What have you done with PPC parking "fines"

[Dog Star]

This relates to PPC (Private) Parking Tickets - NOT Council/Police/Traffic Warden Tickets

This is something that keeps coming up on PH (as well as Martin's Money Tips and, of course, Pepipoo).

Current wisdom says that you should never ever respond to PPC letters and threats related to PPC "fines" (in reality they are invoices).

I think it would be interesting to know just how successful this strategy actually is. How many people on PH (one of the most influential motoring sites about, so a good place to ask), if any, have actually been taken to court by the PPC? And how many have lost? Or is it really just a case of intimidating letter after intimidating letter and eventually they go away?

Please don't bother with the usual "you parked where you shouldn't - pay the 'fine'" responses: that's not what the poll is about.

I'd simply like to know - as I'm sure a lot of others would - do they ever go to court.

[PottyMouth]

Had 3 PPC tickets from the same company.

Ignored all letters and they just gave up.

Chances of being taken to court are infinitessimally small.

[Chris_w666]

Had 3 in the past year, 1st one was not issued in accordance with their T & Cs sent off a letter pointing this out heard nothing. Last 2 from another firm in same car park heard nothing from them.

[carreauchompeur]

Got one myself a couple of weeks ago, have decided to go down the "ignore" route, simply because it's a vastly unjust fine and I think they're taking the mickey, not to mention the weight of advice on the Internet.

[GKP]

Soneone I know had a 'Fine' through the post from a private car park company claiming she'd overstayed her allowed two hours in a free carpark for a group of around 10 shops.
A very officious looking letter complete with entry and exit photos of her car and claims of CCJs, bad credit and refused mortgages turned up - along with a bill for £80 increased to £130 if not paid within 14 days. I can't believe she actually wanted to pay it, purely to make it go away. I filed it under 'B' along with the follow up letter a week or two later.
That seemed to make it go away.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

hmm, interesting as im currently going through this process, I have written to them stating i did not break the rules of the car park and will not be paying their fine.

had a couple of letter stating they are going to take me to court, ive called the legal companies involved and said i'm not paying....

I will let you know what happens, if anything.


and I PARKED CORRECTLY, WELL WITHIN THE MAXIMUM TIME

[HellDiver]

Poll is flawed - I couldn't vote "Don't have them here".

[cmackay81]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

hmm, interesting as im currently going through this process, I have written to them stating i did not break the rules of the car park and will not be paying their fine.

had a couple of letter stating they are going to take me to court, ive called the legal companies involved and said i'm not paying....

I will let you know what happens, if anything.


and I PARKED CORRECTLY, WELL WITHIN THE MAXIMUM TIME

d'oh

Dont Reply at all!
It lets them know that they have the correct address and correct driver for the car. If you do reply there is a much higher chance they will pursue it.

[Plotloss]

cmackay81 said:

Petrolhead_Rich said:

hmm, interesting as im currently going through this process, I have written to them stating i did not break the rules of the car park and will not be paying their fine.

had a couple of letter stating they are going to take me to court, ive called the legal companies involved and said i'm not paying....

I will let you know what happens, if anything.


and I PARKED CORRECTLY, WELL WITHIN THE MAXIMUM TIME

d'oh

Dont Reply at all!
It lets them know that they have the correct address and correct driver for the car. If you do reply there is a much higher chance they will pursue it.

Yep.

All they have in the initial letter is the keeper, not the driver that entered the contract.

Now they have the driver who entered the contract.

If they are genuinely at fault, fair enough but you should never ever ever respond. Never.

[Bill]

Currently may or may not be ignoring one. SWMBO is genuinely concerned each time they ramp up the pressure, although she's been mollified now I've pointed out the "Debt collecting" firm and "solicitors" share a postcode and use PO Boxes

[dpbird90]

Just looking through here tells you all you need to know
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...

One of the letters contradicts itself by saying they use ANPR but then goes on to say that a parking warden gave the ticket manually. If it was ANPR they would have no need for a parking warden at all.

ETA: looking through all those links, one of them for the University of York makes alarm bells ring. If it's the University of YORK why is the address in Northampton?

Edited by dpbird90 on Wednesday 8th September 09:44

[Chris_w666]

Petrolhead_Rich said:

hmm, interesting as im currently going through this process, I have written to them stating i did not break the rules of the car park and will not be paying their fine.

had a couple of letter stating they are going to take me to court, ive called the legal companies involved and said i'm not paying....

I will let you know what happens, if anything.


and I PARKED CORRECTLY, WELL WITHIN THE MAXIMUM TIME

The key here is unless you are certain that they have no evidence then you should not open communication with them, this was the advice I got as if you respond they think you are worried enough to pay. In my case I had time stamped CCTV footage that could prove my car was in another part of town for 2 of the 5 hours they claimed I was in their car park.

[Dog Star]

Bill said:

Currently may or may not be ignoring one. SWMBO is genuinely concerned each time they ramp up the pressure, although she's been mollified now I've pointed out the "Debt collecting" firm and "solicitors" share a postcode and use PO Boxes

You might want to point out to her that they cannot employ a debt collecting firm (or affect your credit, CCJs, send bailiffs, add court costs and expenses etc) until, and not before, they have taken you to court and won and you don't pay. Then they secure a court order to recover the "debt".

Could any legal eagles also clarify this: they take you to court it must be the small claims court. Are they allowed to claim costs in small claims? I don't think they are....

[Plotloss]

Dog Star said:

Bill said:

Currently may or may not be ignoring one. SWMBO is genuinely concerned each time they ramp up the pressure, although she's been mollified now I've pointed out the "Debt collecting" firm and "solicitors" share a postcode and use PO Boxes

You might want to point out to her that they cannot employ a debt collecting firm (or affect your credit, CCJs, send bailiffs, add court costs and expenses etc) until, and not before, they have taken you to court and won and you don't pay. Then they secure a court order to recover the "debt".

Could any legal eagles also clarify this: they take you to court it must be the small claims court. Are they allowed to claim costs in small claims? I don't think they are....

Nope they can't claim costs, fees but not costs.

[Bill]

Dog Star said:

You might want to point out to her that they cannot employ a debt collecting firm (or affect your credit, CCJs, send bailiffs, add court costs and expenses etc) until, and not before, they have taken you to court and won and you don't pay. Then they secure a court order to recover the "debt".

I know you're right about the bit in brackets, but can't they sell the debt to a debt collector and then it's up to the debt collector to take you to court?

[Dog Star]

Bill said:

Dog Star said:

You might want to point out to her that they cannot employ a debt collecting firm (or affect your credit, CCJs, send bailiffs, add court costs and expenses etc) until, and not before, they have taken you to court and won and you don't pay. Then they secure a court order to recover the "debt".

I know you're right about the bit in brackets, but can't they sell the debt to a debt collector and then it's up to the debt collector to take you to court?

Right - I've decided that you, Bill, owe me £5000 for posting on my poll. I'm selling this debt on to a debt collecting agency. They'll be round tomorrow with their court order.

See a flaw in this?

[Plotloss]

Bill said:

Dog Star said:

You might want to point out to her that they cannot employ a debt collecting firm (or affect your credit, CCJs, send bailiffs, add court costs and expenses etc) until, and not before, they have taken you to court and won and you don't pay. Then they secure a court order to recover the "debt".

I know you're right about the bit in brackets, but can't they sell the debt to a debt collector and then it's up to the debt collector to take you to court?

It's not a debt.

They are merely asserting you breached the terms of a contract you entered.

They'd need to show how the parking infringement caused the material loss of £60 (or whatever the fine is) and that the keeper they're writing to was the person that entered the contract in the first place.

There is no requirement for the keeper to divulge this information.

They'll give up because they have no legal basis of argument.

[Chris_w666]

Bill said:

Dog Star said:

You might want to point out to her that they cannot employ a debt collecting firm (or affect your credit, CCJs, send bailiffs, add court costs and expenses etc) until, and not before, they have taken you to court and won and you don't pay. Then they secure a court order to recover the "debt".

I know you're right about the bit in brackets, but can't they sell the debt to a debt collector and then it's up to the debt collector to take you to court?

I thought because it was an alleged debt and not a 'Fine' they would need to present evidence of a contract or CCA between you and the firm in question. Also they have no proof who was driving the car unless you give them it.

[deeen]

Made the mistake of writing back, they went away after 4 letters.

[Petrolhead_Rich]

cmackay81 said:

Petrolhead_Rich said:

hmm, interesting as im currently going through this process, I have written to them stating i did not break the rules of the car park and will not be paying their fine.

had a couple of letter stating they are going to take me to court, ive called the legal companies involved and said i'm not paying....

I will let you know what happens, if anything.


and I PARKED CORRECTLY, WELL WITHIN THE MAXIMUM TIME

d'oh

Dont Reply at all!
It lets them know that they have the correct address and correct driver for the car. If you do reply there is a much higher chance they will pursue it.

So its a good thing I forgot to send the letter i "Sent" them??

Apparently I parked in a reserved part of the car park at crown point shopping centre Leeds (there is no reserved parking), so there is no way in hell they are getting a penny off me!