New Caterham Supersport advice / spec / options help !
Discussion
Hi everyone,
Long time PH,er from the early Ted days, but lurking for years now as been going thru the work, kids, divorce, skint phase of life - a bloody long phase as it happens...
Anyway, at the age of 45, I have decided it time for a toy and have decided on a Caterham Seven Supersport. The Roadsport a bit too tame and the R300/400 a bit too track focused. I wanted a Seven that would be pure driving, focus me completely about what used to make driving fun - use would be 90% road, 10% track. I intend to use the 7 all year, just not perhaps every day!
My history is 30+ cars and bikes, some highlights being Alpina Roadster S, Alpina B3, TVR Tuscan, Lotus Elise, Ducati 748/749,916,996, Corrado VR6, 348, F355; current daily drive is a Mk5 Golf GTi.
The days of mega money or mega power are behind me. I want usable power, a car i can drive near to the limit, one that rewards and is, in short, an event.
So if i went for the Supersport, would i feel short changed by not going for the Supersport R. Is it not just power? Is the Duratec 2.0 better in terms of feel, delivery, sound as well as torque/power compared to the 1.6 Sigma - or is the smaller engined car more of a hoot??
The Std Supersport with 13" wheels seems a total blast, but i prefer the aesthetics of the wider 8" rear or ever the 15" wheels - hmmm - anyone else gone thru this dilemma of which engine, which wheel combo to have?
And this is before we get to the seats, the lowered floor, weather, carbon and all the other options and extras!!!!!
Any advice, tips, help and general "been there, gone through this process" would be of enormous help.
I do intend to drive both, ASAP, but wanted to do a bit of research first
Thanks so much in advance.
Lee
Long time PH,er from the early Ted days, but lurking for years now as been going thru the work, kids, divorce, skint phase of life - a bloody long phase as it happens...
Anyway, at the age of 45, I have decided it time for a toy and have decided on a Caterham Seven Supersport. The Roadsport a bit too tame and the R300/400 a bit too track focused. I wanted a Seven that would be pure driving, focus me completely about what used to make driving fun - use would be 90% road, 10% track. I intend to use the 7 all year, just not perhaps every day!
My history is 30+ cars and bikes, some highlights being Alpina Roadster S, Alpina B3, TVR Tuscan, Lotus Elise, Ducati 748/749,916,996, Corrado VR6, 348, F355; current daily drive is a Mk5 Golf GTi.
The days of mega money or mega power are behind me. I want usable power, a car i can drive near to the limit, one that rewards and is, in short, an event.
So if i went for the Supersport, would i feel short changed by not going for the Supersport R. Is it not just power? Is the Duratec 2.0 better in terms of feel, delivery, sound as well as torque/power compared to the 1.6 Sigma - or is the smaller engined car more of a hoot??
The Std Supersport with 13" wheels seems a total blast, but i prefer the aesthetics of the wider 8" rear or ever the 15" wheels - hmmm - anyone else gone thru this dilemma of which engine, which wheel combo to have?
And this is before we get to the seats, the lowered floor, weather, carbon and all the other options and extras!!!!!
Any advice, tips, help and general "been there, gone through this process" would be of enormous help.
I do intend to drive both, ASAP, but wanted to do a bit of research first
Thanks so much in advance.
Lee
Let me just say firstly, don't think of the Roadsport as "tame". Mine's a Roadsport but has the 140 "Supersport" Sigma, wide track suspension, height adjustable platforms, LSD, rear anti roll bar, 6 speed box and all the trimmings. You can spec the car up to anything you want. The main differences between my Roadsport and Supersport, is that I have interior carpets, leather seats and full weather gear. We're doing a good mix of trackdays and road use and this feels like the best combination for us.
I've actually just ordered some wind deflectors so we can ditch the doors when the weather is nice enough.
Up to you really, but if you're going to drive all year round, you'll need the weather gear and the heater (frankly, I wouldn't be without either - though I can definitely see the appeal of the aeroscreen for trackdays).
With regards to the wheels, I've got 15's on mine at the moment and the ride can be a bit crashy. I'd also say, with the 15's, the 140 feels a bit overtyred, and it's actually pretty hard to get the back end out. I've bought a set of 6" wheels to go all round and I'm hoping that'll sort the problem out (And drop a bit of weight at the same time
). I definitely wouldn't go for the wider tyres on a 140, but with the Supersport R, I can imagine they may be a better fit. I'll report back when the wheels actually arrive and when I've bought some matching tyres.
For road use, the Duratec would be faster, but to be honest, I can scare myself with the Sigma as it is, apart from high speed overtaking, you'd be hard pushed to really need more power for the road, especially if you go for the 6 speed box since you can always drop a gear (or two) to get yourself more power!
The best advice I can offer you is to go to Caterham and hire one for a day. I was amazed at how fast a standard Sigma 125 felt, and was quite prepared to buy one until my 140 came uo for sale.
I've actually just ordered some wind deflectors so we can ditch the doors when the weather is nice enough.
Up to you really, but if you're going to drive all year round, you'll need the weather gear and the heater (frankly, I wouldn't be without either - though I can definitely see the appeal of the aeroscreen for trackdays).
With regards to the wheels, I've got 15's on mine at the moment and the ride can be a bit crashy. I'd also say, with the 15's, the 140 feels a bit overtyred, and it's actually pretty hard to get the back end out. I've bought a set of 6" wheels to go all round and I'm hoping that'll sort the problem out (And drop a bit of weight at the same time
). I definitely wouldn't go for the wider tyres on a 140, but with the Supersport R, I can imagine they may be a better fit. I'll report back when the wheels actually arrive and when I've bought some matching tyres.For road use, the Duratec would be faster, but to be honest, I can scare myself with the Sigma as it is, apart from high speed overtaking, you'd be hard pushed to really need more power for the road, especially if you go for the 6 speed box since you can always drop a gear (or two) to get yourself more power!
The best advice I can offer you is to go to Caterham and hire one for a day. I was amazed at how fast a standard Sigma 125 felt, and was quite prepared to buy one until my 140 came uo for sale.
Perhaps i should clarify, i meant "tame" in relation to going higher up the Caterham range!!!
I am leaning towards a regular Supersport (5 spd box), 13" wheels, full weather gear, heater, std seats, floor, belts, with a splash of carbon maybe?
Good advice to hire one for the day - I may just do that.
Thanks
I am leaning towards a regular Supersport (5 spd box), 13" wheels, full weather gear, heater, std seats, floor, belts, with a splash of carbon maybe?
Good advice to hire one for the day - I may just do that.
Thanks
Hi,
We bought a Sigma Superlight nearly two years ago but had all the Super Sport options fitted as this was just about to be released. This included carbon all round, six speed box, Titan LSD, lowered floors, wide track front suspension, tillet seats, four point harnesses, unrated brakes and master cylinder, 8" wide 13" diameter CR500's for the rear, stayed with 6" on the front. Our car has a 200 horsepower Sigma in it, we have used this with our 155 horsepower Sigma in this on track and is still a quick car. I highly recommend the lowered floors as the driving position is much improved. I've driven Road Sports with padded seats and standard floors and the drive feels very spongy. The Super Sport suspension with lowered floors and Tillet seats is great.
The purpose of our car was to build a car from standard Caterham parts as light as reasonably possible. Our car with our 200 horsepower Sigma which is 23 kgs lighter than a 2.0 litre Duratec weighs in at 507kgs with weather gear fitted (no hood) and a full tank of fuel. Going by Caterham's numbers, this is an R400 potentially.
Where abouts are you based? You are more than welcome to have a look at our car and chat through things if you want.
Best regards
SKC
We bought a Sigma Superlight nearly two years ago but had all the Super Sport options fitted as this was just about to be released. This included carbon all round, six speed box, Titan LSD, lowered floors, wide track front suspension, tillet seats, four point harnesses, unrated brakes and master cylinder, 8" wide 13" diameter CR500's for the rear, stayed with 6" on the front. Our car has a 200 horsepower Sigma in it, we have used this with our 155 horsepower Sigma in this on track and is still a quick car. I highly recommend the lowered floors as the driving position is much improved. I've driven Road Sports with padded seats and standard floors and the drive feels very spongy. The Super Sport suspension with lowered floors and Tillet seats is great.
The purpose of our car was to build a car from standard Caterham parts as light as reasonably possible. Our car with our 200 horsepower Sigma which is 23 kgs lighter than a 2.0 litre Duratec weighs in at 507kgs with weather gear fitted (no hood) and a full tank of fuel. Going by Caterham's numbers, this is an R400 potentially.
Where abouts are you based? You are more than welcome to have a look at our car and chat through things if you want.
Best regards
SKC
I went through the same thought process as yourself a few months back. I ended up going for the R version for the following reasons:-
- I had to have the 8" rears (purely for aesthetics) but still wanted the car to be easy to slide.
- I figured I'd rather have more power than I'd ever need instead of always wondering about upgrades. (although i understand the Supersport is pretty much perfect)
- I want to use the car as often as possible (including commuting on dry days) so i thought the torquier engine would be better suited.
In terms of options, I went for the creature comforts (lowered floors, weather pack, heater, 12v) and a couple of shiny bits. Was also advised to go for the trackday rollbar and 6pt competition harnesses.
I'm sure whatever you go for will be amazing. My kit is due to be delivered next week. Can't wait!
- I had to have the 8" rears (purely for aesthetics) but still wanted the car to be easy to slide.
- I figured I'd rather have more power than I'd ever need instead of always wondering about upgrades. (although i understand the Supersport is pretty much perfect)
- I want to use the car as often as possible (including commuting on dry days) so i thought the torquier engine would be better suited.
In terms of options, I went for the creature comforts (lowered floors, weather pack, heater, 12v) and a couple of shiny bits. Was also advised to go for the trackday rollbar and 6pt competition harnesses.
I'm sure whatever you go for will be amazing. My kit is due to be delivered next week. Can't wait!
Thanks for the replies so far. In response:
framerateuk - yes i believe you do get harnesses as std. I agree on a std seatbelt not being enough. Crossed my mind as to whether 4/5/6 harness would fit my 10 year old son (with a booster seat maybe?)
SKC - Brilliant info - thanks. I sat in a load of them yesterday at Crawley (I work Dorking, live Epsom) and actually preferred the std floors - felt more racer-ish! Although when i come to drive them, it may well be that i prefer the lowered floor? I am 80kg/12 st and 5'11" - so no giant !
uremaw - I completely understand your logic here. I too preferred the look of the 8" rears for the same reason. The 6x13's look lost in the rear wheel arch. The vive from Caterham was to stick with the 6" rears on a std Supersport, only going for the 8" rears on the Supersport R as the combo of wider rears and lower power wont make them break traction quite so easily !
I want to use it for as much commuting as well and i did think about torque and the general nature of the engine .... guess driving them both is the answer here!!
Thanks again for all the help so far))
framerateuk - yes i believe you do get harnesses as std. I agree on a std seatbelt not being enough. Crossed my mind as to whether 4/5/6 harness would fit my 10 year old son (with a booster seat maybe?)
SKC - Brilliant info - thanks. I sat in a load of them yesterday at Crawley (I work Dorking, live Epsom) and actually preferred the std floors - felt more racer-ish! Although when i come to drive them, it may well be that i prefer the lowered floor? I am 80kg/12 st and 5'11" - so no giant !
uremaw - I completely understand your logic here. I too preferred the look of the 8" rears for the same reason. The 6x13's look lost in the rear wheel arch. The vive from Caterham was to stick with the 6" rears on a std Supersport, only going for the 8" rears on the Supersport R as the combo of wider rears and lower power wont make them break traction quite so easily !
I want to use it for as much commuting as well and i did think about torque and the general nature of the engine .... guess driving them both is the answer here!!
Thanks again for all the help so far
))
(Badger, as you can see it's down to personal preference a lot of the time
I'm 5'8" and I've got lowered floors on mine, and I wouldn't want to be any higher, I feel it's pretty much perfect as-is. The other half needs a foam seatpad to make her tall enough to drive it mind. Try both and see what works best for you. I think because I've got the leather seats that my seating position is probably an inch or so higher anyway, so it may well even itself out if you have the tillets fitted on the standard floors.
I'm 5'8" and I've got lowered floors on mine, and I wouldn't want to be any higher, I feel it's pretty much perfect as-is. The other half needs a foam seatpad to make her tall enough to drive it mind. Try both and see what works best for you. I think because I've got the leather seats that my seating position is probably an inch or so higher anyway, so it may well even itself out if you have the tillets fitted on the standard floors.
Badger, very impressive car history indeed. You'll have a decent knowledge of cars already then. F355; Yummy!!
I think from the power/wheel point of view, you'd have just as much fun in a lower powered 6" rear as a higher powered 8". Maybe as a first 7 the former might be better, as you'll probably be going slower when it breaks traction. Had a blat last week on some awesome country roads in Cumbria with the lads in my Roadsport and never once did I think "I wish I had a Supersport." More like "I hope I don't hit that sheep/drystone wall/pheasent doing *&%mph"
I have a major bee in my bonnet about the 6" rear issue to he honest and 13" vs 15". Looks be damned, not what Sevens are about, filling the rear arch *face palm*, but hey horses for courses. My opinion is they are ALL about handling. Buying a Seven for looks I think is wrong, but some will disagree. Once you are driving on beautiful roads with the wind in your(or not in my case) and sun on your face you won't give two hoots about the size of your wheels. ;-)
Buy one and welcome to the club. You'll never look back.
I think from the power/wheel point of view, you'd have just as much fun in a lower powered 6" rear as a higher powered 8". Maybe as a first 7 the former might be better, as you'll probably be going slower when it breaks traction. Had a blat last week on some awesome country roads in Cumbria with the lads in my Roadsport and never once did I think "I wish I had a Supersport." More like "I hope I don't hit that sheep/drystone wall/pheasent doing *&%mph"
I have a major bee in my bonnet about the 6" rear issue to he honest and 13" vs 15". Looks be damned, not what Sevens are about, filling the rear arch *face palm*, but hey horses for courses. My opinion is they are ALL about handling. Buying a Seven for looks I think is wrong, but some will disagree. Once you are driving on beautiful roads with the wind in your(or not in my case) and sun on your face you won't give two hoots about the size of your wheels. ;-)
Buy one and welcome to the club. You'll never look back.
Smashing advice!
I last drove a Seven about 15-20 years ago (around Oulton Park) but so much has happened since then I can't remember what it was like - sitting in various examples yesterday was quite exciting and interesting.
They look so tiny when you stand over them, yet when seated, the bonnet seems to stick out more than Russ Meyer's friends on a film set (older readers will get that....)
I guess i need to "feel" the car rather than "look".
Thanks again - Lee
I last drove a Seven about 15-20 years ago (around Oulton Park) but so much has happened since then I can't remember what it was like - sitting in various examples yesterday was quite exciting and interesting.
They look so tiny when you stand over them, yet when seated, the bonnet seems to stick out more than Russ Meyer's friends on a film set (older readers will get that....)
I guess i need to "feel" the car rather than "look".
Thanks again - Lee
Lee, I concur with the others that it is more about 'feel' than 'looks', and that the 13" wheels are definitely the way to go.
I don't feel qualified on whether or not the power will be an issue for you (as my first and only Caterham is an R500, you can probably guess where I fall on the 'how much power' scale!) but as regards the options I took, I did spec the full weather gear but it has never been out of the bag. I immediately fitted a half-hood, and short of a typhoon I can't really see the need for anything more than that whilst on the move. So unless you are planning on extended trips where the car will be out in the open, I would forgo the weather gear (you can spec windscreen and doors without the roof).
I have a lowered floor and tillets, and find the driving position and view through the windscreen to be spot on (I'm 5'11"). In a standard floored car I felt a little like I was sitting on, rather than in the car. Only downside of being so low is toll booths and car parks can be difficult to reach from the seat without unbuckling.
Have fun with the decision making, it will all be worth it in the end!
I don't feel qualified on whether or not the power will be an issue for you (as my first and only Caterham is an R500, you can probably guess where I fall on the 'how much power' scale!) but as regards the options I took, I did spec the full weather gear but it has never been out of the bag. I immediately fitted a half-hood, and short of a typhoon I can't really see the need for anything more than that whilst on the move. So unless you are planning on extended trips where the car will be out in the open, I would forgo the weather gear (you can spec windscreen and doors without the roof).
I have a lowered floor and tillets, and find the driving position and view through the windscreen to be spot on (I'm 5'11"). In a standard floored car I felt a little like I was sitting on, rather than in the car. Only downside of being so low is toll booths and car parks can be difficult to reach from the seat without unbuckling
.Have fun with the decision making, it will all be worth it in the end!
Agree with Matt 100%. Half hood; I've still to get one but it's on the list. I've used my full hood once, when I picked the car up. That's only cause it was a 5 hour drive in -10c in January last. There are two camps tbh half hoods and aeroscreens. People how use full hoods are rare. My cat likes mine; it's under the sofa and she sleeps on it.
When I buy my next one, and there will be another no matter what the missus says, I'll be concerntrating on the major items engine, suspension, gearbox, diff, seats and wheels/tyres for the spec. After that it's all just taste IMO.
When I buy my next one, and there will be another no matter what the missus says, I'll be concerntrating on the major items engine, suspension, gearbox, diff, seats and wheels/tyres for the spec. After that it's all just taste IMO.
mattmurdock - an R500 is a clear statement of intent !
Seems the pro's and con's of how much power v how much grip can be argued either way - very interesting.
The full screen is probably a good idea as my two most likely passengers are a g/f with long hair and a 10 year old son - neither will adorn full face helmets.....
I personally like the aero screen - do you use that without a helmet on the roads though???
BraddrersCat7 - The lack of use of the hood also seems to be common, like the lowered floor. Good advice. Cheers
Lee
Seems the pro's and con's of how much power v how much grip can be argued either way - very interesting.
The full screen is probably a good idea as my two most likely passengers are a g/f with long hair and a 10 year old son - neither will adorn full face helmets.....
I personally like the aero screen - do you use that without a helmet on the roads though???
BraddrersCat7 - The lack of use of the hood also seems to be common, like the lowered floor. Good advice. Cheers
Lee
badger748 said:
Corrado VR6
A man of taste badger748 said:
The days of mega money or mega power are behind me. I want usable power, a car i can drive near to the limit, one that rewards and is, in short, an event.
So if i went for the Supersport, would i feel short changed by not going for the Supersport R. Is it not just power? Is the Duratec 2.0 better in terms of feel, delivery, sound as well as torque/power compared to the 1.6 Sigma - or is the smaller engined car more of a hoot??
To be honest most of what you are asking is subjective and I'm not sure anyone can truly answer that for you. A test drive of both is the best option. I've not driven a Sigma or Duratec powered 7 but I liked the K-Series engine and it was in my budget. So if i went for the Supersport, would i feel short changed by not going for the Supersport R. Is it not just power? Is the Duratec 2.0 better in terms of feel, delivery, sound as well as torque/power compared to the 1.6 Sigma - or is the smaller engined car more of a hoot??
When I took the K-Series car for a blast I was hooked. Maybe a different 7 would have been better but the 1.6 K gave me want I wanted so I didn't go looking elsewhere.
My only recommendation would be tillets and lowered floors. Both work beautifully for me 5' 9" and 12st.
The key point is that all Sevens are more alike each other than they are alike any normal road car. So they are all similar but some go quicker than others. I have had 130 to 220 bhp and loved them all; I drove a 125 Sigma the other day and it was delightful- not as quick as full bore in my R400 but how often do I use all of the horses and for how long ? I would say that lowered floors are an absolute must, as is a half hood ; so far as boxes are concerned the 6 speed is a blast but feels comically undergeared at first. The five speed is very long legged in top which you may see as a good or bad thing. I was and am happy with either.I have a Stack dash - OK but I wouldn't bother again I don't think- I quite like analogue instruments . A proper FIA bar and decent full harnesses are essential. I like chrome lights and don't mind admitting it- the reflections are wonderful so don't automatically assume you need to go all black pack- some of us don't. Windscreen- I value my head and eyes and look a t
t in a helmet outside Tesco's so full screen for me . It's personal- lots of people love aeros- I don't and the benefit does not balance the risk to me.
Don't assume Superlights are not suitable for touring - they are, as many 400 plus mile days in mine attest.
How much power is ideal- I reckon 160-170 bhp is brilliant for nearly all the time. Less is OK but overtaking not quite as effortless; more is grin inducing but not sure I would have the same amount again.OK I am- I would - but I don't need it !
t in a helmet outside Tesco's so full screen for me . It's personal- lots of people love aeros- I don't and the benefit does not balance the risk to me.Don't assume Superlights are not suitable for touring - they are, as many 400 plus mile days in mine attest.
How much power is ideal- I reckon 160-170 bhp is brilliant for nearly all the time. Less is OK but overtaking not quite as effortless; more is grin inducing but not sure I would have the same amount again.OK I am- I would - but I don't need it !
Read your post with interest Badger as I went though the same thought process exactly a few weeks back. In short I ended up going for the R as the 140 didn't feel sufficient. Although an oddly titled post from me, if you look through the following post for my responses you will find lots of useful info about the sigma versus Duratec debate and why I went for the latter
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
In terms of spec, I went with the following:
Weather gear
5 speed (much better for the road in my opinion but needs the extra torque of the Duratec to make it really work on the road. I like 5th being taller as when your driving quick on the road you don't generally need 5th but its handy to have when motorway crushing)
8" rears (initially selected 15" but decided after looking into it that 13" would be better. Having driven an R on 6" rears during test drive and seeing how easily the tail stepped out I decided 8" would work pretty well)
Lowered floors (and I'm 5ft 8 as is other half, both agreed this was better when coupled with leather seats)
Hope that helps and do read the other post it will be useful to you sure.
Cheers
Tom
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
In terms of spec, I went with the following:
Weather gear
5 speed (much better for the road in my opinion but needs the extra torque of the Duratec to make it really work on the road. I like 5th being taller as when your driving quick on the road you don't generally need 5th but its handy to have when motorway crushing)
8" rears (initially selected 15" but decided after looking into it that 13" would be better. Having driven an R on 6" rears during test drive and seeing how easily the tail stepped out I decided 8" would work pretty well)
Lowered floors (and I'm 5ft 8 as is other half, both agreed this was better when coupled with leather seats)
Hope that helps and do read the other post it will be useful to you sure.
Cheers
Tom
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