Early CV8 - false economy?
Discussion
Still waiting for my current car to sell, so not in a mad rush to buy, but been looking at various monaros, and the variance in price between an early cv8 and a ls2 VXR is huge. If I went with a CV8 I get the feeling I'm going to want to mod early on, so realistically, am I just better spending the extra on a LS2 in the first place? In terms of hardware, what is the difference between the cv8 models and the ls1 VXR?
I reckon I'd be happy with circa 400 brake, but reckon the standard 328 brake of an early cv8 could feel a bit sluggish? What would be involved in getting a cv8 to 400 ish?
I reckon I'd be happy with circa 400 brake, but reckon the standard 328 brake of an early cv8 could feel a bit sluggish? What would be involved in getting a cv8 to 400 ish?
Early cv8s are a great base car to start modding. Depends whether you want a car to just drive or you want a car you can improve as a project. Jameshsv has now got about 500 fwhp from his cv8 with heads and cam (inter alia). So it can be done quite easily. It does cost a bit though.
A good unmolested cv8 is cheap enough that it should leave some money in the pot for mods. Or you could just buy an 05vxr and enjoy it.
I'd suggest going for a low mile car that hasn't got too many mods and then mod it to suit your needs.
A good unmolested cv8 is cheap enough that it should leave some money in the pot for mods. Or you could just buy an 05vxr and enjoy it.
I'd suggest going for a low mile car that hasn't got too many mods and then mod it to suit your needs.
Comes down to money. The cars are cheap now but the cost to modify them is the same as it was when they were new. Depending on taste, the VXR was as superior car when new but after 8 years, I would take a well cared for CV8 over a tired VXR. VXR sellers also have a tendency to over value their cars because of this. Even 400hp won't feel as fast as it is, however it would show most hot hatches a clean pair of heels. 600fwhp is where it gets really interesting and you don't have to sacrifice reliability. In summary, buy a car you like the look of and pay based on condition. Finally, don't expect to run it on a shoestring, apart from servicing, you can expect 18mpg as a daily driver. Good luck.
This table shows the key differences between the Monaros and other key Vauxhalls, past and present.
LS2 VXRs have the most torque and power and shortest gearing so have a clear advantage over the original CV8, so perhaps explains the price premium.
The ever larger wheels and brakes is much a fashion thing as a necessity, certainly in normal driving the hydraulic gain is as much key to brake feel as the size. Yes for ultimate fade resistance bigger is better so the evolution 04 CV8, 05 CV8, 05 VXR and APs gets better but the price escalates much faster than the stopping performance!
LS2 VXRs have the most torque and power and shortest gearing so have a clear advantage over the original CV8, so perhaps explains the price premium.
The ever larger wheels and brakes is much a fashion thing as a necessity, certainly in normal driving the hydraulic gain is as much key to brake feel as the size. Yes for ultimate fade resistance bigger is better so the evolution 04 CV8, 05 CV8, 05 VXR and APs gets better but the price escalates much faster than the stopping performance!
V88Dicky said:
hammo19 said:
Best thing to do is drive them before buying. 328 bhp sluggish? Interesting concept.
I was thinking that myself.
With the most 'sluggish' Monaro able to crack 0-60 in 6 seconds and go on to 160+, the OP must be used to some pretty quick metal!
It can but 30 - 50 in 2nd takes 2.8 seconds, a BMW320d 2.5 seconds, so not acceptable for a muscle car to be left behind off a roundabout! LS2 VXR a much respectable 2.2 sec. These are figures which matter in real driving, 0 - 60 and top speed are hypothetical.
The CV8s weakness is it’s tall gearing, addressable by diff or gearbox change, but stock can be a good starting point for forced induction, where the gearing can be pulled more readily.
ringram said:
In BHP terms IIRC the LS2 is 400, the LS1 at its peak was 385.
So for 15bhp, Id take the better condition car. 15bhp is an exhaust away.
Dont forget one is an HSV though, with better suspension, gearing etc. All VXR's are HSV's
Looking at the table above 04cv8 has 70hp less than a ls2 vxr. thats alot.So for 15bhp, Id take the better condition car. 15bhp is an exhaust away.
Dont forget one is an HSV though, with better suspension, gearing etc. All VXR's are HSV's
007 VXR said:
ringram said:
In BHP terms IIRC the LS2 is 400, the LS1 at its peak was 385.
So for 15bhp, Id take the better condition car. 15bhp is an exhaust away.
Dont forget one is an HSV though, with better suspension, gearing etc. All VXR's are HSV's
Looking at the table above 04cv8 has 70hp less than a ls2 vxr. thats alot.So for 15bhp, Id take the better condition car. 15bhp is an exhaust away.
Dont forget one is an HSV though, with better suspension, gearing etc. All VXR's are HSV's
rix said:
Still waiting for my current car to sell, so not in a mad rush to buy, but been looking at various monaros, and the variance in price between an early cv8 and a ls2 VXR is huge. If I went with a CV8 I get the feeling I'm going to want to mod early on, so realistically, am I just better spending the extra on a LS2 in the first place? In terms of hardware, what is the difference between the cv8 models and the ls1 VXR?
I reckon I'd be happy with circa 400 brake, but reckon the standard 328 brake of an early cv8 could feel a bit sluggish? What would be involved in getting a cv8 to 400 ish?
IMHO, drive boths car then ask your self this question.I reckon I'd be happy with circa 400 brake, but reckon the standard 328 brake of an early cv8 could feel a bit sluggish? What would be involved in getting a cv8 to 400 ish?
Thanks for the input
So there is no hardware difference between the LS1 in the early CV8s to the VXR? Just the map?
I mean no slur on the CV8. I'm used to the infamously 'legendary' BMW '35d in a 535d (no remap ) so although only 280ish brake, I can imagine it will feel faster than a stock cv8 as the power delivery will be completely different. I used to run a Jeep SRT8, which even with 425bhp, felt like it needed to be worked to get the best performance out of it, I'm thinking that the LS1/2 will be pretty similar being a big NA v8 like the 6.1 'hemi' in the Jeep.
The trouble with test driving is there's not that many about, and those at dealers tend to be little traders without showrooms etc. can't see them being that impressed with speculative test drives lol
So there is no hardware difference between the LS1 in the early CV8s to the VXR? Just the map?
I mean no slur on the CV8. I'm used to the infamously 'legendary' BMW '35d in a 535d (no remap
) so although only 280ish brake, I can imagine it will feel faster than a stock cv8 as the power delivery will be completely different. I used to run a Jeep SRT8, which even with 425bhp, felt like it needed to be worked to get the best performance out of it, I'm thinking that the LS1/2 will be pretty similar being a big NA v8 like the 6.1 'hemi' in the Jeep. The trouble with test driving is there's not that many about, and those at dealers tend to be little traders without showrooms etc. can't see them being that impressed with speculative test drives lol
007 VXR said:
MyM8V8 said:
ringram said:
.. flash the 04 vxr tune into the cv8 job done.
The only difference is the tune, an £80 change.
The only difference is the tune, an £80 change.
Yeah, must do that to mine. Where can I get the tune now?
70bhp for £80
where do i sign 
There is more to it than that surely, doesn't the 5.7 VXR have tubular exhaust manifolds, exactly the same cam? Also to make the best of it has a 3.7 vs 3.46 diff.
rix said:
Thanks for the input
So there is no hardware difference between the LS1 in the early CV8s to the VXR? Just the map?
I mean no slur on the CV8. I'm used to the infamously 'legendary' BMW '35d in a 535d (no remap ) so although only 280ish brake, I can imagine it will feel faster than a stock cv8 as the power delivery will be completely different. I used to run a Jeep SRT8, which even with 425bhp, felt like it needed to be worked to get the best performance out of it, I'm thinking that the LS1/2 will be pretty similar being a big NA v8 like the 6.1 'hemi' in the Jeep.
The trouble with test driving is there's not that many about, and those at dealers tend to be little traders without showrooms etc. can't see them being that impressed with speculative test drives lol
a cv8 will definitely feel slow to a 35dSo there is no hardware difference between the LS1 in the early CV8s to the VXR? Just the map?
I mean no slur on the CV8. I'm used to the infamously 'legendary' BMW '35d in a 535d (no remap
) so although only 280ish brake, I can imagine it will feel faster than a stock cv8 as the power delivery will be completely different. I used to run a Jeep SRT8, which even with 425bhp, felt like it needed to be worked to get the best performance out of it, I'm thinking that the LS1/2 will be pretty similar being a big NA v8 like the 6.1 'hemi' in the Jeep. The trouble with test driving is there's not that many about, and those at dealers tend to be little traders without showrooms etc. can't see them being that impressed with speculative test drives lol
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