How hard is a GT3 to drive quickly?
Discussion
Aside from the usual GT3 v TT argument, how difficult are GT3s to drive quickly? I'm aware of the physics involved in the 911, and my 964RS was never a handful, however, several reviews of the GT3RS and reviews of the GT3 around the Ring (old Evo article) suggest that to extract a fast lap in a GT3 demands a lot more skill/concentration than other cars capable of similar times. (albeit these opinions are from journalists...)
What are peoples thoughts on this?
GT3 owners - have you had any close shaves on track, e.g. spins,etc.
Do people find that geo mods make a massive difference to the stability of the car. Tyre choice obviously also plays an important role here....
In interested in the opinions of existing owners or those who have driven their cars fast/on track, rather than people reciting journalists opinions!!
What are peoples thoughts on this?
GT3 owners - have you had any close shaves on track, e.g. spins,etc.
Do people find that geo mods make a massive difference to the stability of the car. Tyre choice obviously also plays an important role here....
In interested in the opinions of existing owners or those who have driven their cars fast/on track, rather than people reciting journalists opinions!!
To drive a GT3 quickly i would do the following ( Im still trying )
Once you get the car go to a flat circuit with lots of run off ie-Bedford
and gradually get to know the car -everyone who has had a GT3 has spun there
as the saying goes if your not spinning youre not trying :
Once you have got to know how the performs as standard you can then add -sticky tyres,
uprated brakes and suspension set ups etc
Then get some tuition by someone who understands or have raced a 911
Ive done over 40K in my RSs and Im still learning more and more about the car
at every trackday
Its the best car I have ever driven excluding a Carrera GT !
Tim
Once you get the car go to a flat circuit with lots of run off ie-Bedford
and gradually get to know the car -everyone who has had a GT3 has spun there
as the saying goes if your not spinning youre not trying :
Once you have got to know how the performs as standard you can then add -sticky tyres,
uprated brakes and suspension set ups etc
Then get some tuition by someone who understands or have raced a 911
Ive done over 40K in my RSs and Im still learning more and more about the car
at every trackday
Its the best car I have ever driven excluding a Carrera GT !
Tim
Just take your time. I would start with instruction before modifying the car in any way. Get in touch with Bernard Aubrey initially (if he'll do a GT3 - he has a bad back IIRC), then try to get some on-track instruction. You'll be grand after that, and provided you're ready to walk before you run, you'll soon be chucking the GT3 around comfortably.
timmo said:
To drive a GT3 quickly i would do the following ( Im still trying )
Once you get the car go to a flat circuit with lots of run off ie-Bedford
and gradually get to know the car -everyone who has had a GT3 has spun there
as the saying goes if your not spinning youre not trying :
Once you have got to know how the performs as standard you can then add -sticky tyres,
uprated brakes and suspension set ups etc
Then get some tuition by someone who understands or have raced a 911
Ive done over 40K in my RSs and Im still learning more and more about the car
at every trackday
Its the best car I have ever driven excluding a Carrera GT !
Tim
Once you get the car go to a flat circuit with lots of run off ie-Bedford
and gradually get to know the car -everyone who has had a GT3 has spun there
as the saying goes if your not spinning youre not trying :
Once you have got to know how the performs as standard you can then add -sticky tyres,
uprated brakes and suspension set ups etc
Then get some tuition by someone who understands or have raced a 911
Ive done over 40K in my RSs and Im still learning more and more about the car
at every trackday
Its the best car I have ever driven excluding a Carrera GT !
Tim
Amen!
If you are confident in a 964 RS then a GT3 shouldn't phase you, on the road or track.
Certainly needs caution in the wet, but no more so than any other car with the same power to weight ratio.
Standard setup is biased towards understeer. Very safe unless you are cackhanded or deliberately trying to make it go sideways.
Regular 911 golden rules apply...slow in - fast out, brake in a straight line, don't suddenly jump off the power with lots of lock applied
etc...
Owners tracking their car tend to increase front camber to kill the understeer and thus increase cornering speeds. This does make the car more sensitive on the road.
The low ride height and subsequently limited wheel travel means the car is not great over bumps or broken tarmac. It'll skip and fidget around. You have to be careful especially when applying power in lower gears. Generally though traction and grip is immense.
Best advice is to take it easy to begin with. Make sure the suspension is setup properly and the tyres are good.
Trackdays are fantastic because you can safely explore the handling limits and unless you are totally insensitive the car tells you loud and clear what's going on underneath you. Instantly makes you a better more confident driver on the road.
You'll be whizzing around chasing Radicals in no time.
Certainly needs caution in the wet, but no more so than any other car with the same power to weight ratio.
Standard setup is biased towards understeer. Very safe unless you are cackhanded or deliberately trying to make it go sideways.
Regular 911 golden rules apply...slow in - fast out, brake in a straight line, don't suddenly jump off the power with lots of lock applied
etc... Owners tracking their car tend to increase front camber to kill the understeer and thus increase cornering speeds. This does make the car more sensitive on the road.
The low ride height and subsequently limited wheel travel means the car is not great over bumps or broken tarmac. It'll skip and fidget around. You have to be careful especially when applying power in lower gears. Generally though traction and grip is immense.
Best advice is to take it easy to begin with. Make sure the suspension is setup properly and the tyres are good.
Trackdays are fantastic because you can safely explore the handling limits and unless you are totally insensitive the car tells you loud and clear what's going on underneath you. Instantly makes you a better more confident driver on the road.
You'll be whizzing around chasing Radicals in no time.
fergus said:
HOW HARD IS A GT3 TO DRIVE QUICKLY
In a straight line, very easy
those pesky corners are the challenge to execute quickly in a GT3 / RS... But what a great challenge. Anyone can drive a fly by wire, computer controlled 4WD jap wagon fast but where is the challenge when the computer makes you look like a hero?
<waits for flaming from jap wagon crew
> My own experience of tracking my GT3 has been a steep learning curve but as Tim says, you learn the hard way. You WILL end up spinning at some point even at relatively low speed when you have the balance all wrong. Learn the basics at a track like bedford where the scenery can't hurt you and progress from there.
Steve
fergus said:
thanks for the posts guys.
how do people feel about highish mileage GT3s (i.e. >50k)?
how do people feel about highish mileage GT3s (i.e. >50k)?
Depends where the miles have come from? It's a very durable car but if a lot of those miles have been done on track then obviously it aint gonna be showroom fresh.
There's a good choice of GT3's on Autotrader (and a few on pistonheads). That'll give you a feel for prices.
If it were me, I would go for the freshest, lowest mileage, best condition example I could find within my budget. Plenty of low mileage cars around. If you go for higher mileage make sure it's reflected in the price you pay.
Hi fergus
I was at Donington last year and drove a 964 RS and mk1 GT3 back to back and found the GT3 easier that the 964 RS - lighter controls and a little more stable at speed through the fast corners. The GT3 was on Dunlop SSRs and had a mild set up - very progressive and drifted nicely. They handle well and shouldn't pose any problems for someone of your experience (we have a friend in common). The 964 RS was on a medium track set up on Michelin cups and felt glued to the road. Once warmed up the tyres really stuck and the car was very quick.
If you get a good car, a decent set up and tyres will make it easy. I think it is the sort of car that you can jump in to and drive with confidence if you have some experience. And then there is always plenty of room for improvement.
I was at Donington last year and drove a 964 RS and mk1 GT3 back to back and found the GT3 easier that the 964 RS - lighter controls and a little more stable at speed through the fast corners. The GT3 was on Dunlop SSRs and had a mild set up - very progressive and drifted nicely. They handle well and shouldn't pose any problems for someone of your experience (we have a friend in common). The 964 RS was on a medium track set up on Michelin cups and felt glued to the road. Once warmed up the tyres really stuck and the car was very quick.
If you get a good car, a decent set up and tyres will make it easy. I think it is the sort of car that you can jump in to and drive with confidence if you have some experience. And then there is always plenty of room for improvement.
glenn mcmenamin said:
Are you thinking about getting one then F ??
still going to the ring on the 18th ???
G.
still going to the ring on the 18th ???
G.
Glenn
If I can fit behind the wheel OK. I'd need to junk the 38cm wheel and fit a 35cm, deeply dished wheel instead. I'm *really* struggling with headroom in them, so need to speak to Parr/JZM,etc about how much I can lower the seat, even if it means gettting rid of the door card to allow different side mounts to be used.
I will be at the 'Ring in 2 weeks time - asuming my caterham gearbox has been rebuilt (3rd time lucky). If it leaks any oil again, I am going to set fire to it, and we can have a car park BBQ.
I'll drop you a PM offline.
cheers
fergus said:
Aside from the usual GT3 v TT argument, how difficult are GT3s to drive quickly? I'm aware of the physics involved in the 911, and my 964RS was never a handful, however, several reviews of the GT3RS and reviews of the GT3 around the Ring (old Evo article) suggest that to extract a fast lap in a GT3 demands a lot more skill/concentration than other cars capable of similar times. (albeit these opinions are from journalists...)
What are peoples thoughts on this?
GT3 owners - have you had any close shaves on track, e.g. spins,etc.
Do people find that geo mods make a massive difference to the stability of the car. Tyre choice obviously also plays an important role here....
In interested in the opinions of existing owners or those who have driven their cars fast/on track, rather than people reciting journalists opinions!!
What are peoples thoughts on this?
GT3 owners - have you had any close shaves on track, e.g. spins,etc.
Do people find that geo mods make a massive difference to the stability of the car. Tyre choice obviously also plays an important role here....
In interested in the opinions of existing owners or those who have driven their cars fast/on track, rather than people reciting journalists opinions!!
Up to 9/10ths the car is easy to drive. The last little bit is quite difficult but you would - should - only be near that point on a race track.
Good advice about instruction. Make sure it's with a 911 specialist. Barry horne (2004 Cup champion),is a good instructor
Well I can only speak from 2 weeks of ownership (Mk2 GT3) but the car takes a little learning when you have never owned, driven at length or raced a Porsche previously. It is very quick make no mistake, but on a bumpy B road it needs to be 'managed' to go quickly, which for me is the whole fun of the thing. Traction is as you would expect which is married to stunning steering feel, which is scalpel sharp, but I am having to play myself into the weight characteristics of the car. If you already have a Porsche you will be comfortable with these of course but I am coming from lots of RWD front engined cars so its taking some getting used to, though I am getting better with each mile.
I plan to track the car when I get time, and I am off to MIRA for a free Porsche day tomorrow (result!) so will be able to explore the 911 to a much greater extent there. There is no question the GT3 is fast it just takes learning to get the confidence to commit it to a corner, which grows and grows with each mile. As with any car its all in the feel, and the GT3 has feel to throw away. I am finding that with miles I gain confidence and commitment and I suspect that any owner will find the same. Its not hard to drive fast (on the road) but as Steve says above I can imagine at that final 10th its a little bit of an art, though an art that any good or capable drive should be able to tune into, in good time.
I don't think it is a difficult car to drive quickly, I think its a car than needs to be understood before you can get the most from it, and that is the stage I am at and enjoying imensely!
I plan to track the car when I get time, and I am off to MIRA for a free Porsche day tomorrow (result!) so will be able to explore the 911 to a much greater extent there. There is no question the GT3 is fast it just takes learning to get the confidence to commit it to a corner, which grows and grows with each mile. As with any car its all in the feel, and the GT3 has feel to throw away. I am finding that with miles I gain confidence and commitment and I suspect that any owner will find the same. Its not hard to drive fast (on the road) but as Steve says above I can imagine at that final 10th its a little bit of an art, though an art that any good or capable drive should be able to tune into, in good time.
I don't think it is a difficult car to drive quickly, I think its a car than needs to be understood before you can get the most from it, and that is the stage I am at and enjoying imensely!
steve rance said:
fergus said:
Aside from the usual GT3 v TT argument, how difficult are GT3s to drive quickly? I'm aware of the physics involved in the 911, and my 964RS was never a handful, however, several reviews of the GT3RS and reviews of the GT3 around the Ring (old Evo article) suggest that to extract a fast lap in a GT3 demands a lot more skill/concentration than other cars capable of similar times. (albeit these opinions are from journalists...)
What are peoples thoughts on this?
GT3 owners - have you had any close shaves on track, e.g. spins,etc.
Do people find that geo mods make a massive difference to the stability of the car. Tyre choice obviously also plays an important role here....
In interested in the opinions of existing owners or those who have driven their cars fast/on track, rather than people reciting journalists opinions!!
What are peoples thoughts on this?
GT3 owners - have you had any close shaves on track, e.g. spins,etc.
Do people find that geo mods make a massive difference to the stability of the car. Tyre choice obviously also plays an important role here....
In interested in the opinions of existing owners or those who have driven their cars fast/on track, rather than people reciting journalists opinions!!
Up to 9/10ths the car is easy to drive. The last little bit is quite difficult but you would - should - only be near that point on a race track.
Good advice about instruction. Make sure it's with a 911 specialist. Barry horne (2004 Cup champion),is a good instructor
francisb said:
Merritt said:
waits for flaming from jap wagon crew
Steve
Steve
LOL, ok i'll bite; a well driven blue GT3 will stay ahead of an old £5k impreza with no electronics. just. on a dry day.
Lol - it was quite comedy following you around for a few laps though Francis... Your impreza didn't know which way it was going next! I'll try and dig out the video footage and post it up
Edited to ask, do you still have the 64RS? If so have you managed to quieten it down!?
Steve
Edited by Merritt on Tuesday 8th August 10:14
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