Well the basic layout is still macpherson strut rather than multi-link. So it might have some added tweaks but it's still fundamentally a weaker solution than what the gt3 has. Although given Porsche have kept the gt4 race cars on the same it's hardly a shock the road car isn't being changed either.isaldiri said:
TDT said:
Yep, still no match for the precision of a multi-link set up, and better still would be double wishbone.
Hm... double wishbone to multi link is probably debatable I think tbh in terms of the 'better' setup but not either compared to struts.But struts are inferior to multi-link or double wishbone. Right?
TDT said:
Not sure if I’ve read that correctly or there was a slight mistype.
But struts are inferior to multi-link or double wishbone. Right?
Yup definitely on the latter. I just meant before that between multi link and double wishbone it's probably (I think anyway) debatable as to which works better.But struts are inferior to multi-link or double wishbone. Right?
isaldiri said:
TDT said:
Not sure if I’ve read that correctly or there was a slight mistype.
But struts are inferior to multi-link or double wishbone. Right?
Yup definitely on the latter. I just meant before that between multi link and double wishbone it's probably (I think anyway) debatable as to which works better.But struts are inferior to multi-link or double wishbone. Right?
Autoquest in Florida have a multi-link rear suspension kit for the 981 GT4, I know there is at least one GT4 running in the UK with the main reported advantage being able to get on the power earlier exiting corners.
https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09
Having spent over three years testing different DSC maps, I can assure you that it is best to find someone with experience of setting it up together with OEM or upgraded suspension hardware and who can reflect your driving style in the mapping. There are probably people in the UK who have such experience these days.
The GT4 top mount damper attachment points are not central, but offset inboard which does not necessarily imply extra camber through this feature. The rear is constrained as stated previously by the eccentric feature of the stock TCA which Chris Franklin replaced with RSS on my custom suspension.
https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09
Having spent over three years testing different DSC maps, I can assure you that it is best to find someone with experience of setting it up together with OEM or upgraded suspension hardware and who can reflect your driving style in the mapping. There are probably people in the UK who have such experience these days.
The GT4 top mount damper attachment points are not central, but offset inboard which does not necessarily imply extra camber through this feature. The rear is constrained as stated previously by the eccentric feature of the stock TCA which Chris Franklin replaced with RSS on my custom suspension.
gtsralph said:
Autoquest in Florida have a multi-link rear suspension kit for the 981 GT4, I know there is at least one GT4 running in the UK with the main reported advantage being able to get on the power earlier exiting corners.
https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09
Having spent over three years testing different DSC maps, I can assure you that it is best to find someone with experience of setting it up together with OEM or upgraded suspension hardware and who can reflect your driving style in the mapping. There are probably people in the UK who have such experience these days.
The GT4 top mount damper attachment points are not central, but offset inboard which does not necessarily imply extra camber through this feature. The rear is constrained as stated previously by the eccentric feature of the stock TCA which Chris Franklin replaced with RSS on my custom suspension.
Yep - I've met Tim, and spoken to him about the Multi-link setup. https://www.autoquestcars.com/custom-09
Having spent over three years testing different DSC maps, I can assure you that it is best to find someone with experience of setting it up together with OEM or upgraded suspension hardware and who can reflect your driving style in the mapping. There are probably people in the UK who have such experience these days.
The GT4 top mount damper attachment points are not central, but offset inboard which does not necessarily imply extra camber through this feature. The rear is constrained as stated previously by the eccentric feature of the stock TCA which Chris Franklin replaced with RSS on my custom suspension.
DSC have now published some geo settings that will work with their provided maps, and for generic adjustable rear toe-links vs their own offset rear toe links.
They have also added some other tables over the summer (GRS) which provide even greater resolution of control.
So I'll be keen to play with it and find out the possibilities - as it's worth a play and low risk for the money, vs full rip and replace with KW or JRZ setup, if you aren't sure that's want you want.
Plus we haven't really had much feedback apart from yourself on the unit on this platform, although BubblesNW also runs one.
Loads of cars in the US run it and people are finding many seconds with just the confidence the unit brings through 'basic' active control roll in the corners, and dive when braking at the limit which can cause the rear to dance as rear toe changes due to the weight transfer - thats even before we get into custom mapping.
I have spoke with CG about custom mapping before and also the multi-link setup. 9E and Parr are also UK resellers. I have purchased the unit from 9E.
At the end of the day the mapping is about what electric load and therefore damping rate do you want per corner for a given combination of G-loading or velocity. There are some handy trick bits in the tuning software which allow you to pick a start and end value - and then press a button which will then interpolate the values in between. You can load 2 maps at a time - so have them in the Chassis 'normal' mode and Chassis 'sport mode' but they can be what ever you want - do you can have a dry setup and a wet setup for given track - and you can just load it up in less than a minute - if you want to change something you can... and you have live data recording to show you the values as you ago around the lap.
Edited by TDT on Monday 2nd December 18:17
gtsralph said:
Re DSC, remember to get dampers that respond mid-stroke and far faster than Bilstein’s 100ms or more. I am not sure whether KW actives are fast enough, but Mike will know.
Ref mid-stroke - the tractive dampers are cool, but 'm not going to go with that.I'll use the DSC box with my current setup based on the Manthey Trackday Kit.
Ref, the Manthey Kit, I'm already happy with that, so I just want to see if the DSC will flatten the platform, in the high load zones.
If/when I out grow this/get bored - it'll probably be time for another car.
arcamalpha said:
What effect does the sports exhaust button have on a 981 GT4? Mine makes seemingly no difference to the loudness and just adds some light burble on the overrun. Is that right? I’m used to the exhaust button adding a lot more noise.
Exhaust button will open the valves from idle all the way through the rev range, so you should notice the change, and it will be louder vs valves closed beneath about 4K RPM, as the valves open automatically over that whether the button is pushed or not.I tried a DSC unit on my stock GT4 a year or so back. It was an improvement in terms of low speed ride quality but when pushing on it was terrible, verging on dangerous. I fitted it just before a euro trip but swapped it back to the OEM unit after the first day. Car was way better after that.
Admittedly the geo was factory at the time and I have since had it adjusted by Chris at CG. That was a far greater improvement. I suspected that the map on the DSC unit I had wasn’t optimal for my car / set up. But the supplier didn’t seem too interested in changing it or advising how to do so. He did however take it back and give a full refund. I’ll like to try another one but only if it was set up correctly for my car.
Admittedly the geo was factory at the time and I have since had it adjusted by Chris at CG. That was a far greater improvement. I suspected that the map on the DSC unit I had wasn’t optimal for my car / set up. But the supplier didn’t seem too interested in changing it or advising how to do so. He did however take it back and give a full refund. I’ll like to try another one but only if it was set up correctly for my car.
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