Giant Bikes = British Leyland Quality?

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Complete with pretend brakes?

Would you ride a bike without brakes? Would you put your 3 year old son on a bike with no brakes?

I bought my 3 year old son his first bike yesterday - took the advice of the LBS and got him a Giant Animator 12". I was told that there is little point in spending much on a bike that he will quickly outgrow and that a "frogbike" at £80 more was not worth the extra expense, as it would only be about 1Kg lighter.

My son is small for 3 years old and only weighs about 12Kg, but he has become very good on his balance bike so it was time for a bike with pedals.

I got the bike home removed the stabilizers and helped him onto it. He was a bit wobbly but within 5 minutes he could ride the bike short distances unaided, that is when problems begun.

First I discovered that he cannot reach the brake levers, I thought that would be easy to adjust but after inspecting that calipers I realised that they appear to be made from components that fell out of a Christmas cracker...

Today I took the bike back to the LBS and explained the problem, I told them I thought the quality of the bike is poor. They guy claimed he could sort them out and went away with the bike. He adjusted the brakes and explained everything just needs to bed in...

This afternoon I took my son to the park on his bike...
He is now getting much more competent.
His speed is increasing.
He can now reach the brake levers.
Unfortunately pulling the levers makes absolutely no difference to speed he is travelling!
To stop the bike using the brakes requires an adult hand on the brake lever - something a 3 year old does not posses!

My 5 year old daughter tried the bike and she cannot operate the brakes either.

I have just spent 30 minutes trying to get the balance right - to no avail. The brakes have 2 settings - fully on and fully off - to change between these 2 settings requires turning a nut 1/4 of a turn with a spanner!

What should I do? The LBS will just fob me off; no amount of adjustment will make up for the fact that the break calipers are useless.

Since he has now ridden it and scratched it due to falling off because the brakes do not work there is no chance of getting my money back. So I am guessing my only option is to upgrade the brakes. How much would a decent quality front brake cost for a 12" child's bike?

This is my first experience of Giant bikes - if it is anything to go by how are they in business? Giant Bikes and the LBS should be ashamed of selling such a poor quality bike!

[Jayfish]

I can't advise you on the brakes you need, but if he's unable to operate the brakes, falling off and scratching it will not prevent you from claiming it is unfit for purpose.
If I sold you a car and the brakes didn't work, after hitting a wall and denting the bumper as a result I'd still be liable...

[Simond S]

would it be worth borrowing some softer pads from your lbs and seeing if that helps?

I don't think it is fair to say Giant or BL quality. Obviously you are having issues with this one aspect of the bike but they are well respected for quality bikes.

If it was a BL bike you would have got it home to find it had no brakes. Or the cables were missing.

[Shambler]

In my experience Giant are the equivalent of Lexus regards build quality.

[Birdthom]

I've had a Giant Animator for a few years, my second boy is on it now. It's served really well and quality has been good (if rather heavy). No issues here, and the brakes work fine.

[Rich_W]

I'm assuming they are basic sidepulls. Any chance of some pics?

TRY:
Clean the rims up with something with a degreasing agent in it.
Sand the brake pads surface a little bit with some fairly coarse sandpaper. Give it a bit of a key and will take off any residue on there.

If that fails. Smear Coca-Cola on the rims. Once it evaportes it will be really sticky from the sugar.

[Simond S]

Soak the blocks in gt85 / wd40 to soften them.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Shambler said:

In my experience Giant are the equivalent of Lexus regards build quality.

The reason why I bought it was I assumed that a Giant bike would be of high quality, but compared to my daughter's Ridgeback (same RRP) it has the build quality of an Austin All-Aggro...

Rich_W said:

I'm assuming they are basic sidepulls. Any chance of some pics?

Yes they are sidepulls but they require way too much pressure on the brake lever to be effective ( an adult hand pulling hard to engage them properly, my 3 year old doesn't stand a chance )...

Thanks for your suggestions, I will give them a try.

Here are some Pics:

Lever (as adjusted by LBS so my son can reach it)



The Mechanism:



The Mechanism 2




This mechanism on my daughter's bike on the otherhand requires little to no effort:

[CDP]

Simond S said:

If it was a BL bike you would have got it home to find it had no brakes. Or the cables were missing.

Or you get the 1 in 100 car that was built when the workforce was content, well motivated and all the bits were in on time

I've had more luck with BL than I have with Toyota.

[Rich_W]

jesusbuiltmycar said:

The Mechanism 2




This mechanism on my daughter's bike on the otherhand requires little to no effort:

Those are exactly what I expected the brakes to look like Cheap nasties! You used to be able to get conversion plates so side pulls became cantilevers/centre pulls. But it would be pointless on a kids bike. If the tips above don't work, I suspect you'll be better off trying to get a partial refund ( or sell it on ebay) and geting something fitted with decent brakes in the long term. Looking at Giants website none of their small person bike have good brakes! Seems you need to go up a size range to get good ones.

CDP said:

I've had more luck with BL than I have with Toyota.

Same workers though. Just went from stting on BL to stting on the Japs. I digress

[hadenough!]

The U brake on your sons bike is never going to be as good as the V brakes on your daughters.

[spitfire4v8]

^^ indeed. looking at the pics it seems the mechanical advantage of the cable on the daughter's bike is far greater than that on your son's bike.

[HereBeMonsters]

hadenough! said:

The U brake on your sons bike is never going to be as good as the V brakes on your daughters.

This.

You need a lot of power through the lever to operate an old-fashioned sidepull brake.

But hey, I had them on my bikes from age 2 - 15, and I managed to survive with only minor lacerations and loss of teeth!

[Simond S]

it may be worth starting by rebuilding the brake calipers. If you can put a lighter spring in that would make everything much easier for your son.

Also, if they are single pivot (I cant tell) assemble loosely to start. As you tighten the centre bolt it can out additional pressure on the caliper and cause it to bind.

Having said all that, I am not sure how long a kids hands are meant to be to reach that brake lever in its original position. I would be speaking to Giant customer service. 0844 245 90 30.

[AndyDRZ]

I'd start by aiming that brake block better than it currently is.

I know it's hard because the wheels is so small but hardly any of that looks like it will be touching the rim with the brakes applied.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Simond S said:

Having said all that, I am not sure how long a kids hands are meant to be to reach that brake lever in its original position. I would be speaking to Giant customer service. 0844 245 90 30.

Thanks for the number just spoke to them and the guy was really apologetic, he wants me to take it back to the store so they can sort it, but I am not holding my breath.

In the meantime I have had a search on the internet, the caliper is a "stamped steel brake" and the general advice is to never buy a cheapie "toys r us" bike with that type of brake! I would expect crap components on a "Ben 10" or Tesco £50 bike but on a kids bike by one of the so-called leading manufacturers I would expected something better!

I'll be taking it back to the bike shop on Thursday....

[Vladimir]

Maybe sand that paint off?!

Side pull calipers aren't great (still get them on road bikes though!) at the best of times.

Not sure what our kids Islabikes have (a Rothan and a CNOC 14) but even our two year old has no issues pulling the brakes. Little levers, easy to pull.

Vital to sort it as they are so important for confidence.

[IroningMan]

You should be able to get the brakes to self-servo to an extent by making the blocks toe-in in the direction of rotation. It looks like what little mechanical advantage the system incorporated has been lost in adjusting the lever.

[jesusbuiltmycar]

Returned the bike to the LBS and they gave me a refund which is great all round! This has restored my faith in using an LBS.

[anonymous-user]

thats a good result but dont let it put you off Giant in the future. After all, early Ferrari 430s suffered from random engine fires but it wouldnt put me off the marque!...