CGT - running costs

[Schnellmann]

Sorry if this has been answered in another thread...but what should one budget for as annual running costs on the CGT?

Also: is insurance a problem? I read somewhere that insurance for supercars has gone up recently (I think Harry Metcalfe was talking about £20k a year for his Zonda). [As a comparison, when I thought about getting an F40 here in Switzerland my insurance broker quoted me around £4k, which was painful but bearable].

[Shadow62]

My ownership of a couple of them was too short to comment. No problems.

It would be worth digging out a thread from 993RSR as he has done approx 40k miles and has a full report on all the costs. Its either on here, PCGB or Rennlist.

[Rockster]

Schnellmann said:

Sorry if this has been answered in another thread...but what should one budget for as annual running costs on the CGT?

Also: is insurance a problem? I read somewhere that insurance for supercars has gone up recently (I think Harry Metcalfe was talking about £20k a year for his Zonda). [As a comparison, when I thought about getting an F40 here in Switzerland my insurance broker quoted me around £4k, which was painful but bearable].

No direct experience -- dammit! -- but I'm thinking if you have to ask...

Really the running cost could range from near $0 (save for fuel) to $$$$ depending upon how much you drive the car and what services come due while you own the car or what repairs are needed.

These could range from say a punctured tire -- which could force you to replace two tires -- to oil/filter service to a failing clutch or even worse.

For insurance while I have never priced insurance for a CGT before I bought my Turbo I supplied my insurance agent the car's VIN (I had not yet bought the car but thought I probably would) and got a quote which proved to be not a problem.

[vince980]

My advise would be not to buy this car on a budget, since it'll only detract from the enjoyment. Whatever the car needs you do really need to get done. Having said that parts and labour are comparable to other Porsches. If you're buying one get a good one not a cheap one, make sure the clutch is ok by getting it measured and check the history for the 4 yr and maybe 8y service having been done.

To give you some idea this year I've had the following done:

New tyres due to old ones past sell by date. ~1500 gbp
Oil service and new battery ~ 800
New radiator at front due to leak ~1700

Abit unlucky on the radiator but otherwise pretty reasonable.

I can recommend an insurance broker if you PM me.

Basically, these cars are mind blowingly good.

[Schnellmann]

I tracked down a post by 993RSR (who it appears has not posted anything for a long time so perhaps no longer on PH). He has spent over £60k on his but that included a respray and over 40 track days. Still a lot.

Regarding having to ask....being able to afford and being prepared to spend are different. I could justify putting £300k into a car (God knows it isn't earning much in the bank), if the car holds it value and the running expenses are £10k to £20k a year all in. Above that is problematic for me as there are plenty of great cars than can be owned and run for much less.

I am a massive Porsche fan and have had 911s on and off for the past 18 years. The CGT is the ultimate, modern Porsche for me and the last analogue supercar (following in the footsteps of the F50). Unfortunately I don't have any direct experience of one and the only one I've seen moving was in Greenwich Village of all places, sounded amazing, if
somewhat incongruous.

What puts me off is the feeling that they are very slow to sell (there always seem to be quite a few for sale and certainly more than other cars of similar status such as the F40 and F50.

[Ernesto]

In 3 years I have spent around £1200/year on servicing and the same on insurance.

Not bad considering.

[Rockster]

Schnellmann said:

I tracked down a post by 993RSR (who it appears has not posted anything for a long time so perhaps no longer on PH). He has spent over £60k on his but that included a respray and over 40 track days. Still a lot.

Regarding having to ask....being able to afford and being prepared to spend are different. I could justify putting £300k into a car (God knows it isn't earning much in the bank), if the car holds it value and the running expenses are £10k to £20k a year all in. Above that is problematic for me as there are plenty of great cars than can be owned and run for much less.

I am a massive Porsche fan and have had 911s on and off for the past 18 years. The CGT is the ultimate, modern Porsche for me and the last analogue supercar (following in the footsteps of the F50). Unfortunately I don't have any direct experience of one and the only one I've seen moving was in Greenwich Village of all places, sounded amazing, if
somewhat incongruous.

What puts me off is the feeling that they are very slow to sell (there always seem to be quite a few for sale and certainly more than other cars of similar status such as the F40 and F50.

Well, why the money isn't earning much in the bank you do not have to worry about some bozo blowing a stop light and slamming into the side of your bank account and it suffering some big instant depreciation.

I mean that's always the risk. One buys a car like that thinking he can recoup a large fraction of what he paid when he goes to resell and then boom!

(Happened to me twice: 4 week old new Cayman S, that I had bought with the idea of driving a year or two and then trading it in on something more powerful. The Cayman was rendered scrap by a driver smashing into its side. Thankfully the car was declared a total loss and while it was a bit of work I was justly compensated for the loss. But I was looking at a new Cayman with nearly zero trade in/resale value had the car not been totaled. Next time was just a few weeks after buying a pristine low miles Turbo I hit a mule deer with car. Thankfully while the damage was "extensive" it was confined to just replaceable body panels and other hardware. Still the car took a hit figuratively in its resale value. But I like the car so much that I doubt I'll sell it for a long time.)

I guess it boils down to assuming the worst case, almost the worst case. Would you be willing to have to fund, could you fund, out of pocket major engine work should the engine go boom? Even if you are careful the engine could suffer a catastrophic problem that could have you facing a huge repair bill just to get the car back on the road.

While the odds are low of this happening, they are not zero.

[isaldiri]

Schnellmann said:

The CGT is the ultimate, modern Porsche for me and the last analogue supercar.

I have recently started to keep an eye out for one for much the same reason as you listed above and have had a chat with Porsche Reading about some of the running costs. As i understand it, the 4 year valve clearance check and potentially the clutch (although Reading seemed quite confident of clutch life now as long as it is used properly) are the main expenses as it's an engine out job. Otherwise, rads and shocks sometimes throw up issues.

Have also seen the list that 993rsr put up and I guess the respray, droplinks and front brake discs make up quite a siginificant chunk of the costs, excluding those items it does not look crazy I think although I did notice some mention of a faulty head gasket which was a bit worrying... No direct experience though so perhaps take what I say with a pinch of salt, certainly compared to what actual owners are saying..

[stefan1]

Schnellmann said:

Sorry if this has been answered in another thread...but what should one budget for as annual running costs on the CGT?

Also: is insurance a problem? I read somewhere that insurance for supercars has gone up recently (I think Harry Metcalfe was talking about £20k a year for his Zonda). [As a comparison, when I thought about getting an F40 here in Switzerland my insurance broker quoted me around £4k, which was painful but bearable].

I've had my CGT since new in 2006. Here is a run down of the invoices:

6 Dec 2007 - First service - £1,180
3 Dec 2008 - Second service - £2,450 (included £500 to replace damaged Paintshield on front PU)
3 Dec 2009 - Third service - £865
8 July 2010 - Battery replacement - £400
29 Nov 2010 - Fourth service - engine out - £9,065. This included £1,740 for new Paintshield all round
1 Dec 2011 - Fifth service - £1,100
28 Jun 2012 - Replace damaged wing mirror and repair minor damage to undertray (the car does ground occasionally), plus 4 new tyres - £6,400
28 Nov 2012 - 6th year service - £1,756, including £100 to renew track rod end boots, and replacing all belts

So a grand total of £23,216 over 6 years and 17,000 (mostly road) miles - just under £4k per annum.

The car has had radiators, rear shock absorbers and a camshaft replaced under goodwill.

The clutch is reading 30mm (new 31mm, replace at 28mm), suggesting a life of circa 50,000 miles.

Insurance (on an agreed value policy) has been fairly steady at 1% of value, so circa £3k per annum.

Road tax is a pleasing £190!

Whilst there is always the risk of a large bill, the running costs are, I think, exceptionally reasonable. And Porsche Reading's CGT service team are simply the best in the business.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[Schnellmann]

Thanks.

Overall costs don't seem too bad, except
for the engine out servicing (every 4 years?)

I take the point about a crash (which might not be your fault) hitting the resale value. Which is why having the cash invested in a car is not as safe. It is a worry because it would spoil the ownership experience for me if something like that happened and I took a big hit (makes an argument for perhaps buying one that has had an accident already, as long as it was repaired properly).

[paul0843]

Schnellmann said:

Thanks.

Overall costs don't seem too bad, except
for the engine out servicing (every 4 years?)

I take the point about a crash (which might not be your fault) hitting the resale value. Which is why having the cash invested in a car is not as safe. It is a worry because it would spoil the ownership experience for me if something like that happened and I took a big hit (makes an argument for perhaps buying one that has had an accident already, as long as it was repaired properly).

A lot of people who had Cyprus bank accounts would disagree

[davek_964]

stefan1 said:

I've had my CGT since new in 2006. Here is a run down of the invoices:

6 Dec 2007 - First service - £1,180
3 Dec 2008 - Second service - £2,450 (included £500 to replace damaged Paintshield on front PU)
3 Dec 2009 - Third service - £865
8 July 2010 - Battery replacement - £400
29 Nov 2010 - Fourth service - engine out - £9,065. This included £1,740 for new Paintshield all round
1 Dec 2011 - Fifth service - £1,100
28 Jun 2012 - Replace damaged wing mirror and repair minor damage to undertray (the car does ground occasionally), plus 4 new tyres - £6,400
28 Nov 2012 - 6th year service - £1,756, including £100 to renew track rod end boots, and replacing all belts

So a grand total of £23,216 over 6 years and 17,000 (mostly road) miles - just under £4k per annum.

They're interesting figures. Even for those of us who couldn't come up with the capital, most of those annual running costs are probably inline with what we'd expect to pay for our 997s, 996 turbos etc. And even the average of £4k per annum doesn't sound bad - I was paying more than that when I was running a 348 at the same time as my 996 turbo. But - a single bill of £9k - and two years later another single bill of £6.5k - would definitely make my eyes water!

[isaldiri]

stefan1 said:

I've had my CGT since new in 2006. Here is a run down of the invoices:

That's very useful to know thanks..

[Schnellmann]

paul0843 said:

A lot of people who had Cyprus bank accounts would disagree

Agreed, although since the financial crisis I would not have put my money in a Cyprus bank (or in any PIGS bank either). Although no bank is 100% safe there are ones that are closer to 100% than others.

[Maxige]

stefan1 said:

I've had my CGT since new in 2006. Here is a run down of the invoices:

The clutch is reading 30mm (new 31mm, replace at 28mm), suggesting a life of circa 50,000 miles.

Finally somebody who can use a CGT without burning the clutch...impressive wear for a 7 years/17k miles car!

[neil-f]

stefan1 said:

I've had my CGT since new in 2006. Here is a run down of the invoices:

6 Dec 2007 - First service - £1,180
3 Dec 2008 - Second service - £2,450 (included £500 to replace damaged Paintshield on front PU)
3 Dec 2009 - Third service - £865
8 July 2010 - Battery replacement - £400
29 Nov 2010 - Fourth service - engine out - £9,065. This included £1,740 for new Paintshield all round
1 Dec 2011 - Fifth service - £1,100
28 Jun 2012 - Replace damaged wing mirror and repair minor damage to undertray (the car does ground occasionally), plus 4 new tyres - £6,400
28 Nov 2012 - 6th year service - £1,756, including £100 to renew track rod end boots, and replacing all belts

So a grand total of £23,216 over 6 years and 17,000 (mostly road) miles - just under £4k per annum.

The car has had radiators, rear shock absorbers and a camshaft replaced under goodwill.

The clutch is reading 30mm (new 31mm, replace at 28mm), suggesting a life of circa 50,000 miles.

Insurance (on an agreed value policy) has been fairly steady at 1% of value, so circa £3k per annum.

Road tax is a pleasing £190!

Whilst there is always the risk of a large bill, the running costs are, I think, exceptionally reasonable. And Porsche Reading's CGT service team are simply the best in the business.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Thanks for posting this info, most usefull and food for thought!

[993rsr]

Schnellmann said:

I tracked down a post by 993RSR (who it appears has not posted anything for a long time so perhaps no longer on PH). He has spent over £60k on his but that included a respray and over 40 track days. Still a lot.

Regarding having to ask....being able to afford and being prepared to spend are different. I could justify putting £300k into a car (God knows it isn't earning much in the bank), if the car holds it value and the running expenses are £10k to £20k a year all in. Above that is problematic for me as there are plenty of great cars than can be owned and run for much less.

I am a massive Porsche fan and have had 911s on and off for the past 18 years. The CGT is the ultimate, modern Porsche for me and the last analogue supercar (following in the footsteps of the F50). Unfortunately I don't have any direct experience of one and the only one I've seen moving was in Greenwich Village of all places, sounded amazing, if
somewhat incongruous.

What puts me off is the feeling that they are very slow to sell (there always seem to be quite a few for sale and certainly more than other cars of similar status such as the F40 and F50.

Still around sometimes.

I think you could comfortably run the car within the figures you mention. Take out the track use, repaint, and my OCD in extremis, and I'd guess my running costs would have been half what they have been.

I posted a thread on Teamspeed when I hit 20k miles, and updated it at 30k recently:

http://teamspeed.com/forums/gt/39123-cgt-mileage-m...

As Stefan1 mentioned, the guys at Reading are simply amazing, I've never experienced that level of service anywhere in the motor industry. John Manning and Andy Keywood deserve special mention, they can never do enough to help.

An example, when I forgot to ask them to MOT my car when it was in for service last year, they sent a truck to collect the car, took it to Reading, MOT'd it, delivered it home and only charged me for the MOT!

It's a simply astounding car to have the pleasure to own, I've not used it much in the last year due to work/travel commitments, but I used it every day for a week to go to work covering around 500 miles recently, and I got the same dry throat and sweaty palms with excitement as I did the first time I drove it. It's worth if for the noise alone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UptGlHigYks

It's epic on every level, and I simply can't imagine a car of it's purity and focus will come our way again. I've never driven anything that when you put the effort into mastering it, can reward with such an intoxicating hit.

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 17th May 10:24

[Maxige]

993rsr said:

Still around sometimes.

I think you could comfortably run the car within the figures you mention. Take out the track use, repaint, and my OCD in extremis, and I'd guess my running costs would have been half what they have been.

I posted a thread on Teamspeed when I hit 20k miles, and updated it at 30k recently:

http://teamspeed.com/forums/gt/39123-cgt-mileage-m...

As Stefan1 mentioned, the guys at Reading are simply amazing, I've never experienced that level of service anywhere in the motor industry. John Manning and Andy Keywood deserve special mention, they can never do enough to help.

An example, when I forgot to ask them to MOT my car when it was in for service last year, they sent a truck to collect the car, took it to Reading, MOT'd it, delivered it home and only charged me for the MOT!

It's a simply astounding car to have the pleasure to own, I've not used it much in the last year due to work/travel commitments, but I used it every day for a week to go to work covering around 500 miles recently, and I got the same dry throat and sweaty palms with excitement as I did the first time I drove it. It's worth if for the noise alone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UptGlHigYks

It's epic on every level, and I simply can't imagine a car of it's purity and focus will come our way again. I've never driven anything that when you put the effort into mastering it, can reward with such an intoxicating hit.

Edited by 993rsr on Friday 17th May 10:24

Totally agree...still remember that lap we did at the Nurburgring when I was following you, what a day!

I tend to think the CGT is a modern F40...it's just so pure and uncompromised that it will be really though for anybody to make another car like this going fwd!

And black is the colour...

[RiccardoG]

Thanks for sharing the ownership stories guys. Its amazing how reasonable the figures are, as mentioned above, I'd suspect that running a Bentley or Aston wouldn't be far off.

By contrast, I was reading an article on the HR Owen magazine which was highlighting some of the service items on the Veyron. Things like changing an alternator take 5 days.... yikes!

[Schnellmann]

Thanks again for the information.

I have called Porsche Reading and I'm waiting for John or Andy to give me a call back (as I'm thinking that I could buy a CGT out here in Switzerland and bring in back to the UK with me, but need to check on getting it registered for use in the UK).

Owing to lack of parking space, both here in Switzerland and in the UK when we come back, the CGT would be my only fun car. I do worry that the compromises I've read about (difficult to see out of, difficult to park, panic about the £5k wheels, etc) and the hit on resale value by actually driving it would mean it would sit in the garage too much. Does anyone else use the CGT as their only fun car, or is it normally part of a much bigger collection?