Super Aguri quickest at Jerez !
Discussion
OK it's early in the New Year and we all know about set up, fuel loads , tyre compounds etc etc but Anthony Davidson's Super Aguri was substantially quicker than the 2 Renaults and Rosberg's Williams at Jerez yesterday.
Not the kind of headline we could have dreamt of a year ago, suggests the team has made a bit of progress . Could they embarass mega-buck Toyota (with their very conservative new car)this year ?
Not the kind of headline we could have dreamt of a year ago, suggests the team has made a bit of progress . Could they embarass mega-buck Toyota (with their very conservative new car)this year ?
Why do the media take any notice of winter test times?
Teams are running well planned test schedules to evaluate new aero parts, trying out tyre compounds, fuel loads etc etc. The times mean nothing. If anyone thinks that Davidson will pop the 06 Honda onto pole in Melbourne in a few weeks has their head in the sand!!
Winter test times never prove anything, and it's amazing what times you can get with fresh rubber and just a tank running on fumes...
Don't believe the hype, just wait for the first few races to show us who's worked well over the winter months.
Teams are running well planned test schedules to evaluate new aero parts, trying out tyre compounds, fuel loads etc etc. The times mean nothing. If anyone thinks that Davidson will pop the 06 Honda onto pole in Melbourne in a few weeks has their head in the sand!!
Winter test times never prove anything, and it's amazing what times you can get with fresh rubber and just a tank running on fumes...
Don't believe the hype, just wait for the first few races to show us who's worked well over the winter months.
mg511 said:
jacobyte said:
If Super Aguri are quick, how quick will Honda be?
You mean will the '07 Honda be quicker than the '06 Honda...
One would expect so. If Super Aguri is x seconds a lap faster than last year, you would expect Honda to take a similar step forwards. Which theoretically puts them in a very strong position.
But with everyone doing installation laps, and the Super Aguri doing many high speed runs, it's all talk and no trousers. Honda were quickest in last year's testing, and McLaren are usually up there, along with the occasional blinder form an underweight low-ranking car.
Apart from the fact very little attention should be paid to winter testing times, SA are running a developed car which this was the first proper test for the new Renault. There is much data to be collected before a new car can think about going for times - most telling would be the amount of running Renault have been getting out of their cars and how frequently they have been stopping with problems..
FourWheelDrift said:
Leading times (January 19) - Jerez:
1. Heikki Kovalainen Renault-Renault 1min 19.183secs 56 laps
2. Giancarlo Fisichella Renault-Renault 1min 20.478secs 113 laps
3. Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1min 20.688secs 119 laps
1. Heikki Kovalainen Renault-Renault 1min 19.183secs 56 laps
2. Giancarlo Fisichella Renault-Renault 1min 20.478secs 113 laps
3. Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1min 20.688secs 119 laps
You seemed to have missed the SA that split the two Renaults, i can definitely remember that an SA hit around 1:19.6
Locoblade said:
I think they are using the Honda chassis in testing, look rather similar to me....
No, they only look similar because they are using Honda aero mods I should imagine. But the cars are the Super Aguri's that Sato and Yamamoto/Ide/Montagny drove. The regs are so tight and SA are undoubtedly using some Honda 06 bits they look similar, as do most cars in F1.
SA will be unveiling their 2007 soon (which will by all accounts be the 06 Honda) see below.
Crash.net said:
Super Aguri are looking forward to the next F1 test in their schedule as they continue to cause surprises with their sudden upturn in pace, the team only using an interim version of the car that struggled throughout the 2006 season.
The perennial back markers of the season due to the their rushed conception and a car that could trace its chassis back to 2003, Super Aguri have turned heads with their speed in winter testing ahead of the launch of the controversial SA07, which is expected to be a lightly reworked version of last year's Honda.
Indeed, with Anthony Davidson in particular pacing with Renault and their new R27 throughout the week at Jerez, sporting director Graham Taylor cannot wait for the team to get back on track at Valencia and test their mettle against what will be a more comprehensive line-up of rivals.
"We have had a very satisfying test this week with the car displaying impressive reliability. Taku had a good day today, picking up from where Anthony left off, helping with the development of the control systems and furthering our understanding of the Bridgestone Potenza tyre. The team is already looking forward to our next test in Valencia in two weeks."
Davidson too has been thrilled with the performance of the car this week, particularly the reliability from the Honda engine they will use in 2007
"It was a very successful test for us in Jerez. On the two days that I drove we managed to improve our traction control and continue learning about the new Bridgestone Potenza tyres. We made further progress on the balance of the car and the Honda engine was reliable once again, so we were able to cover 259 laps over the two days."
No it's not the 06 Honda. Officially they cannot run it because they haven't launched this years car yet, if they are running the 06 Honda this season. As soon as they do the other teams will appeal as AFAIK they have not been given the go ahead to use a customer chassis, so testing or not the other teams would be appealing over it's use.
This is the 2006 Super Aguri SA06 it is not a Honda.
www.saf1.co.jp/en/machine/mchn_sa06.html
From China
all they've done is change the rear wing and some of the aero to test the Honda 06 package, it's been called an interim car and has been dubbed the SAF1, but it's still the SA06 under the new bits.
This is the 2006 Super Aguri SA06 it is not a Honda.
www.saf1.co.jp/en/machine/mchn_sa06.html
From China
all they've done is change the rear wing and some of the aero to test the Honda 06 package, it's been called an interim car and has been dubbed the SAF1, but it's still the SA06 under the new bits.
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Saturday 20th January 23:58
I know the SA06 was using quite a few Honda developed aero towards the end of last season, and I agree they look quite similar in that respect, but Im still 99.9% certain the car they are now using in testing dubbed the "interim car" is to all intents and purposes the 06 Honda, not the old car with Honda aero bolted on. Im sure theyve only called it an interim car because they're probably developing a few more bits before official launch (maybe to make it less RA06-like), and also probably to keep the other teams guessing whether they'll run a wholesale RA06, or something significantly different. The thing is they can run anything they like in testing though, they don't have to wait until any official launch to run the car, they can also run underweight if they like, can run old cars, other people's cars, basically whatever they like, technically its only at scrutineering on the first GP where the other teams can appeal against it, so it makes complete sense to start running the car ASAP.
If you look at your pic above, there are quite a few differences. The SA06 has conventional bargeboards unlike the RA06 and Aguri "interim" car, and the fact the SA06 kept them throughout the year would suggest the fundamental chassis design of the Arrows needed them to give good airflow under and around the car. In the same area the additional sideplate wing on front of the sidepod is completely different, but again identical on the interim and RA06, as is the position/shape of the hole through the tub for the crane to lift the car off the circuit (not something they'd need to or be able to change very easily). Now follow the aero off the back of the sidepod over the rear wheel, again its identical on the RA06 / Aguri test car, stopping several inches before the rear wheel whereas the SA06 goes right over the rear wheel. Then there's the nose which is higher and much more hooked on the old Aguri, and the front wing is completely different and sits much higher relative to the nose because of the lower nose on the RA06/interim car.
If you look at your pic above, there are quite a few differences. The SA06 has conventional bargeboards unlike the RA06 and Aguri "interim" car, and the fact the SA06 kept them throughout the year would suggest the fundamental chassis design of the Arrows needed them to give good airflow under and around the car. In the same area the additional sideplate wing on front of the sidepod is completely different, but again identical on the interim and RA06, as is the position/shape of the hole through the tub for the crane to lift the car off the circuit (not something they'd need to or be able to change very easily). Now follow the aero off the back of the sidepod over the rear wheel, again its identical on the RA06 / Aguri test car, stopping several inches before the rear wheel whereas the SA06 goes right over the rear wheel. Then there's the nose which is higher and much more hooked on the old Aguri, and the front wing is completely different and sits much higher relative to the nose because of the lower nose on the RA06/interim car.
Edited by Locoblade on Sunday 21st January 05:13
Locoblade said:
I think they are using the Honda chassis in testing, look rather similar to me....
Ant Davidson in Jerez last week:
Jenson from German GP last year:
Ant Davidson in Jerez last week:
Jenson from German GP last year:
Edited by Locoblade on Saturday 20th January 21:06
We can't see the chasis, but shirley a simple change to that by SA would make it non Honda, no ?
Aero mods cost a fortune in development do they not ?
Wind tunnels are what £30-40million to install.
Locoblade said:
I know the SA06 was using quite a few Honda developed aero towards the end of last season, and I agree they look quite similar in that respect, but Im still 99.9% certain the car they are now using in testing dubbed the "interim car" is to all intents and purposes the 06 Honda, not the old car with Honda aero bolted on.
So you are telling us all the motorsports media reporters and team managers are wrong?
Again as I said, there has been no allowance for a team to run a customer chassis yet ( all the teams had to allow it and I think Midland/Spyker have not agreed as they would end up being the big losers). Super Aguri are launching their new car next month. This is believed to be based on the 2006 Honda, if they do there will be much moaning from the other teams. IF they were already running the 2006 Honda then the other teams would know about it and would be complaining about it. They have very good spotters and spies in the pitlane to know if they were or not.
Locoblade said:
If you look at your pic above, there are quite a few differences. The SA06 has conventional bargeboards unlike the RA06 and Aguri "interim" car, and the fact the SA06 kept them throughout the year would suggest the fundamental chassis design of the Arrows needed them to give good airflow under and around the car.
And so we have the reason you're getting confused. It's not an Arrows Super Aguri built their own car and introduced it at Silverstone (or just after), that photo I posted is from China (only good side on I could find of the SA06), not even the last race of the season. Remember teams modify cars for each race they go to and introduce new parts throughout the whole season so in later races it would slightly different too with modified barge boards or ideas copied from other teams. Since they are being supplied with Honda engines and "expertise" and likely to be running their old car this year (probably under appeal) it makes sense for them to see what effect "their" aero parts have on an F1 car compared to their own, hence they are using a few of their old bits. Due to the nature of the aerodynamically designed parts of an F1 car you cannot add a new barge board without adding all of the parts behind and around it that makes it effective. Change something at the front and you will end up changing everything back down the car to help channel the new airflow.
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Sunday 21st January 13:07
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