Where is the weight in the E46 over the E36?
Discussion
After being impressed by an E30 with an E36 2.8 engine on the weekend I thought i'd do a bit more reading about 3 Series BMWs, never really consider them as no kids mean I've always just had 2 seaters.
Anyway I started to think an E46 M3 maybe a nice cheap reliable and practical car for euro road trips etc, it'd be inevitable that I'd end up taking it on track so started looking at aspects like weight - and then I was horrified, how on earth car a small car like the E46 weigh in at over 1500kg?
I then read a big thread about a chap extensively modifying his, carbon roof, wings, bonnet, striped out etc etc etc T45 cage and ended up 1400kg ish - all photos of corner weight scales at each big step of modification. He then made comment that he thinks claims of light weight E36 M3's are b
ks and figures like 1175kg are mentioned. I have also heard people at track days say E36's are light comparatively. So is this weight disparity between the two essentially very similar cars really this big? If so where is all the weight, is the shell that much heavier >200kg? I did read a review saying E46 is 70% stiffer than E36.
Cheers
Anyway I started to think an E46 M3 maybe a nice cheap reliable and practical car for euro road trips etc, it'd be inevitable that I'd end up taking it on track so started looking at aspects like weight - and then I was horrified, how on earth car a small car like the E46 weigh in at over 1500kg?
I then read a big thread about a chap extensively modifying his, carbon roof, wings, bonnet, striped out etc etc etc T45 cage and ended up 1400kg ish - all photos of corner weight scales at each big step of modification. He then made comment that he thinks claims of light weight E36 M3's are b
ks and figures like 1175kg are mentioned. I have also heard people at track days say E36's are light comparatively. So is this weight disparity between the two essentially very similar cars really this big? If so where is all the weight, is the shell that much heavier >200kg? I did read a review saying E46 is 70% stiffer than E36.Cheers
One of my first cars was a Renault 5. You had to be gentle when you washed it for fear of denting the roof or doors. It felt like tin foil. Newer cars are made of stiffer and stringer metal now for safety regulations. They have a safety cell to protect the occupants in an accident. This all weighs in on the scales.
I heard that Firemen had to get newer stronger machinery to cut through the cars they find mangled with people trapped inside.
So even if you strip a car to a bare shell it will be heavier than a similar sized shell from 15 years ago.
I heard that Firemen had to get newer stronger machinery to cut through the cars they find mangled with people trapped inside.
So even if you strip a car to a bare shell it will be heavier than a similar sized shell from 15 years ago.
No, but it shows that if you end up deciding to turn it in to a track car there is nothing in it weight wise as you can unbolt everything from a shell, the shells the most important part and if true you have a ~100lb advantage with an E46. Also it has always seemed to be the argument for an E36 track car over E46 the E36 being lighter which it is as a starting point whole factory car but it doesn't follow logic that an E36 should end up lighter when stripped.
1,460 kg E36 M3 from wiki
1,549 kg E46 M3 from wiki
So the newer car from the factory I guess, has more airbags, electric equipment, sound deadening? It does appear the thread I read where the E46 modifier called BS on light weight stripped E36 may have foundation? The shell weights posted therefore imply the E46 comes from the factory carrying ~150kg more bolted to the shell than the E36, that is a lot.
1,549 kg E46 M3 from wiki
So the newer car from the factory I guess, has more airbags, electric equipment, sound deadening? It does appear the thread I read where the E46 modifier called BS on light weight stripped E36 may have foundation? The shell weights posted therefore imply the E46 comes from the factory carrying ~150kg more bolted to the shell than the E36, that is a lot.
ATM said:
One of my first cars was a Renault 5. You had to be gentle when you washed it for fear of denting the roof or doors. It felt like tin foil. Newer cars are made of stiffer and stringer metal now for safety regulations. They have a safety cell to protect the occupants in an accident. This all weighs in on the scales.
I heard that Firemen had to get newer stronger machinery to cut through the cars they find mangled with people trapped inside.
So even if you strip a car to a bare shell it will be heavier than a similar sized shell from 15 years ago.
So my earlier post now appears to be a little out of place. However perhaps my revival here can derail this thread into a discussion of renault 5's or firemen.I heard that Firemen had to get newer stronger machinery to cut through the cars they find mangled with people trapped inside.
So even if you strip a car to a bare shell it will be heavier than a similar sized shell from 15 years ago.
Hi,
All the weight is within the components and parts that are bolted/fixed to the car. Over the years, the M3 has gone from a small, relatively lightweight car to an executive/fun car and of course the demands placed by purchasers when the cars were new, meant they wanted all the extra bells and whistles and options and toys too. Weight of course would naturally increase. That said, newer materials and manufacturing processes means weight hasn't increased as much as it potentially could have, so although the later models all do actually weigh more even at bare shell level, their performance when seen as a completed car out of the factory meant they were still faster than the previous model(s).
To get really significant weight savings nowadays, a lot does need to come out of the car, and replacement items where required that are very lightweight are also relatively expensive. There's a good friend and enthusiast with an E46 M3 who junked the two from oem seats and put in Recaro Profi SPG bucket seats, each weighing I believe around 2.5KG each. The oem seats are around 35-40KG each I believe (disclaimer is I'm not 100% sure on those weights - perhaps regard it as a 90% or so weight saving!). Other elements would carbon fibre panels, roof pieces and interior door panels etc.
There's plenty more which could be stripped out of an E46 and indeed plenty of them are done that way and blast themselves around tracks etc very very well! for the most part though, E46 M3 owners who use them on the public roads will perhaps do 'some' weight savings if so inclined, else they just leave as is - the car is plenty quick enough even with all the options and toys included!
Cheers, Dennis!
All the weight is within the components and parts that are bolted/fixed to the car. Over the years, the M3 has gone from a small, relatively lightweight car to an executive/fun car and of course the demands placed by purchasers when the cars were new, meant they wanted all the extra bells and whistles and options and toys too. Weight of course would naturally increase. That said, newer materials and manufacturing processes means weight hasn't increased as much as it potentially could have, so although the later models all do actually weigh more even at bare shell level, their performance when seen as a completed car out of the factory meant they were still faster than the previous model(s).
To get really significant weight savings nowadays, a lot does need to come out of the car, and replacement items where required that are very lightweight are also relatively expensive. There's a good friend and enthusiast with an E46 M3 who junked the two from oem seats and put in Recaro Profi SPG bucket seats, each weighing I believe around 2.5KG each. The oem seats are around 35-40KG each I believe (disclaimer is I'm not 100% sure on those weights - perhaps regard it as a 90% or so weight saving!). Other elements would carbon fibre panels, roof pieces and interior door panels etc.
There's plenty more which could be stripped out of an E46 and indeed plenty of them are done that way and blast themselves around tracks etc very very well! for the most part though, E46 M3 owners who use them on the public roads will perhaps do 'some' weight savings if so inclined, else they just leave as is - the car is plenty quick enough even with all the options and toys included!
Cheers, Dennis!
I've seen plenty of different weights published for E36s. The standard cars are something like 1470Kg; the early EVOs and the GT were a bit less 1455-1460 due to having aluminium doors. The weight in handbook of my old E36 EVO was 1515Kg but I don't know if that included the driver or any fuel. My EVO had ally doors, Supersprint exhaust and Bilstein shocks which weighed less than standard; to offset these it had leather and rear spoiler. It weighed 1460Kg with exactly half a tank of fuel.
There was approx. 100Kg between the E36 and E46 in showroom spec and the difference is likely to be the same when fully stripped and caged. 1100-1150Kg for the E36 and 1200-1250Kg for the E46. imho of course.
There was approx. 100Kg between the E36 and E46 in showroom spec and the difference is likely to be the same when fully stripped and caged. 1100-1150Kg for the E36 and 1200-1250Kg for the E46. imho of course.
Edited by Crackie on Wednesday 27th November 14:30
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