Discussion
Thinking of doing my full bike test and for a laugh decided to get some insurance quotes...
If i passed my test yesterday i can insure a 2004 GSX-R thou for £1026.90 TPFT!!
Killing myself has never been so cheap!
Has anyone on here gone from 500cc learner bike to full on thousand cc madness?
Getting a bike and a cheap car for bad weather (as per other thread) is REALLY appealing now, though deffo not starting on the road with a GSXR Thou!)
If i passed my test yesterday i can insure a 2004 GSX-R thou for £1026.90 TPFT!!
Killing myself has never been so cheap!
Has anyone on here gone from 500cc learner bike to full on thousand cc madness?
Getting a bike and a cheap car for bad weather (as per other thread) is REALLY appealing now, though deffo not starting on the road with a GSXR Thou!)
I started a thread last week along the same lines, "first bike with a difference". The general concensus appears to advise something a little more sensible for a little while at least but once you've got a few miles under your belt and a bit of NCB.....fill yer boots!!
I passed my test this Monday and had dreams of a Gixxer-6, Duc 749 etc etc but Mr insurance man doesn't seem to think it's such a good idea!
No bother though, I'll just wait 'til the new year, hope for a good payrise and annual bonus and spunk the lot on a Gixxer-750!
I passed my test this Monday and had dreams of a Gixxer-6, Duc 749 etc etc but Mr insurance man doesn't seem to think it's such a good idea!
No bother though, I'll just wait 'til the new year, hope for a good payrise and annual bonus and spunk the lot on a Gixxer-750!
I would hardly call a 500cc a learner bike 
TBH: I'm not sure why some people have the desire to pass their test and then go and buy the biggest engined bike they can find. A 500cc is more than enough to have fun on while you learn. I'm about to buy a 400cc honda RR in the next month or so as my fun bike and my first bike is 650cc. The big litre bikes are bound to be real heavy, easily dropped (for a noobie), expensive and for the majority too much power to handle without experience.
Get some quotes for a 600cc as there is more choice in that market and you may get some more sensible quotes.
obviously is depends on your age and driving history as well.
TBH: I'm not sure why some people have the desire to pass their test and then go and buy the biggest engined bike they can find. A 500cc is more than enough to have fun on while you learn. I'm about to buy a 400cc honda RR in the next month or so as my fun bike and my first bike is 650cc. The big litre bikes are bound to be real heavy, easily dropped (for a noobie), expensive and for the majority too much power to handle without experience.
Get some quotes for a 600cc as there is more choice in that market and you may get some more sensible quotes.
obviously is depends on your age and driving history as well.
Re the 500cc comment - i ment most DAS learner bikes are 500cc jobbies, i wasn't emplying 500's were gay!
My YZ250 is plenty for the fields so won't be jumping onto a thousand straight away on the roads, was pretty suprised at how easy it would be for me to do that though. I thought the insurance companies would have refused anything over a 600!
PS a Hayabusa is £719!
My YZ250 is plenty for the fields so won't be jumping onto a thousand straight away on the roads, was pretty suprised at how easy it would be for me to do that though. I thought the insurance companies would have refused anything over a 600!
PS a Hayabusa is £719!
Edited by exgtt on Thursday 14th August 10:25
exgtt said:
Re the 500cc comment - i ment most DAS learner bikes are 500cc jobbies, i wasn't emplying 500's were gay!
My YZ250 is plenty for the fields so won't be jumping onto a thousand straight away on the roads, was pretty suprised at how easy it would be for me to do that though. I thought the insurance companies would have refused anything over a 600!
I think it depends a lot on your age, Anything newer than 2000 and 600cc was around £2k for me 19 yo a litre would probably get refused straight away.My YZ250 is plenty for the fields so won't be jumping onto a thousand straight away on the roads, was pretty suprised at how easy it would be for me to do that though. I thought the insurance companies would have refused anything over a 600!
There have been many debates on here with regard to what is or is not an ideal bike to move straight onto having passed your test. The key point to remember is that just about any bike over about 250cc will have way more ability than you have so you have to ask yourself if you have the self control required. (If you don’t, then don’t do your bike test and buy yourself a moped.)
Modern sports bikes have more ability than can be used by even ‘long in the tooth’ experienced riders unless you are the sort of person who regularly runs at the IoM TT or are a grid regular in BSB, WSB or MotoGP. This means that no one is ever really going to ‘use’ all of the likes of a modern thou so, as a newbie, you are not really going to be any different to anyone else. The only thing is you are likely to be using a smaller sub-set of the bikes abilities than a more experienced rider, but is still a sub-set.
The key to riding on the road is road craft, and that comes with experience, be that on a 250, a 400, a 600, a 1000 or a 1200. (Training can seriously improve the rate at which road craft is learnt.) Smaller bikes are likely to teach you more about how to ride a bike as they require a little more work than larger bikes but the likes of any sports 600 will be just as fast on the road as a 1000.
I have known many people who have passed their test and immediately bought a large bike (1000 – 1200cc). All of these people have had no more problems than those who came up the cc ladder but all of them knew their limitations and rode within those.
Modern sports bikes have more ability than can be used by even ‘long in the tooth’ experienced riders unless you are the sort of person who regularly runs at the IoM TT or are a grid regular in BSB, WSB or MotoGP. This means that no one is ever really going to ‘use’ all of the likes of a modern thou so, as a newbie, you are not really going to be any different to anyone else. The only thing is you are likely to be using a smaller sub-set of the bikes abilities than a more experienced rider, but is still a sub-set.
The key to riding on the road is road craft, and that comes with experience, be that on a 250, a 400, a 600, a 1000 or a 1200. (Training can seriously improve the rate at which road craft is learnt.) Smaller bikes are likely to teach you more about how to ride a bike as they require a little more work than larger bikes but the likes of any sports 600 will be just as fast on the road as a 1000.
I have known many people who have passed their test and immediately bought a large bike (1000 – 1200cc). All of these people have had no more problems than those who came up the cc ladder but all of them knew their limitations and rode within those.
exgtt said:
Re the 500cc comment - i ment most DAS learner bikes are 500cc jobbies, i wasn't emplying 500's were gay!
My YZ250 is plenty for the fields so won't be jumping onto a thousand straight away on the roads, was pretty suprised at how easy it would be for me to do that though. I thought the insurance companies would have refused anything over a 600!
PS a Hayabusa is £719!
That’s OK I knew you weren’t implying that they were gay. It was just a funny statement. My YZ250 is plenty for the fields so won't be jumping onto a thousand straight away on the roads, was pretty suprised at how easy it would be for me to do that though. I thought the insurance companies would have refused anything over a 600!
PS a Hayabusa is £719!
Edited by exgtt on Thursday 14th August 10:25
You're right on the ease of acquiring a insanely fast bike. Most of the reviews of new bikes are all litre+ It's actually becoming harder to get a smaller engined bike 400s for example. 600cc is probably the smallest you'll get on most forecourts these days. (though I'm sure I'll be corrected
)I was very surprised at the insurance for my bike. It 1/2 that what I pay for my car and my bike probably has more BHP than my car.
Apparently bike sales are up 22% (though I suspect a lot of this is scooters) I wonder if that will prompt he manufacturers to offer some more mid-range engined bikes for the beginners (which is what I am - only 2-3 months under my seat)
OK there are a lot of new 125s but that slightly different. I'm fortunate enough to be getting my Honda from my mate who lives opposite me. The bike is probably just a little bit younger than me
He just needs to service and MOT it. A little bit of a bonus is that he will keep it in his garage for me. Sweet To be honesty matey...
Your used to a 250 field bike, wait until you've ridden the 500 DAS bike.
It's got a stupid amount of power in comparison.
I'm not saying you were guna get a thou but you would more than likely hurt yourself!
To put it into comparison my new GSXR K8 600 has 125 bhp i believe & weighs around 175kgs - dry that works out at a stupid amount of HP per tonne - i have no idea what the sums are to be honest.
But it's like saying this, your first bike if you get a 600 is likely to be faster than 90% of cars on the road.
& for that in the hands of someone who's just passed their bike test and has no real road riding experience is dangerous!
My old thundercat was about 95bhp & weighed about 180kg.
I could beat a boxster off the line - easily i must add with myself on it who weighs 15 1/2 stone & a mate on the back who weighs about 12.
Until someone has been on a bike with some power like a 500 you won't really understand what it feels like!
With a thou you can do a speed in first gear that will lose you your license!
Your used to a 250 field bike, wait until you've ridden the 500 DAS bike.
It's got a stupid amount of power in comparison.
I'm not saying you were guna get a thou but you would more than likely hurt yourself!
To put it into comparison my new GSXR K8 600 has 125 bhp i believe & weighs around 175kgs - dry that works out at a stupid amount of HP per tonne - i have no idea what the sums are to be honest.
But it's like saying this, your first bike if you get a 600 is likely to be faster than 90% of cars on the road.
& for that in the hands of someone who's just passed their bike test and has no real road riding experience is dangerous!
My old thundercat was about 95bhp & weighed about 180kg.
I could beat a boxster off the line - easily i must add with myself on it who weighs 15 1/2 stone & a mate on the back who weighs about 12.
Until someone has been on a bike with some power like a 500 you won't really understand what it feels like!
With a thou you can do a speed in first gear that will lose you your license!
)lawrence567 said:
To be honesty matey...
Your used to a 250 field bike, wait until you've ridden the 500 DAS bike.
It's got a stupid amount of power in comparison.
He said he has a YZ 250 - that's a gp moto x bike. they make as much power a 500 das bike and only half the weight. If he's used to riding the YZ he would probably find anything less than a 600 sportbike quite slow.Your used to a 250 field bike, wait until you've ridden the 500 DAS bike.
It's got a stupid amount of power in comparison.
JS99 said:
lawrence567 said:
To be honesty matey...
Your used to a 250 field bike, wait until you've ridden the 500 DAS bike.
It's got a stupid amount of power in comparison.
He said he has a YZ 250 - that's a gp moto x bike. they make as much power a 500 das bike and only half the weight. If he's used to riding the YZ he would probably find anything less than a 600 sportbike quite slow.Your used to a 250 field bike, wait until you've ridden the 500 DAS bike.
It's got a stupid amount of power in comparison.
My ideal bike would be a Ducati S2R with Termis..
Think i need something with scabs on as a first bike though. Old Firestorm or something under £2k.
Edited by exgtt on Thursday 14th August 11:51
As a first bike any 600cc will do... despite the fact I have done over 15k miles in 14 months and have also done advanced rider training in that time I still feel my Thundercat is more than a match for my abilities.
When I feel the bike is a limitation of my skill THEN I will upgrade but I feel no need for a bigger bike yet and I have yet to sample a better 600cc road bike that does everything as well as a Thundercat.
A 600cc will give you enough grunt to not get bored but not so much that you cant handle it or develop your skills on it ... after all if its so quick that your struggling to handle it you'll never learn like you can on a smaller capacity bike.
When I feel the bike is a limitation of my skill THEN I will upgrade but I feel no need for a bigger bike yet and I have yet to sample a better 600cc road bike that does everything as well as a Thundercat.
A 600cc will give you enough grunt to not get bored but not so much that you cant handle it or develop your skills on it ... after all if its so quick that your struggling to handle it you'll never learn like you can on a smaller capacity bike.
Edited by Mr OCD on Thursday 14th August 11:52
JS99 said:
lawrence567 said:
To be honesty matey...
Your used to a 250 field bike, wait until you've ridden the 500 DAS bike.
It's got a stupid amount of power in comparison.
He said he has a YZ 250 - that's a gp moto x bike. they make as much power a 500 das bike and only half the weight. If he's used to riding the YZ he would probably find anything less than a 600 sportbike quite slow.Your used to a 250 field bike, wait until you've ridden the 500 DAS bike.
It's got a stupid amount of power in comparison.
I ride a 250 4-stroke which, out of the crate make approx 33hp and weigh just over 90kg. I have to say that I didn't find the CB500 I rode during my DAS particularly powerful or quick.
That's not to say that I found it underpowered or slow but certainly no more than I could safely handle on the road.
Could I have ridden it to it's 'limits'; probably not but then agian I'm not on the limiter in every gear on my bike either.
So on that basis, I don't think any bike is 'too much' as a first bike as long as the rider can engage brain before right hand.....which isn't always easy!
Consider yourself lucky!! Passed my test in 1988, rode various bikes, RGV, RG500, GSXR750, ZXR750, FZR400RR, 851, 748, KTM Duke, and finally a 996SPS until 5 years ago when the 996 turned into laminate floors - oh what a waste.....
At the time I had full NCB. Jump to last month, new fireblade, £1050 fully comp with silly theft excess of £800 as the insurance had lapsed after 2 years. I have all of 3 points via scamera, 20 years of experience and still being raped. Bike is garaged in alarmed garage, alarmed itself, datatagged, crash bungs.
Other thing without wanting to teach you to suck eggs but a Gixxer thou is a bit of a handfull as a first road bike irrespective of other experience, those are a real handful even after LOTS of years riding, 0-hospital in f
kall seconds.....rode a 600 on a track day on Tuesday and pleasantly surprised at how rapid and user friendly it was, kept up with lots bigger bikes and was able to give it the beans without killing myself or others - bonus!!
At the time I had full NCB. Jump to last month, new fireblade, £1050 fully comp with silly theft excess of £800 as the insurance had lapsed after 2 years. I have all of 3 points via scamera, 20 years of experience and still being raped. Bike is garaged in alarmed garage, alarmed itself, datatagged, crash bungs.
Other thing without wanting to teach you to suck eggs but a Gixxer thou is a bit of a handfull as a first road bike irrespective of other experience, those are a real handful even after LOTS of years riding, 0-hospital in f
kall seconds.....rode a 600 on a track day on Tuesday and pleasantly surprised at how rapid and user friendly it was, kept up with lots bigger bikes and was able to give it the beans without killing myself or others - bonus!!lawrence567 said:
Yeah ok they may develop the same if the MX not more, but road riding & riding a MX to a road bike is completely different...
I completely agree, which is what I was getting at with the 'not being able to use the full potential of the bike' and 'engaging brain before throttle'.As said above ^^^ there's probably only a handful of people in the world that can use any bike to it's full potential for it's respective discipline but that's not to say that any bike is too much for any rider as long as they ride within their limits of ability.
Going from MX1 bike to litre sports may not 'feel' like such a huge leap in terms of 'sensation' of acceleration etc the rider just has to remember that his or her 'actual' speed on tarmac is probably double what it would be off-road and the landings and surroundings tend to be a tad harder!
Its a whole new discipline to MX, I raced MX for years as a schoolboy then jumped on a roadbike and wasn't prepared for the change in acceleration, cornering skills different, hazard perception is different - the two can't be compared other than the two are on bikes. You learn great bike control on mud and this helps no end on a roadbike but IMHO thats where it ends. A 600 nowadays kicks the arse out of litre sports bikes of 10 years ago, lighter, better brakes etc. Its just the fact I am a strapping 6ft bloater that stops me having one - I sat on a GSXR600 at Ally Pally and looked like I was on a minimoto.....
Its silly little things that catch you out even now, warming the tyres before hooning it - cost me 2 fairings on my RGV before I learned that lesson, cornering at speed and the tightening apex curve, goodbye 6 week old ZXR750.
Its silly little things that catch you out even now, warming the tyres before hooning it - cost me 2 fairings on my RGV before I learned that lesson, cornering at speed and the tightening apex curve, goodbye 6 week old ZXR750.
scoobster999 said:
Its a whole new discipline to MX, I raced MX for years as a schoolboy then jumped on a roadbike and wasn't prepared for the change in acceleration, cornering skills different, hazard perception is different - the two can't be compared other than the two are on bikes. You learn great bike control on mud and this helps no end on a roadbike but IMHO thats where it ends. A 600 nowadays kicks the arse out of litre sports bikes of 10 years ago, lighter, better brakes etc. Its just the fact I am a strapping 6ft bloater that stops me having one - I sat on a GSXR600 at Ally Pally and looked like I was on a minimoto.....
Its silly little things that catch you out even now, warming the tyres before hooning it - cost me 2 fairings on my RGV before I learned that lesson, cornering at speed and the tightening apex curve, goodbye 6 week old ZXR750.
Again, I completely agree mate; my comments were more in response to lawrence's post about the power of a CB500 etc DAS bike in comparison to a MX1 motocross bike.Its silly little things that catch you out even now, warming the tyres before hooning it - cost me 2 fairings on my RGV before I learned that lesson, cornering at speed and the tightening apex curve, goodbye 6 week old ZXR750.
I think nothing, now, of giving my MX bike a handful at every opportunity on a track but riding on the road had my brain working double-shifts with overtime on top.
Riding the bike its self was a piece of piss, it was the 'preparing for the unknown' (as the instructor put it) that makes a huge difference.....particularly when the unknown is usually made of metal, weighs a tonne plus and can be travelling up to 90mph!
I've ridden MX bikes, Quads & Trikes since i was about 10...
IMO a MX is in no way / & MX riding compares no way to road riding, road riding is an art & its something you pick up as you go along, you have to look out for yourself & anticipate what others are doing around you.
The chances are if you come off on the road your in the st, whereas (i might be playing devils advocate here) If you come off greenlaning crossing etc you dont tend to end up with as bad as injuries - obviously that doesnt apply in every case.
Obvious MX racing is a different matter.
Plus as already mentioned you cant really compare a road bike to an MX bike, seating position, ride height, brakes, handling, responsiveness etc on a modern road going 600 if you give it too much you will get hurt!
IMO a MX is in no way / & MX riding compares no way to road riding, road riding is an art & its something you pick up as you go along, you have to look out for yourself & anticipate what others are doing around you.
The chances are if you come off on the road your in the s
t, whereas (i might be playing devils advocate here) If you come off greenlaning crossing etc you dont tend to end up with as bad as injuries - obviously that doesnt apply in every case.Obvious MX racing is a different matter.
Plus as already mentioned you cant really compare a road bike to an MX bike, seating position, ride height, brakes, handling, responsiveness etc on a modern road going 600 if you give it too much you will get hurt!
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