Monday 29th January 2007

Porsche boss attacks EU plans

Emissions targets hurt Germans most

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Porsche GT3

Porsche's boss has warned that the EU's latest emissions regulations constitute an attack on Germany's luxury carmakers by France and Italy.

Company CEO Wendelin Wiedeking made the comments at the firm's annual shareholders' meeting on Friday, and highlight that Porsche's products -- along with many of those from Audi, BMW and Mercedes -- are way above proposed new limits. Wiedeking  called it a business war in Europe -- and said that Porsche would fight back.

In characterising it as a fight between small carmakers in France and Italy on the one hand and German carmakers on the other, he didn't apparently mention that while Italy's Fiat is unlikely to have problems with absolute emissions limits, Italian firms Ferrari and Maserati almost certainly will.

At stake is the EU's plan to reduce cars' emissions to 120 grammes per kilometre by 2012, according to the FT -- Porsche products' average emissions are over twice as high,  with the 2.7-litre engine shared between the Boxster and Cayman emitting 222 g/km, while the 911 Turbo puts out 307g/km. Don't mention the Cayenne.

However, as a relatively low-volume seller -- it sells 96,000 cars a year while VW sells over five million -- Porsche is currently exempted from the voluntary targets. This is no guarantee that the situation will remain so.

Among other announcements at the meeting was a huge jump in revenues: pre-tax profit rose from €278 million to €1.45 billion, which means that the company makes over €15,000 per car -- almost £10,000 -- massively more than any other carmaker.

Much of that profit has been spent over the last year buying shares in VW, of which it now owns 27.4 per cent.

[Oddball RS]

Maybe BMW and Merc should stop the who can put the biggest engine in a saloon competition then?

[loach]

Invest some of the profits in lightening your cars, Wendy. Porsche has traditionally made a lot of money from its R+D. It doesn't seem to do as much of that these days - though it has been a while since Porsche engineers were allowed to sharpen their teeth there on a works racing programme. The CGT could have been a great one; but we'll never know. Technology costs money, and I think a judgement has been made that the customers don't give much of a toss one way or the other. Wiedeking is sharp, but I don't think he has much vision, and I certainly don't think he views his tenure at Porsche as one of stewardship of a great old motoring ship with traditions and values to be cherished. He'll battle on like a wily old book-keeper to resist anything that costs money or damages the amazing bottom line he's engineered on the cars he sells. A fantastic businessman he is, but not a great leader, I think.

[loach]

loach said:

same old crap

Blame the EU for the fact that cars generally have become heavier and heavier. Blame yourself, too. I mean - it wasn't long ago that you'd have happily bought a car without electric and heated seats, navigation, airbags or a telephone - now you insist on this sort of stuff. Wiedeking's responsibility first and foremost is to keep Porsche in rude health - and it's obviously working given that sales are at a level Dr. Ferdinand could only dream of. Tradition and heritage don't put food on the table, and beards like yourself should be thankful that Porsche is still there to deliver cars in the first place.

Edited by loach on Monday 29th January 12:27

[Fittster]

Are the targets voluntary for all manufactures of just low-volume ones?

Why is loach arguing with himself?

Edited by Fittster on Monday 29th January 12:36

[pgm]

www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/information/how-to-use-the-data-tables.asp#petrol

current list of below 120 cars, not big is it

[KUB3]

The manufacturers won't make fast light cars in general as they are afraid no one will buy their more expensive offerings. Many years ago VW hinted at a possible 200bhp 4WD lupo. That never happened so you now need a golf GTI for the same poke - at maybe 50% extra weight and cost.

I'm amazed one of the jap superbike makers doesn't release a scorching hot hatch with low weight. Evo pace for golf money. A move like that would possibly shake up some of the other makers.

[loach]

Fittster said:

Are the targets voluntary for all manufactures of just low-volume ones?

Why is loach arguing with himself?

It's what I do, buddy. It lets me know when the medication is wearing off. Also, I've got to dash soon for a trip, so figured contradicting myself would save someone else the time.

[pgm]

the safety rules must make it quite difficult/expensive

[nel]

Typically french approach.

"OK, we're crap at luxury cars and can only sell the ones the peasants buy where the margins are lowest, so what do we do now?"

"I know, let's economically torpedo anyone good at making upper sector cars by banning them! If that doesn't work, we could always send our secret service along to bomb their factories."

[lathamjohnp]

The Lupo 3L had emissions of 81g/km, through low mass, skinny tyres and a small diesel engine (2/3 not bad).

Now that Porsche and VAG are so close, maybe they could re-release that Lupo with some Porsche engineering and a bit more grunt. Would be easy to come in under 120g/km, and they could sell enough to offset all those 911s, Boxsters and Caymans (once they'd ditched the Cayenne, at no great loss to the world).

John

[flemke]

pgm said:

the safety rules must make it quite difficult/expensive

Not if you'd like a car that does 0-60 in 14 seconds and has a top speed of 90.

[DJC]

KUB3 said:

The manufacturers won't make fast light cars in general as they are afraid no one will buy their more expensive offerings. Many years ago VW hinted at a possible 200bhp 4WD lupo. That never happened so you now need a golf GTI for the same poke - at maybe 50% extra weight and cost.

I'm amazed one of the jap superbike makers doesn't release a scorching hot hatch with low weight. Evo pace for golf money. A move like that would possibly shake up some of the other makers.

Engineering through low weight but retaining engineering itegrity in the product is very very expensive! Why do you think Porsche have dropped that approach in recent times? A scorching low weight hot hatch is p1ss easy to produce...you could call it an AX GT if you like. Ahh yes, remember the whole made on tinfoil thing? Now, getting that low weight scorching hot hatch with modern structural requirements is a lot lot harder and more expensive. You can use aluminium or carbon fibre. A tad pricey though. Hmm, alloy extrusions, superformed plastic panels and resin bond them? Ahh, apparently you all think plastic = flimsy and cheap, so ppl wont treat them seriously. You cant do low weight, cheap and easy, you need serious muscle behind you to do it. Porsche followed the low weight philosophy for yrs and it nearly bankrupted the company. Lotus defined the low weight philosophy and it killed the best F1 drivers in the world, went bankrupt, is perennially being sold as the new owners realised how expensive the Lotus way is. It took Lotus 40yrs to make a lightweight reasonably reliable car in the Elise and since then its weight has been continually driven up by the "extras" that ppl want.

[speedyellow]

To show how tough those regs are, a Lotus Exige with a US compliant modern Toyota 1.8 engine which weighs 875kg and does 30-35 mpg still offically produces 208g/km. How bigger more powerful cars are ever going to get near is beond me unless you fake it like the Lexus!

[oppressed mass]

What cr*p, If the Italians and French have to meet the same limits it means that they must work equally / more hard to compete in Porsche's market sector.... and if they cant compete in his sector whats he worried about?

The limits are going to be a challenge for everyone agreed but I can't see how is singles out Porsche, mercedes or BMW, as it will equally affect Lexus, Jaguar, Aston, Lambo, Fezzas, etc etc etc etc.

Maybe he should be happy as he seems to have plenty in the way of spare cash to develop a solution.

What an idiot...

[black s2k]

Of course, there will be some exemption, so the politicos can continue to swan around in their F-segment pluto-barges scot-free, paid for by our taxes!

The average Europrat can exceed that C02 emissions figure, without travelling a single Km!

[2something]

Once the EU has axed one of it's headquarters (thank you France for the extra waste of money) and the farcical need for so much travel between them, they can start worrying about everyone else.

[pgm]

flemke said:

pgm said:

the safety rules must make it quite difficult/expensive

Not if you'd like a car that does 0-60 in 14 seconds and has a top speed of 90.

I'd prefer not run one of those if you don't mind.

[Paul holroyd]

If the EU get what they want what will this mean for the future of motorsport.

The Rolex sorry I mean swatch 24 hours of Daytona...better make that 12 hours Panda's will not make 24 hours.

The 24-hour of Le Mans for French cars, French cars and French cars only…. At least they will win the race at last instead of trying to cheat, extra points if you finish and yes your French.

All the latest news Porsche in Motorsport

[2something]

pgm said:

flemke said:

pgm said:

the safety rules must make it quite difficult/expensive

Not if you'd like a car that does 0-60 in 14 seconds and has a top speed of 90.

I'd prefer not run one of those if you don't mind.

I think you meant to say walk

[burtjp]

Although I think he has forgotten about Lambo, Ferrari & Mazer when mentioning Italy - I do think its good for someone to be taking up this cause because we don't want a situation where small manufacturers are penalised for relatively high emmissions. Otherwise we are going to end up like the US and only have giants in the automotive market and miss out on all the creative stuff the smaller companies do so well in Europe.