Audi A2 3l

[airbrakes]

I've been researching these on behalf of a friend who wants something very economical and genuinely quirky, different and intelligently designed. Having looked at the normal UK market 1.4 versions, they are only really as economical as any modern small car. The 3l seems to be where its at for ultimate miserly consumption, but why was it never sold in Britain? I know it wouldnt be practical to put a 1.2 engine in a normal UK car because so many of the 3l parts, including the shell, were specially lightened - but would it be feasible to buy a continental one and convert it to RHD using parts from a UK market car?
Also, whats the deal with the gearbox? How come the most economical variant of a car was built with an auto instead of a manual?

[big_boz]

airbrakes said:

I've been researching these on behalf of a friend who wants something very economical and genuinely quirky, different and intelligently designed. Having looked at the normal UK market 1.4 versions, they are only really as economical as any modern small car. The 3l seems to be where its at for ultimate miserly consumption, but why was it never sold in Britain? I know it wouldnt be practical to put a 1.2 engine in a normal UK car because so many of the 3l parts, including the shell, were specially lightened - but would it be feasible to buy a continental one and convert it to RHD using parts from a UK market car?
Also, whats the deal with the gearbox? How come the most economical variant of a car was built with an auto instead of a manual?

There is a Lupo 3l in LHD form that knocks about near where i work, i think its Polish, bet they are cheaper than A2's on the continent......

[deanogtv]

never sold in britian and from memory the nearest it got to our shores is france. The TDi engines are super eco

[danp]

box is an automated manual, assume changes up nice and early in auto mode for the mpg figures, has stop/start etc

guess 60+mpg for the normal 1.4tdi was good when they came out, but everything does that now (on paper at least!)

fancied importing a loop/a2 3L myself, but wld take a lot of miles to make up the extra cost and not sure my wife would be happy with LHD. RHD conversion would surely take it to silly money.

how about an original insight for your friend?

[amstrange1]

The 1.4TDI A2 seems to offer really good 'real life' fuel economy, is that worth a shot?

[J4CKO]

3L sounds more promising than it is.

[louiebaby]

J4CKO said:

3L sounds more promising than it is.

I'm not sure how true it is, but VW set about making it because they heard Renault were making a 3 litre Clio. VW thought they meant 3 litres per 100 km, Renault dropped a 3 litre V6 into a Clio where the back seats used to be.

This may be an urban legend.

[omgus]

louiebaby said:

J4CKO said:

3L sounds more promising than it is.

I'm not sure how true it is, but VW set about making it because they heard Renault were making a 3 litre Clio. VW thought they meant 3 litres per 100 km, Renault dropped a 3 litre V6 into a Clio where the back seats used to be.

This may be an urban legend.

I have head that as well.

I really hope it's true.

[Matt UK]

omgus said:

louiebaby said:

J4CKO said:

3L sounds more promising than it is.

I'm not sure how true it is, but VW set about making it because they heard Renault were making a 3 litre Clio. VW thought they meant 3 litres per 100 km, Renault dropped a 3 litre V6 into a Clio where the back seats used to be.

This may be an urban legend.

I have head that as well.

I really hope it's true.

Likewise - I love the thought of the engineers crossing paths at some remote testing location.
The French and all grins, opposite lock, burnt rubber as they hoon past.
The Germans doing dead-on 56mph just look around their car with a frown and say "oh..."

[airbrakes]

Matt UK said:

Likewise - I love the thought of the engineers crossing paths at some remote testing location.
The French and all grins, opposite lock, burnt rubber as they hoon past.
The Germans doing dead-on 56mph just look around their car with a frown and say "oh..."

I think he wants an A2 rather than a Lupo, because for him the Lupo carries connotations of association with, as he puts it, "fking dubbers". I also struggle to see how it can be as economical, being designed as a normal hatchback thats both heavier and less aerodynamic than the A2 which was always designed with the £l goal in mind.

Any more thoughts on the feasbility of a left-right hand drive swap? Shirely its should just be a case of new dash and pedalbox, steering rack and a few other bits that are all available off the shelf for RHD? unless there is something about the underbonnet layout of the 1.2 physically preventing the fitment?
As for the cost, well I suppose it depends how many secondhand parts can be bought and what the existing bits can be sold on for.

An insight isnt really the same I'm afraid - its a hybrid and therefore the devil's technology. Revolutionary super-eco IC engines are brilliant but batteries are a no-no, in both of our opinions

Edited by airbrakes on Thursday 23 May 17:05

[Kell]

Wouldn't the cost of the conversion outweigh the potential fuel savings?

[Amateurish]

First gen Honda Insight would be a better choice, as long as you didn't need 4 seats.

[Deerfoot]

www.a2oc.net will be your best bet for A2 stuff. They're a friendly bunch with loads of information.

However, the comments from Kell below couldn't sum it up better.

Kell said:

Wouldn't the cost of the conversion outweigh the potential fuel savings?

[wemorgan]

airbrakes said:

I've been researching these on behalf of a friend who wants something very economical and genuinely quirky, different and intelligently designed. Having looked at the normal UK market 1.4 versions, they are only really as economical as any modern small car. The 3l seems to be where its at for ultimate miserly consumption, but why was it never sold in Britain? I know it wouldnt be practical to put a 1.2 engine in a normal UK car because so many of the 3l parts, including the shell, were specially lightened - but would it be feasible to buy a continental one and convert it to RHD using parts from a UK market car?
Also, whats the deal with the gearbox? How come the most economical variant of a car was built with an auto instead of a manual?

Whilst the A2 is as efficient as today's small cars, it's still as spacious as a Mk1 Focus. Depreciation of the A2 today is very low, so total running costs remain very low compared to newer cars.

Most weight savings were not in the aluminium body shell, but with the engine itself, the glass, wheels, interior seats and having only a few options available.

If saving money is no.1, then buy a LHD 1.2TDI and drive it as it is. There is good demand for the 1.2TDI, but the 1.4TDI RHD offers better value for money.

It was cost prohibitive for Audi to convert the 1.2TDi to RHD for so few potential sales.

The auto box was not a torque converter type, but a manual gearbox with an automatic actuator, making it very fuel efficient.

[Bennet]

I owned a tdi for the best part of a year. It's about 90% as economical as everyone says it is - which is more than enough. By the time you're getting 50 mpg (that's around the suburbs) you wont care about an extra 5. The aforementioned owners club is one of the good ones. Helpful and no idiots. If I were to buy another one, I'd get a 1.6 petrol.

[hedges88]

danp said:

box is an automated manual, assume changes up nice and early in auto mode for the mpg figures, has stop/start etc

guess 60+mpg for the normal 1.4tdi was good when they came out, but everything does that now (on paper at least!)

fancied importing a loop/a2 3L myself, but wld take a lot of miles to make up the extra cost and not sure my wife would be happy with LHD. RHD conversion would surely take it to silly money.

how about an original insight for your friend?

It's not an automated manual it's a CVT. CVT will help keep it in the optimum range for economy but would not have been as economical even as a manual gearbox or DSG or even a single clutch robotized gearbox. Better economy with a cvt than a traditional torque converter auto with a planetary gearset though

[danp]

hedges88 said:

It's not an automated manual it's a CVT. CVT will help keep it in the optimum range for economy but would not have been as economical even as a manual gearbox or DSG or even a single clutch robotized gearbox. Better economy with a cvt than a traditional torque converter auto with a planetary gearset though

not sure this is correct, have read up a fair bit on these and the lupo, pretty sure cvt has never been mentioned, what's your source? will see if i have any docs, think i have a nice pdf with good detail on the tech bits.

[danp]

electronic manual box, based on a manual box..i'd imagine the a2 is the same ;-)

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_218.p...

http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_221.p...

Edited by danp on Thursday 23 May 21:23

[davepoth]

Sounds like it's an automated manual with lots of electronic tricks like freewheeling.

As has been said a normal 1.4TDi is almost certainly a better bet for day to day driving, as the 3l seems to have quite a few model specific bits.

[tbc]

i have two A2's

1.4 SE and a 1.6 FSI SPORT with leather

get about 45 and 38 mpg

cracking cars though

if you want good economy then go for the 1.4 TDI