Discussion
Evening Guys
Well the car is pretty much completed and just requires a mechanic to tune my engine as its still running a little rough (Carb conversion) anyone know of a good mechanic in the purley, surrey or surrounding area or am happy to paid the going rate if one off you guys can complete, as just want to use the car though the rest off the summer, drop me a pm if interested, cheers, Ralph
Well the car is pretty much completed and just requires a mechanic to tune my engine as its still running a little rough (Carb conversion) anyone know of a good mechanic in the purley, surrey or surrounding area or am happy to paid the going rate if one off you guys can complete, as just want to use the car though the rest off the summer, drop me a pm if interested, cheers, Ralph
Danny Hoffman said:
In what way is it running rough? If I remember correctly didn't the carb get fitted for a fueling problem. Is it possible the EFi was ok and you have another issue?
Hi DannyI completely rebuilt the engine mate, so am pretty sure its not a engine fault as it does sound sweet, the problem I have is it pops and bangs and I cant get it to idle very well mate, have identified that the throttle spring is too weak, so this could be the cause of the idle running high 2k, but its very hard to drive on part throttle, its ok above 2k, but either the timings way out or jets I replaced are incorrect, am unsure mate
Ralph did you service the dizzy when you did the engine work fella?? Just check the internals and bob weight and vacuum operation then check the timing. With cleaned plugs any looking black or wet after a bit of running up to warm?
If you were a bit closer I would pop by with my timing gun!
Chris
If you were a bit closer I would pop by with my timing gun!
Chris
If its a Webber 500 you have this is a good read on setting them up. May help.
http://how-to-build-a-pilgrim-sumo.wikidot.com/fue...
http://how-to-build-a-pilgrim-sumo.wikidot.com/fue...
Jack Valiant said:
Ralph did you service the dizzy when you did the engine work fella?? Just check the internals and bob weight and vacuum operation then check the timing. With cleaned plugs any looking black or wet after a bit of running up to warm?
If you were a bit closer I would pop by with my timing gun!
Chris
Hi ChrisIf you were a bit closer I would pop by with my timing gun!
Chris
It had a complete new dizzy installed and did run better after, am starting to think that I may have got the timing way out which is causing the engine to back firer/ pop, could you advise that when cylinder 1 is at TDC, it should be near or thereabouts around the pully marks, as am pretty sure its like quarter turn before? petrol money at the ready mate
cheers, Ralph Car runs with no idle screw??????Edited by ralph350i on Sunday 16th June 21:46
Yes with No1 (or No 6) at TDC it should be bang on the TDC timing mark.
If not it could be the pulley is in the wrong place. But then it was you wot rebuilt the engine.... ;^) On mine it was a good 25 degrees out.
I think it will be tricky to set up now the heads are on but you can try. I had some success with my electrical probe and buzzer but I haven't made the attachment so you can stick it in the spark plug hole, as yet. But if you're desperate I'll make one up and test it on mine.
If not it could be the pulley is in the wrong place. But then it was you wot rebuilt the engine.... ;^) On mine it was a good 25 degrees out.
I think it will be tricky to set up now the heads are on but you can try. I had some success with my electrical probe and buzzer but I haven't made the attachment so you can stick it in the spark plug hole, as yet. But if you're desperate I'll make one up and test it on mine.
Edited by adam quantrill on Sunday 16th June 22:58
carsy said:
If its a Webber 500 you have this is a good read on setting them up. May help.
http://how-to-build-a-pilgrim-sumo.wikidot.com/fue...
Hi Carsyhttp://how-to-build-a-pilgrim-sumo.wikidot.com/fue...
The guy who's web site that is advised on the jet size I am running, so you would have thought its as near as dam it, cheers
Adam
If I remember correctly the pulley has a woodrough ( cant spell) key, so there's only one way it can be installed, please correct me if I am wrong mate and am pretty sure at TDC its nowhere near the pulley marks, so how ive managed that god knows ? is there not some type of gauge I can buy or if I have to I,ll pull the heads off if necessary, as really need to sort this out, cheers
As the others have said does sound like it could be a timing problem
You could insert a plastic tube (or straw) into no 1 cylinder through the plug hole and manually turn the engine to get a rough idea where TDC is. Adam's was 25 degrees out, so if yours is that far out it should be noticeable.
ralph350i said:
am pretty sure at TDC its nowhere near the pulley marks,
There is a thread about this, apparently some car's marks are miles off despite the woodruff key - must be a manufacturing problem or mismatched parts I would have thought?You could insert a plastic tube (or straw) into no 1 cylinder through the plug hole and manually turn the engine to get a rough idea where TDC is. Adam's was 25 degrees out, so if yours is that far out it should be noticeable.
Woodruff - I know what you mean. Yes if it's engaged on that then theoretically it could only be a degree or two out (depending on whether the key or keyway is work or fretted).
So the other possibility is that the stampings on the pulley are in the wrong place - it does happen! I noticed mine is actually stamped twice, with what looks like the first attempt being mostly skimmed off, and a further 10 degrees round the pulley.
See here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
THis is how I measured TDC - notice a small (out of focus) gold pin at the bottom of the dial gauge - this is a special contact that I also tried out which turns out to be accurate to 2/10th of a thou.
So the other possibility is that the stampings on the pulley are in the wrong place - it does happen! I noticed mine is actually stamped twice, with what looks like the first attempt being mostly skimmed off, and a further 10 degrees round the pulley.
See here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
THis is how I measured TDC - notice a small (out of focus) gold pin at the bottom of the dial gauge - this is a special contact that I also tried out which turns out to be accurate to 2/10th of a thou.
Danny Hoffman said:
There is a thread about this, apparently some car's marks are miles off despite the woodruff key - must be a manufacturing problem or mismatched parts I would have thought?
You could insert a plastic tube (or straw) into no 1 cylinder through the plug hole and manually turn the engine to get a rough idea where TDC is. Adam's was 25 degrees out, so if yours is that far out it should be noticeable.
Morning DannyYou could insert a plastic tube (or straw) into no 1 cylinder through the plug hole and manually turn the engine to get a rough idea where TDC is. Adam's was 25 degrees out, so if yours is that far out it should be noticeable.
Whoever timed the car before me, marked the pulley so that's what I've been working off, but as the engine has been rebuilt, the timing could have been moved or set correctly.
You can pretty much see when piston 1 is at TDC and I use the wet issue trick to make sure its on the compression stroke, just wondering if I mark the pulley in its new position, I would then be near enough, but its a little worrying as its miles out, cheers
ralph350i said:
but as the engine has been rebuilt, the timing could have been moved or set correctly.
Did your rebuild include a new crank shaft, or if you sent yours away to be reground could they have swapped it for another? This might explain the difference.If you have a rough idea where TDC is I'd be inclined to try setting the timing using that rather than a mark put on the pulley be a previous owner that is nowhere near TDC. Can you see the original stamped marks from the manufacturer?
As Danny is hinting at - the only variables here are the crankshaft, the slot, and the pulley.
So if you are using the same crank and pulley it shouldn't have changed - assuming you got the key in the slot OK on reassembly.
When the crankshaft No. 1 bearing is pointing up at the cylinder, that's the point it's at TDC so not much can interfere with this...
The straw technique will spot gross inaccuracies but when you are within +/-5 degrees of TDC you really are looking at a few thou of movement - maybe a mm or two? Because the crank bearing is swinging past and not moving much in the direction of the cylinder. So yes - try it out to check for a rough idea.
Also - double check that you get mechanical advance (vacuum off - it advances when you rev it) and that the vacuum advance works (suck on the pipe).
So if you are using the same crank and pulley it shouldn't have changed - assuming you got the key in the slot OK on reassembly.
When the crankshaft No. 1 bearing is pointing up at the cylinder, that's the point it's at TDC so not much can interfere with this...
The straw technique will spot gross inaccuracies but when you are within +/-5 degrees of TDC you really are looking at a few thou of movement - maybe a mm or two? Because the crank bearing is swinging past and not moving much in the direction of the cylinder. So yes - try it out to check for a rough idea.
Also - double check that you get mechanical advance (vacuum off - it advances when you rev it) and that the vacuum advance works (suck on the pipe).
Danny Hoffman said:
Did your rebuild include a new crank shaft, or if you sent yours away to be reground could they have swapped it for another? This might explain the difference.
If you have a rough idea where TDC is I'd be inclined to try setting the timing using that rather than a mark put on the pulley be a previous owner that is nowhere near TDC. Can you see the original stamped marks from the manufacturer?
Hi DannyIf you have a rough idea where TDC is I'd be inclined to try setting the timing using that rather than a mark put on the pulley be a previous owner that is nowhere near TDC. Can you see the original stamped marks from the manufacturer?
I stamped the crank mate as am well aware of this type of move and yes i can see the original marks which is where the guy had marked the pulley, i,ll try again with what is TDC and mark the pulley and crank by hand just in case i am way off the mark, thanks for your help
adam quantrill said:
As Danny is hinting at - the only variables here are the crankshaft, the slot, and the pulley.
So if you are using the same crank and pulley it shouldn't have changed - assuming you got the key in the slot OK on reassembly.
When the crankshaft No. 1 bearing is pointing up at the cylinder, that's the point it's at TDC so not much can interfere with this...
The straw technique will spot gross inaccuracies but when you are within +/-5 degrees of TDC you really are looking at a few thou of movement - maybe a mm or two? Because the crank bearing is swinging past and not moving much in the direction of the cylinder. So yes - try it out to check for a rough idea.
Also - double check that you get mechanical advance (vacuum off - it advances when you rev it) and that the vacuum advance works (suck on the pipe).
Hi AdamSo if you are using the same crank and pulley it shouldn't have changed - assuming you got the key in the slot OK on reassembly.
When the crankshaft No. 1 bearing is pointing up at the cylinder, that's the point it's at TDC so not much can interfere with this...
The straw technique will spot gross inaccuracies but when you are within +/-5 degrees of TDC you really are looking at a few thou of movement - maybe a mm or two? Because the crank bearing is swinging past and not moving much in the direction of the cylinder. So yes - try it out to check for a rough idea.
Also - double check that you get mechanical advance (vacuum off - it advances when you rev it) and that the vacuum advance works (suck on the pipe).
Am pretty sure i put all items back in the correct order and Vac advance is working fine, so i,ll try again and see where the pulley ends up, mark and check from there, if all else fails have been in contact with the guy who services my vans as maybe need a fresh pair off hands on the job as completed it soooooooooooo many times am getting confused lol, again thanks very much, Regards, Ralph
Just a wild card: you are using the front left cylinder as No. 1, aren't you...
If you use a DTI as Adam says, the best way to find TDC with it once you're very near is to rock the crank until the DTI reads say 10 thou of movement, make a chalk mark on the crank pulley adjacent to the timing pointer then rock the opposite way, past where TDC should be, until you see the same displacement (i.e. 10 thou), make another mark next to the timing pointer then back the crank to halfway between the marks and Roberto is your Italian mother's fraternal sibling
This method of course ignores the fact that the main and big-end bearings have next to no oil on the surfaces (so will have an amount of 'lash') but given all the other engine tolerances, it'd certainly be close enough as makes no difference.
If you use a DTI as Adam says, the best way to find TDC with it once you're very near is to rock the crank until the DTI reads say 10 thou of movement, make a chalk mark on the crank pulley adjacent to the timing pointer then rock the opposite way, past where TDC should be, until you see the same displacement (i.e. 10 thou), make another mark next to the timing pointer then back the crank to halfway between the marks and Roberto is your Italian mother's fraternal sibling
This method of course ignores the fact that the main and big-end bearings have next to no oil on the surfaces (so will have an amount of 'lash') but given all the other engine tolerances, it'd certainly be close enough as makes no difference.
I used a piston stop, basically an old spark plug with a M8 dome headed bolt welded to it to stop the piston before TDC.
Make a marker attached to the block preferably away from the std marks (e.g welding wire or similar)
Insert the piston stop into no1 pot, rotate the engine (by hand) till the piston hits the stop and make a mark on the pulley, rotate the engine the opposite way until it hits the stop again and make a second mark.
TDC is exactly mid way between the two and can be found using a degree disk or your offspring's protractor. From memory my TDC was about 5 degrees out, but the crank pulley and crank where made about 4 years apart.
Make a marker attached to the block preferably away from the std marks (e.g welding wire or similar)
Insert the piston stop into no1 pot, rotate the engine (by hand) till the piston hits the stop and make a mark on the pulley, rotate the engine the opposite way until it hits the stop again and make a second mark.
TDC is exactly mid way between the two and can be found using a degree disk or your offspring's protractor. From memory my TDC was about 5 degrees out, but the crank pulley and crank where made about 4 years apart.
Wedg1e said:
Just a wild card: you are using the front left cylinder as No. 1, aren't you...
If you use a DTI as Adam says, the best way to find TDC with it once you're very near is to rock the crank until the DTI reads say 10 thou of movement, make a chalk mark on the crank pulley adjacent to the timing pointer then rock the opposite way, past where TDC should be, until you see the same displacement (i.e. 10 thou), make another mark next to the timing pointer then back the crank to halfway between the marks and Roberto is your Italian mother's fraternal sibling
This method of course ignores the fact that the main and big-end bearings have next to no oil on the surfaces (so will have an amount of 'lash') but given all the other engine tolerances, it'd certainly be close enough as makes no difference.
Front Left? please tell me you mean front right when standing in front off car? or you pulling my pudIf you use a DTI as Adam says, the best way to find TDC with it once you're very near is to rock the crank until the DTI reads say 10 thou of movement, make a chalk mark on the crank pulley adjacent to the timing pointer then rock the opposite way, past where TDC should be, until you see the same displacement (i.e. 10 thou), make another mark next to the timing pointer then back the crank to halfway between the marks and Roberto is your Italian mother's fraternal sibling
This method of course ignores the fact that the main and big-end bearings have next to no oil on the surfaces (so will have an amount of 'lash') but given all the other engine tolerances, it'd certainly be close enough as makes no difference.
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