Murdoch under fire from two sides.

[Derek Smith]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/me...

Nice to see despite all the pressures on him that Murdoch still has a sense of humour. He's been twittering since the start of the year and has recently criticised those who have monopolies. Got to laugh really. Unless, of course, you are one of those companies he's been attacking.

Further, he's been having a go at Cameron for allowing people special privileges just because they have money and influence. This from the bloke who had a special one-to-one with Thatcher immediately before one of his take-overs was not referred to the monopolies commission. And then there’s Blair, followed closely by Cameron. He's a funny old bloke.

The Aussie link sounds a bit serious. There does seem to have been a rising resentment against him out there over recent years. Now this person who rejected Aussieland has been found, they suggest, attacking home-grown television companies and more.

Then there was the attack on ITV in this country, recently the subject of a Panorama exposé.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01dlvbm/Pano...

Well worth a viewing.

So just the three continents where his activities are under close scrutiny. Still time for Asia and Africa.

It is possible that we are seeing the collapse of the biggest media empire the world has seen. It is happening before our eyes, in slow motion. The Levenson enquiry went from the leader to a bit part player in no time at all. It is unfortunate that this country's leaders, at least the political ones, have been part of it.

It will take a few years yet I think before it ends but it does seem to be well under way.

[frosted]

The man is a toned down version of Doctor Evil and James only wants dolphins with fricking laser beams on their heads.

I hope his whole empire goes bankrupt, it wouldn't take much as he is sitting on a lot of debt and if the banks close the taps he will be truly fked like in the 90s

I like how everyone employed by him is a former constabulary or ex minister

[RDMcG]

The real danger for him is the US Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. If News Corp is found guilty of serious criminal activity in any part of the world it can trigger a US federal suit and then there is huge trouble for the whole unit.

[Derek Smith]

I've just walked into the village. It is a quiet place, very upmarket, shoe shops still open, a pastisserie, two flower shops, lots of titled people and a gay vicar. All mod cons of middle England one might say. We were waiting to be served in a little cafe - lots of them as well - and the bloke on the table next to me threw his paper on the table and said 'bloody Murdoch'.

He apologised to me, after a nudge from his wife, for his language (it's that posh) and we got into a conversation about Murdoch. Then a chap on another table joined in. Everyone expressed hated for the bloke. When I mentioned Thatcher and him having tiffin before he was not referred to the monopolies commission, one chap, the poshest one, said that he didn't think that was right, but I was supported by the other one.

A couple of stories came from one chap and the other used to work for the Mirror (in an advisory capacity) and mentioned that they had a (another?) crooked boss whose corrupt practices were hidden from the public for years despite everyone knowing about them. The phrase nothing changes was used and it caused me and the other chap to nod wisely.

It was nice to meet two people who had experience of papers whose hatred of Murdoch was based on what they knew rather than, in my case, what I've read and been forced to read.

But the point remains: everyone it would appear knew of what NI was up to but no one did anything. It wasn't a conspiracy as such as there was no organisation. It was just allowed to continue.

Bloody Murdoch: a very serious rebuke from someone whose poshness was very apparent.

I then returned to my, somewhat lower class, area.

[KaraK]

Derek Smith said:

Then there was the attack on ITV in this country, recently the subject of a Panorama exposé.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01dlvbm/Pano...

Well worth a viewing.

I saw most of that - and while if NI/NDS were doing what they were accused of they need to have a large heavy book thrown at them. But the peurile suggestions by Panorama that the pirate viewing cards were enough to bring down ONITVdigital on their own or even have any substantial impact on them are laughable.

[DJRC]

Derek Smith said:

I've just walked into the village. It is a quiet place, very upmarket, shoe shops still open, a pastisserie, two flower shops, lots of titled people and a gay vicar. All mod cons of middle England one might say. We were waiting to be served in a little cafe - lots of them as well - and the bloke on the table next to me threw his paper on the table and said 'bloody Murdoch'.

He apologised to me, after a nudge from his wife, for his language (it's that posh) and we got into a conversation about Murdoch. Then a chap on another table joined in. Everyone expressed hated for the bloke. When I mentioned Thatcher and him having tiffin before he was not referred to the monopolies commission, one chap, the poshest one, said that he didn't think that was right, but I was supported by the other one.

A couple of stories came from one chap and the other used to work for the Mirror (in an advisory capacity) and mentioned that they had a (another?) crooked boss whose corrupt practices were hidden from the public for years despite everyone knowing about them. The phrase nothing changes was used and it caused me and the other chap to nod wisely.

It was nice to meet two people who had experience of papers whose hatred of Murdoch was based on what they knew rather than, in my case, what I've read and been forced to read.

But the point remains: everyone it would appear knew of what NI was up to but no one did anything. It wasn't a conspiracy as such as there was no organisation. It was just allowed to continue.

Bloody Murdoch: a very serious rebuke from someone whose poshness was very apparent.

I then returned to my, somewhat lower class, area.

I dont wish to appear dumb, but are you talking about the phone hacking, i.e. that it had been going on for years?

[Eric Mc]

The most recent revelations are about hacking codes for rival TV stations' digital smart cards and then ensuring that the codes were distributed through the internet and into the public domain.

On Digital was the subject of the Panorama programme and they did perhaps over-egg the role the alleged NI/DNS hacking caused in its demise.

But that is almost beside the point. The assertion that a top and important media operation deliberately indulged in practices designed to completely undermine potential rivals is the main issue. And it appears that similar activities were afoot elsewhere.

[Derek Smith]

KaraK said:

I saw most of that - and while if NI/NDS were doing what they were accused of they need to have a large heavy book thrown at them. But the peurile suggestions by Panorama that the pirate viewing cards were enough to bring down ONITVdigital on their own or even have any substantial impact on them are laughable.

I would have thought that the degree of the harm it caused is of limited importance. If the suggestion is true that they did indeed try to harm OD by corrupt practices then that is enough to show culpability. It could not have helped.

[roachcoach]

Eric Mc said:

But that is almost beside the point. The assertion that a top and important media operation deliberately indulged in practices designed to completely undermine potential rivals is the main issue. And it appears that similar activities were afoot elsewhere.

I'm sure that goes on almost everywhere, one springing to mind is the Virgin/BA fight years back.

Not saying its right/wrong but I'm pretty sure everyone is at it to one degree or another.

[tank slapper]

Dirty tricks are nothing new. The high-speed ferry business operating from Dover also suffered from dodgy practices from their competitors, and I'm sure there are many more examples.

[KaraK]

Derek Smith said:

KaraK said:

I saw most of that - and while if NI/NDS were doing what they were accused of they need to have a large heavy book thrown at them. But the peurile suggestions by Panorama that the pirate viewing cards were enough to bring down ONITVdigital on their own or even have any substantial impact on them are laughable.

I would have thought that the degree of the harm it caused is of limited importance. If the suggestion is true that they did indeed try to harm OD by corrupt practices then that is enough to show culpability. It could not have helped.

Oh I absolutely agree that this sort of act is not to be tolerated regardless of it's effectiveness - I just don't approve of shoddy reporting just to try and make a documentary sound dramatic. The alleged actions are bad enough on their own and don't need "sexing up".

[frosted]

KaraK said:

I saw most of that - and while if NI/NDS were doing what they were accused of they need to have a large heavy book thrown at them. But the peurile suggestions by Panorama that the pirate viewing cards were enough to bring down ONITVdigital on their own or even have any substantial impact on them are laughable.

Explain further please as you seem to think they could operate at a loss for ever ? Even I had a ondigital card, tbh I was 16 at the time and didn't understand much, just like everyone else that ran a chipped box from TELEWEST or whatever it was called back then.

[roachcoach]

frosted said:

KaraK said:

I saw most of that - and while if NI/NDS were doing what they were accused of they need to have a large heavy book thrown at them. But the peurile suggestions by Panorama that the pirate viewing cards were enough to bring down ONITVdigital on their own or even have any substantial impact on them are laughable.

Explain further please as you seem to think they could operate at a loss for ever ? Even I had a ondigital card, tbh I was 16 at the time and didn't understand much, just like everyone else that ran a chipped box from NTL or whatever it was called back then.

This explains it a bit better

ETA:

TLDR said:

And frankly, it doesn't matter. When ONdigital aka ITV Digital collapsed in early 2002, the company said there were 100,000 counterfeit smart cards in circulation for its service. It had a subscriber base of 1.3 million, compared to Sky Digital's 5.7 million: so whatever killed ONdigital, it wasn't pirate smartcards

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 29th March 15:08

[frosted]

roachcoach said:

frosted said:

KaraK said:

I saw most of that - and while if NI/NDS were doing what they were accused of they need to have a large heavy book thrown at them. But the peurile suggestions by Panorama that the pirate viewing cards were enough to bring down ONITVdigital on their own or even have any substantial impact on them are laughable.

Explain further please as you seem to think they could operate at a loss for ever ? Even I had a ondigital card, tbh I was 16 at the time and didn't understand much, just like everyone else that ran a chipped box from NTL or whatever it was called back then.

This explains it a bit better

ETA:

TLDR said:

And frankly, it doesn't matter. When ONdigital aka ITV Digital collapsed in early 2002, the company said there were 100,000 counterfeit smart cards in circulation for its service. It had a subscriber base of 1.3 million, compared to Sky Digital's 5.7 million: so whatever killed ONdigital, it wasn't pirate smartcards

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 29th March 15:08

As any new service they had issues that would have been ironed out with time, it was difficult getting backing when all customers could get those "smart" cards for free and dwindling income from subscription especially after paying to broadcast live football

[roachcoach]

I don't know, I actually came across that article not looking for it, (el reg has some decent general tech stuff so I'm there anyway) and it seemed pertinent to the thread

I do know that author of the article as an ardent anti-pirate, if that adds any value to it.

[KaraK]

roachcoach said:

frosted said:

KaraK said:

I saw most of that - and while if NI/NDS were doing what they were accused of they need to have a large heavy book thrown at them. But the peurile suggestions by Panorama that the pirate viewing cards were enough to bring down ONITVdigital on their own or even have any substantial impact on them are laughable.

Explain further please as you seem to think they could operate at a loss for ever ? Even I had a ondigital card, tbh I was 16 at the time and didn't understand much, just like everyone else that ran a chipped box from NTL or whatever it was called back then.

This explains it a bit better

ETA:

TLDR said:

And frankly, it doesn't matter. When ONdigital aka ITV Digital collapsed in early 2002, the company said there were 100,000 counterfeit smart cards in circulation for its service. It had a subscriber base of 1.3 million, compared to Sky Digital's 5.7 million: so whatever killed ONdigital, it wasn't pirate smartcards

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 29th March 15:08

Actually pretty much that ^

ON/ITVdigital's problems went way beyond the piracy (again I'm not condoning it nor trivialising it), they significantly overpaid for content that people didn't really want and their commercial and technical strategies were poor to say the least (some analogies involving piss-ups and breweries come to mind).

[frosted]

roachcoach said:

I don't know, I actually came across that article not looking for it, (el reg has some decent general tech stuff so I'm there anyway) and it seemed pertinent to the thread

I do know that author of the article as an ardent anti-pirate, if that adds any value to it.

You will find that a lot of people are directly and indirectly associated with bskyb, from technicians to police officers

[Eric Mc]

roachcoach said:

Eric Mc said:

But that is almost beside the point. The assertion that a top and important media operation deliberately indulged in practices designed to completely undermine potential rivals is the main issue. And it appears that similar activities were afoot elsewhere.

I'm sure that goes on almost everywhere, one springing to mind is the Virgin/BA fight years back.

Not saying its right/wrong but I'm pretty sure everyone is at it to one degree or another.

Everyone?

I don't think so.
I run a business and I don't bug/hack/steal/sabotage other accountants. And I've never come across one who does. What's more, in dealing with thousands of businesses over a 36 year career, I've never seen a business carfry on like this.

And what does "to one degree or another" actually mean.

I would think deliberately engaging in possible illegal practice to sabotage a business rival is stretching the limits somewhat - especially when taken in the context of the other nefarious activities the organisation is engaged in.

[roachcoach]

Well, perhaps I'm wrong, but I would be stunned to see this as an isolated case of dirty tricks by a large company.

Granted this particular one would be illegal, but to think all corporations apart from Murdochs play by some sort of code of honour....I have a hard time believing that.

ETA: To one degree or another meant just that. As I say, the virgin BA spat, or supermarkets selling the latest console game at a loss to kill the competition because they can soak that up, driving down farmer margins, look at all the anti-trust law cases with various 'big tech' companies. This stuff is everywhere if you look.

Dirty tricks are a matter of ethics (except, obviously, where illegal) but as I say, I'd be flabbergasted to find a single corporation being the sole offender.

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 29th March 17:53

[frosted]

I see what your saying however using your example how would you feel if Tescos hired a bunch of people to break into sainsburys warehouse and smash all those consoles to bits before they even went on the shelf ?