Lion Air - Another Crash
Discussion
Living in this part of the world thought I'd do some research into this airline in the chance we might fly with them one day to Bali ! Jeez! They have written off about 5 planes mostly on landing, thankfully few fatalities, and are banned from European airspace. Seems the growth in travel there combined with poor infrastructure and training is not a good recipe. Think I'll avoid.
Just out of interest ( and I dont mean to hijack the thread) what is it specifically about Air France that results in them getting such a bad press? I've heard alot of negativity aimed at them and I was wondering if they really are worse than their competitors. Crashes are obviously bad but were they due to the way Air France operate or just freak occurrences that could happen to anyone?
IanMorewood said:
Air France have killed 341 people in the same time frame (Concorde and the Airbus that went down off Brazil). Im sure there are worse airlines.
Surely, it needs to be killed/not killed rather than an absolute number? Afterall, if i set up an airline, i will kill zero people over the next ten years (as i haven't got any planes) and so become the "safest" airline in history!!So, whats the ratio for both airlines over the same period?
24lemons said:
Just out of interest ( and I dont mean to hijack the thread) what is it specifically about Air France that results in them getting such a bad press? I've heard alot of negativity aimed at them and I was wondering if they really are worse than their competitors. Crashes are obviously bad but were they due to the way Air France operate or just freak occurrences that could happen to anyone?
They do seem to crop a lot. Thr Concorde crash was covered up a little, then the A340 in Toronto, then the A330 over the mid Atlantic. And also the f
k up at the airshow. All have an element of pilot error.Make your own judgement.
ETA.
And in the same timeframe BA have lost only one plane, and that was a design fault.
Edited by fatboy b on Sunday 14th April 18:46
fatboy b said:
And in the same timeframe BA have lost only one plane, and that was a design fault.
I assume your talking about the 777 that crashed short of the runway @ LHR? I cannot think of any others.Edited by fatboy b on Sunday 14th April 18:46
Did not realise it had been attributed to a design fault. Surely with number of 777's in service it would have happened more than once?
Max_Torque said:
Surely, it needs to be killed/not killed rather than an absolute number? Afterall, if i set up an airline, i will kill zero people over the next ten years (as i haven't got any planes) and so become the "safest" airline in history!!
So, whats the ratio for both airlines over the same period?
Air France have written off 11 aircraft, current fleet numbers 249.So, whats the ratio for both airlines over the same period?
http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/searc...
Lion Air have written off 5 aircraft, current fleet numbers 92:-
http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/searc...
You do the math!
And length of history of airline. Air France has been in existence since the 1920s.
BA officially came into existence on 1 April 1974.
So Air France has a head start of 50 years.
For a fair comparison, an accident record for BA should also include all the airlines that were merged to form BA -
BEA
BOAC
Cambrian
Northeast
BEA Scottish
BEA Channel Islands
BEA Helicopters
Imperial Airways
Railway Air Services
Olley Air Services
British Airways (the pre-1939 airline - not the current one).
There are more but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
BA officially came into existence on 1 April 1974.
So Air France has a head start of 50 years.
For a fair comparison, an accident record for BA should also include all the airlines that were merged to form BA -
BEA
BOAC
Cambrian
Northeast
BEA Scottish
BEA Channel Islands
BEA Helicopters
Imperial Airways
Railway Air Services
Olley Air Services
British Airways (the pre-1939 airline - not the current one).
There are more but that's all I can think of off the top of my head.
ClaphamGT3 said:
MajorProblem said:
It was only RR engined 777s, fault with the fuel heaters starving the engines of fuel by allowing ice to form in the fuel lines.
Did they write off the airframe of the BA 777?
Cannibalised for parts apparently.
I heard the tail was removed and scrapped because the aircraft was outside a hangar next to 27l which was the runway it crashed on., and it was fairly obvious it was the aircraft that had crashed.
Going back to Lion Air, all I can say is nothing surprises me about them. I live and work in Indonesia in the same industry and know a few of their pilots; the stories they tell are pretty shocking. I will NEVER fly with them (along with a number of other carriers out here).
However, as bad as they are, I simply cannot believe they plonked a perfectly decent airframe in the sea short of the runway on a clear day without some other factors involved...
However, as bad as they are, I simply cannot believe they plonked a perfectly decent airframe in the sea short of the runway on a clear day without some other factors involved...
Moose. said:
Going back to Lion Air, all I can say is nothing surprises me about them. I live and work in Indonesia in the same industry and know a few of their pilots; the stories they tell are pretty shocking. I will NEVER fly with them (along with a number of other carriers out here).
However, as bad as they are, I simply cannot believe they plonked a perfectly decent airframe in the sea short of the runway on a clear day without some other factors involved...
Just to clarify it wasn't short but didn't stop!However, as bad as they are, I simply cannot believe they plonked a perfectly decent airframe in the sea short of the runway on a clear day without some other factors involved...
Shame, was a brand new aircraft!
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