The Golden Years
Discussion
I guess most people have got their own ideas of drag racings golden years, mine happen to be 1969-1972, as much of what we take for granted on the drag strip today, evolved or was introduced during that period. Let me give you some examples I have come up with;
Aluminium TF engine blocks
Slider clutches & wrinkle wall slicks
Rear engined TF dragster
Clip-on starter motors
Burnouts
Track grip juice
I'm sure there's a few more that I will think of during those years. I fully realise that front engined dragsters have been around since the dawn of drag racing, but it was Don Garlits and Connie Swingle who made the concept work safely back in the early 70's.
Aluminium TF engine blocks
Slider clutches & wrinkle wall slicks
Rear engined TF dragster
Clip-on starter motors
Burnouts
Track grip juice
I'm sure there's a few more that I will think of during those years. I fully realise that front engined dragsters have been around since the dawn of drag racing, but it was Don Garlits and Connie Swingle who made the concept work safely back in the early 70's.
Edited by CRR on Thursday 4th January 10:11
Hello CCR, not being 'picky', and i have no axe to grind, but i think you will find that Garlit's and Swingle were successfull with a mid-engined dragster.----BUT the first really successfull mid-engined car was Tony Nancy's 'Wedge' (a.k.a. 22jnr). Exellent articles in Autocar October 1964, comparing the 'Wedge' and Don Garlits more "conventional" 'Wynns Jammer'---Swamp Rat 7.
Roger.
Roger.
Yes, you are correct protemporum, I meant to say mid/rear engined dragsters. However, not sure about Nancy's Wedge being the first really successful mid engined dragster. After all, it did crash here in England in 1964. Admittedly, it wasn't driven by Nancy on that occassion but by Dante Duce.
I think it suffered from the same problem that most of the mid engined cars had done, ie it was unstable at speed. It was only when Garlits was testing his original mid engined car and facing the same high speed problems, that this problem was eventually overcome. Swingle suggested that the front steering ratio was changed and that simple alteration changed everything.
I think it suffered from the same problem that most of the mid engined cars had done, ie it was unstable at speed. It was only when Garlits was testing his original mid engined car and facing the same high speed problems, that this problem was eventually overcome. Swingle suggested that the front steering ratio was changed and that simple alteration changed everything.
Hello CCR, the main problem with Tony Nancy's 'The Wedge' during the 1964 Dragfest, according to published reports of the meetings, was , oil and coolant on the rear tyres due to con-rods exiting the Plmouth engine blocks (four times!). There are many interesting pictures of all the Dragfest participants on www.webshots.com search for Tony Nancy 1964.
Hello CCR, i've been having a think about this, i don't think 'The Wedge' crashed during the dragfests, Dante Duce was driving Tony Nancy's front engined car--all of Tony's cars were called '22jnr'--but i could be wrong, any 'experts' out there who could confirm if 'The Wedge' did actually crash, as opposed to spinning?
I've just done a bit of research protemporum, and I stand to be corrected. Yes, it was the front engined "22 Junior" that Duce was driving and crashed at Chelveston when the car hit the top end timing lights. Yes, I remember that Nancy had all sorts of problems with his mid engined "The Wedge" including liquid getting under the slicks on several occasions as you can clearly hear on the recordings that were made at the 1964 Dragfest.
However, going back to your original statement that "The Wedge" was the "first really successful mid-engined car", I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If it really was as sucessful as you think, why didn't all the TF cars of the time change to that configuration? Within 18 months of Garlits debuting his mid engined car, the vast majority of TF cars were mid engined and the front engined TF car was virtually confined to the history books.
Not sure how long Nancy stuck with "The Wedge" and its mid engined design, but he fairly soon went back to front engined cars and only switched back to mid engined in the early 1970's after Garlits had made them work safely.
However, going back to your original statement that "The Wedge" was the "first really successful mid-engined car", I'm going to have to disagree with you there. If it really was as sucessful as you think, why didn't all the TF cars of the time change to that configuration? Within 18 months of Garlits debuting his mid engined car, the vast majority of TF cars were mid engined and the front engined TF car was virtually confined to the history books.
Not sure how long Nancy stuck with "The Wedge" and its mid engined design, but he fairly soon went back to front engined cars and only switched back to mid engined in the early 1970's after Garlits had made them work safely.
O.K. now i am going to be a little controversial CCR, in so much as every time in the past i have made the following observation, no-one has ever agreed. Drag racers (and all other motor-sport competitors, just to show i am not biased) are very conservative. They follow the 'winning' combination, some - not all - follow almost slavishly.
In the early days, actualy before what is now known as the Golden Years, anything was tried, the rule book did not say 'you cannot'- so they did! Dare i say this: when they started to race for more than bragging-rites and a trophy (money) the diversity and the search for the new 'trick' slowed dramaticlly.
In these enlightened times not only is Drag Racing big business/prime-time T.V....Horror of horrors, someone who wants to "go racing" can purchase anything, a 'turnkey' operation even in top fuel. Is this a bad thing? I personaly don't know....(thinks...if i win 53sqiulin on the euro-lot???? Hmmmm, thinking is apparenty bad for me)
So whats all this rambling about? I don't know what happened to 'The Wedge', not seen it mentioned as being in a museum or in someones car collection.
I think Tony Nancy, along with everyone else saw that Garlits had a winning car and followed suite.
In the early days, actualy before what is now known as the Golden Years, anything was tried, the rule book did not say 'you cannot'- so they did! Dare i say this: when they started to race for more than bragging-rites and a trophy (money) the diversity and the search for the new 'trick' slowed dramaticlly.
In these enlightened times not only is Drag Racing big business/prime-time T.V....Horror of horrors, someone who wants to "go racing" can purchase anything, a 'turnkey' operation even in top fuel. Is this a bad thing? I personaly don't know....(thinks...if i win 53sqiulin on the euro-lot???? Hmmmm, thinking is apparenty bad for me)
So whats all this rambling about? I don't know what happened to 'The Wedge', not seen it mentioned as being in a museum or in someones car collection.
I think Tony Nancy, along with everyone else saw that Garlits had a winning car and followed suite.
I think the main (only?) reason why drag racers are so conservative in this day and age is that there is very little that they are allowed to do in the way of innovation because NHRA rules and regs are so very restrictive. Everything has to conform, there's a minimum and a maximum for just about everything in a race car today.
Just about the last true innovation introduced by a racer that I can remember is when Joe Amato turned up at a meeting with an ultra tall rear wing on his TF dragster and promptly became the first person to go 280 was it? Innovations such as a triple magneto set up that Kenny Bernstein experimented with in the 1990's were banned by the NHRA presumably on cost grounds.
Just about the last true innovation introduced by a racer that I can remember is when Joe Amato turned up at a meeting with an ultra tall rear wing on his TF dragster and promptly became the first person to go 280 was it? Innovations such as a triple magneto set up that Kenny Bernstein experimented with in the 1990's were banned by the NHRA presumably on cost grounds.
Reproduced by kind permission of Bob McClurg, author of Diggers, Funnies, Gassers & Altereds' Drag Racing's Golden Age.
"Rear engine Dragsters are about as old as the Dragster class itself," said Greg Sharp, Curator of the Wally Parks/NHRA Motorsports Museum.
One of the first rear-engine Dragsters on record was hot-rod pioneer Ollie "Offenhauser" Morris' Smokin' White Owl flathead-powered Dragster. It consistently ran in the mid-to-high 140s, and was a steady fixture at old Santa Ana.
Another succesful back-motor car was the Scotty Fenn-Chassis Research, Inc-built, Coleman Bros blown small-block-Chevy-powered Dragster from Glen Burnie, Maryland. This machine was touted as the "World's Fastest Chevrolet." Driver Earl Howard piloted the rear-engine car to a 8.91 @ 191.00 mph on fuel.
Arguably, the most succesful early rear-engine Dragsters in the sport were Tony Nancy's famed 22JRs, aka Wedge I and Wedge II, Wedge I was destroyed in 1963 in Sandusky, Ohio. Wedge II has been fully restored and is on permanent display at the Wally Parks/NHRA Motorsports Museum.
Chassis builder Woody Gilmore and Fuel racer Duane Ong built a stiletto-shaped red, white and blue rear-engine AA/FD known as the Pawnbroker in 1970. It does bear the distinction of having won the Top Fuel title at the 1970 AHRA Northern Nationals at New York National Speedway with a 6.83 second run.
"Rear engine Dragsters are about as old as the Dragster class itself," said Greg Sharp, Curator of the Wally Parks/NHRA Motorsports Museum.
One of the first rear-engine Dragsters on record was hot-rod pioneer Ollie "Offenhauser" Morris' Smokin' White Owl flathead-powered Dragster. It consistently ran in the mid-to-high 140s, and was a steady fixture at old Santa Ana.
Another succesful back-motor car was the Scotty Fenn-Chassis Research, Inc-built, Coleman Bros blown small-block-Chevy-powered Dragster from Glen Burnie, Maryland. This machine was touted as the "World's Fastest Chevrolet." Driver Earl Howard piloted the rear-engine car to a 8.91 @ 191.00 mph on fuel.
Arguably, the most succesful early rear-engine Dragsters in the sport were Tony Nancy's famed 22JRs, aka Wedge I and Wedge II, Wedge I was destroyed in 1963 in Sandusky, Ohio. Wedge II has been fully restored and is on permanent display at the Wally Parks/NHRA Motorsports Museum.
Chassis builder Woody Gilmore and Fuel racer Duane Ong built a stiletto-shaped red, white and blue rear-engine AA/FD known as the Pawnbroker in 1970. It does bear the distinction of having won the Top Fuel title at the 1970 AHRA Northern Nationals at New York National Speedway with a 6.83 second run.
can't thank you enough for bringing them back properly Lawrie, last two years have been awesome watching themHello Dilligaf / Richard !
Hmmmmm.....former cars : Chevy
engined Opel
.....
??
What model was ist, what were your best times and where did it end up ?
In germany, we have a series called www.street-eliminator.de ,
(sounds familiar? should, he he.) which was won in 06 by a 440 engined Manta B ,
the driver also runs it in SG and has a pb of 9,40, still kinda street legal with TÜV.
Cheers,
Benni
Hmmmmm.....former cars : Chevy
engined Opel..... ?? What model was ist, what were your best times and where did it end up ?
In germany, we have a series called www.street-eliminator.de ,
(sounds familiar? should, he he.) which was won in 06 by a 440 engined Manta B ,
the driver also runs it in SG and has a pb of 9,40, still kinda street legal with TÜV.
Cheers,
Benni
who drives a 77 Opel Kadett C /Chevy Chevette station wagon,slightly ratty
Dilligaf - We will be at SCR for some meets, awaiting Jerry's input for others. Apart from one occasion (high temps), the track prep was excellent and many PB's set - looking for more this year. Chaos and The Mob have invested heavily in new engines AND a common spare short block with refurbed heads to boot - we are really determined to get more than one or two runs per meeting ! Expect 10 - 12 Teams to appear.....
Jon - As a 'demo class' we are caught between two stools - demo or eliminations...
The public want to see the teams run as much as possible, whereas some 'hard-core' fans(but not all) want to see eliminations. Most teams want to run as much as poss, so as to get experience and tuning data. As we run it at present,(a points series) the 1/2/3 positions are decided at the end of the season, which seems to satisfy most criteria, but not all....
In the USA the Altereds run as a 'booked-in Show' and get paid for it, not as eliminations. Sometimes if the Track Operator requires it and has the money, they run-off the two fastest cars, to get a 'Winner' and 'Runner-Up'.
Bear in mind that the existing format is largely & expensively self-funded, so in theory it would be cheaper to run elims - but is that what the paying public want ?
The Jury is out on this one and we are looking at all options...
One thing is for sure - it will be a Stellar Year....
Jon - As a 'demo class' we are caught between two stools - demo or eliminations...
The public want to see the teams run as much as possible, whereas some 'hard-core' fans(but not all) want to see eliminations. Most teams want to run as much as poss, so as to get experience and tuning data. As we run it at present,(a points series) the 1/2/3 positions are decided at the end of the season, which seems to satisfy most criteria, but not all....
In the USA the Altereds run as a 'booked-in Show' and get paid for it, not as eliminations. Sometimes if the Track Operator requires it and has the money, they run-off the two fastest cars, to get a 'Winner' and 'Runner-Up'.
Bear in mind that the existing format is largely & expensively self-funded, so in theory it would be cheaper to run elims - but is that what the paying public want ?
The Jury is out on this one and we are looking at all options...
One thing is for sure - it will be a Stellar Year....
LWG said:
Dilligaf - We will be at SCR for some meets, awaiting Jerry's input for others. Apart from one occasion (high temps), the track prep was excellent and many PB's set - looking for more this year. Chaos and The Mob have invested heavily in new engines AND a common spare short block with refurbed heads to boot - we are really determined to get more than one or two runs per meeting ! Expect 10 - 12 Teams to appear.....
One thing is for sure - it will be a Stellar Year....
One thing is for sure - it will be a Stellar Year....
I am also determined that you get as many runs as possible and I am sure if we work together we WILL make this happen! I think the decision has to be made regarding eliminations as to whether NFAA want to be a true "race" class or an "entertainment" class. I do not mean anything derogatory with that remark by any means but it does have a bearing on the number of runs made.
Benni said:
Hello Dilligaf / Richard !
Hmmmmm.....former cars : Chevy engined Opel..... ??
What model was ist, what were your best times and where did it end up ?
Hmmmmm.....former cars : Chevy
engined Opel..... ?? What model was ist, what were your best times and where did it end up ?
who drives a 77 Opel Kadett C /Chevy Chevette station wagon,slightly ratty
It was an Opel Diplomat and never run on the strip. It had a 327 Chev in as standard and I used it surprise people on the road! Bodywork rotted away in the end so sold running gear for a profit.
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