Class A next year.
Discussion
Who's leaving? I know Dean, possibly Marc, Tony and Sam are leaving, but Sam's being replaced by Tim Davis, Marc may stay, Tony's car will I'm sure stay in with one driver or another and I'd hope Dean will get his car to someone who is going to race it as its quick and ready to go.
Then there are a few newbies I know of so I don't think the numbers will change much, possibly they may rise, we shall see!
Anyway, as for a list:
1) Nick Simpson (7) Hardtop Tuscan
Then there are a few newbies I know of so I don't think the numbers will change much, possibly they may rise, we shall see!
Anyway, as for a list:
1) Nick Simpson (7) Hardtop Tuscan
450Nick said:
Who's leaving? I know Dean, possibly Marc, Tony and Sam are leaving, but Sam's being replaced by Tim Davis, Marc may stay, Tony's car will I'm sure stay in with one driver or another and I'd hope Dean will get his car to someone who is going to race it as its quick and ready to go.
Then there are a few newbies I know of so I don't think the numbers will change much, possibly they may rise, we shall see!
Anyway, as for a list:
1) Nick Simpson (7) Hardtop Tuscan
Nick,Then there are a few newbies I know of so I don't think the numbers will change much, possibly they may rise, we shall see!
Anyway, as for a list:
1) Nick Simpson (7) Hardtop Tuscan
I would imagine the numbers depend to a great extent on it being a UK or even (god forbid) a European series beyond name tag that actually goes to the European mainland and it not being just a Southern UK series which it looks like it may well become....
Its quite usual to see a number of cars change hands at the end of a season... Some people move on to other hobbies, some move up the motorsports ladder to higher profile series, others find they have achieved what they want so call it a day..
There are only actually 2 drivers that go back to the early days of the tasmin series with myself and Kev starting in tasmins in 2001. Hugh is the only regular competitor from the Tuscan Challenge still giving it large.
You need new blood each year to keep things moving and to keep things fresh..
I cant see the series becoming a southern series, at least not if i have anything to do with it... we are limited in some respects to where BRSCC will run, which makes the barc circuits especially croft less likely...
Dont forget john is based a fair way north, although I suppose it does depend where you are starting from... as I said before I'd like to see maybe 2 fixed venues, and the rest rotating every year..
There are only actually 2 drivers that go back to the early days of the tasmin series with myself and Kev starting in tasmins in 2001. Hugh is the only regular competitor from the Tuscan Challenge still giving it large.
You need new blood each year to keep things moving and to keep things fresh..
I cant see the series becoming a southern series, at least not if i have anything to do with it... we are limited in some respects to where BRSCC will run, which makes the barc circuits especially croft less likely...
Dont forget john is based a fair way north, although I suppose it does depend where you are starting from... as I said before I'd like to see maybe 2 fixed venues, and the rest rotating every year..
I see the rumour season has started. Who said that Dean is leaving? If Mark Hockin goes elsewhere there is a rumour someone else from the West Country will run his car. If Tony Abrams doesen't come out there is someone else keen to buy his car and compete. The Sagaris bunch have gone but that is natural progression.
Deals are being done and I would say it looks reasonably healthy for next year.
As far as circuits are concerned, there is a wish I believe to up the profile to the bigger venues and the better promoted races. I think this would be better served by say 5 double headers which would concentrate everyones mind on getting to the races. I for one would try to do all 5 at decent venues similarly to this year. I am afraid I will not risk my car at Cadwell nice as the circuit is and while I would dearly love to race at Angelsey it is too far. I probably would go to Knockhill instead
As I am a northener by origin I would dearly love Croft to be included but we have difficulty in getting numbers to the northern circuits. Normally Oulton is not a problem but it has probably not escaped people that Castle Combe fairly decimated the grid.
My main gripe is that the rumours so often start from those who do not race in the championship. There are many who threaten to join the series but never seem to and if we concentrate a little bit more energy on getting everyone out for a compact championship at good venues this would be to everyones advantage.
Deals are being done and I would say it looks reasonably healthy for next year.
As far as circuits are concerned, there is a wish I believe to up the profile to the bigger venues and the better promoted races. I think this would be better served by say 5 double headers which would concentrate everyones mind on getting to the races. I for one would try to do all 5 at decent venues similarly to this year. I am afraid I will not risk my car at Cadwell nice as the circuit is and while I would dearly love to race at Angelsey it is too far. I probably would go to Knockhill instead
As I am a northener by origin I would dearly love Croft to be included but we have difficulty in getting numbers to the northern circuits. Normally Oulton is not a problem but it has probably not escaped people that Castle Combe fairly decimated the grid.
My main gripe is that the rumours so often start from those who do not race in the championship. There are many who threaten to join the series but never seem to and if we concentrate a little bit more energy on getting everyone out for a compact championship at good venues this would be to everyones advantage.
HUI said:
I am afraid I will not risk my car at Cadwell nice as the circuit is
You'll have to explain that one to me sometime :-) I've never understood the reservations over cadwell and the desire for castle coombe, a circuit which I consider more dangerous than cadwell, and where every accident is a big one due to the high speed of the circuit, and very limited run off. which the two accidents this year highlight.. And that comes from some whose crashed at the two highest speed parts of cadwell!!!I'll admit that the crowd at coombe is the best we ever see.
No agenda there im just genuinely interested.
Edited to say :- as for classes If things go to plan I'll have a car for a,b and c
Edited by Graham on Friday 23 October 20:01
HUI said:
Lots of good stuff
I too was worried by all the rumours I heard about who's leaving next year. It's the Tuscan Challenge silly season and I was thinking that all the growth of the previous couple of seasons was going to be undone at a stroke. After Oulton though I'm quite confident, it's true that certain people are leaving (or are they?) but a lot of new people are coming in.But Hugh speaks a lot of sense when he talks about people comitting to the series. For the last two years over thirty people have registered and/or scored points. If everyone did every round, think what the grids would be like. And success breeds success. So a series which makes every round accessible to as many drivers as possible makes a lot of sense.
profstoff said:
HUI said:
Lots of good stuff
I too was worried by all the rumours I heard about who's leaving next year. It's the Tuscan Challenge silly season and I was thinking that all the growth of the previous couple of seasons was going to be undone at a stroke. After Oulton though I'm quite confident, it's true that certain people are leaving (or are they?) but a lot of new people are coming in.But Hugh speaks a lot of sense when he talks about people comitting to the series. For the last two years over thirty people have registered and/or scored points. If everyone did every round, think what the grids would be like. And success breeds success. So a series which makes every round accessible to as many drivers as possible makes a lot of sense.
Sorry Hugh, I wasn't wishing to pedal rumours or anything. Just what I'd understood to be happening from talking to the drivers. I shall keep quiet and let it unfold! I do hope we see some nice big grids next year though, and it would be great to have some talented drivers to learn from and follow.
As has been said, we've had a lot of drivers registered and I think if we'd had a little better luck with crashes and failures, the grids would have been even more impressive. That said, the series is building, and I intend to do my bit to help it grow
I'm not too bothered about circuits, I'm from the South so obviously its easier for me to get to Southern circuits, but travelling to various corners of the country to get to the races is enjoyable for me... Its nice to see the countryside once in a while!
As has been said, we've had a lot of drivers registered and I think if we'd had a little better luck with crashes and failures, the grids would have been even more impressive. That said, the series is building, and I intend to do my bit to help it grow
I'm not too bothered about circuits, I'm from the South so obviously its easier for me to get to Southern circuits, but travelling to various corners of the country to get to the races is enjoyable for me... Its nice to see the countryside once in a while!
As a newcomer to the series who has had to try and learn the circuits from the back of the the grid without the luxury of Friday testing, I broadly welcome Graham's viewpoint, though my personal preference would be for 4 or 5 fixed circuits and only 2 or 3 changing each year. I would be disappointed not to race the likes of Cadwell, Castle Combe and Oulton again next year, all of which I found technically demanding but very rewarding!
My main gripe as an unsponsored driver paying over £300 per weekend in entry fees is that we do not have a drivers' forum to discuss our likes/dislikes and how to maximise entry to all 7 venues each year for the good of TVR racing. I am sure John Reid has a taxing time juggling dates, venues and wish lists with BRSCC each year, but it would be nice to have given him some drivers' input at the end of each season, rather than bat the subject around on a blog site.
I shall be there again next year in Gp B and, having done 6 venues this season, shall hope to compete in 4 or 5 next year, but I shall be selective and would caution against too many new venues.
Richard
My main gripe as an unsponsored driver paying over £300 per weekend in entry fees is that we do not have a drivers' forum to discuss our likes/dislikes and how to maximise entry to all 7 venues each year for the good of TVR racing. I am sure John Reid has a taxing time juggling dates, venues and wish lists with BRSCC each year, but it would be nice to have given him some drivers' input at the end of each season, rather than bat the subject around on a blog site.
I shall be there again next year in Gp B and, having done 6 venues this season, shall hope to compete in 4 or 5 next year, but I shall be selective and would caution against too many new venues.
Richard
HUI said:
Lots of stuff
Good post Hugh.As someone new to the series over the last few years, but also someone who will not contest the championship next year (well....maybe just do one or two rounds) I would like to add a little something, more by way of observations than moans. Incidently Hugh, I spoke breifly with Dean at Oulton about the sale of his car as I had considered a move to class A rather than a move away from the series - his car is for sale but not sure he knows what he wants to do next it does sell!
I think that 7 weekends this year made for an expensive season, and agree 100% that 5 good venues would be better for grids, I would however include Anglesey and Cadwell in those 5 - that's just my personal choice as both are excellent venues, that said I've enjoyed every circuit this year. If anyone wants more than those 10 races there are other series to race add-hoc.
I now know first hand contesting a 14 race championship were all rounds count weighs heavy on the bank balance and free time (even after taking out this years development costs).
I was dissapointed with the size of some of the grids this year and am sure the 14 race series was a major factor. I accept that we lost 3 cars at Coombe, but grids down from 22-23 to 12 after Coombe? - maybe the venue does play a huge part.
A little more on selecting the venues. I note some have suggested some circuits as ideal Tuscan circuits - fast and ballsey etc. However....this is no longer the Tuscan Challenge, it's the TVR challenge, there are three classes and althogh its difficult, maybe all should be considered. A ballsey Tuscan circuit is just less race time for class C cars and slower class B cars who aren`t just there to subsidise track time for Tuscans, but its a two edged sword I know
. Scheduling of the races within the weekend has caused some frustration, down to BRSCC? - I belive that's part of the problem, but does it end there?? The suggestion that the challenge races are last on the card to keep spectators at a venue is less than credible IMO - especially with only 8 or 9 cars lining up. It also leads to shortened races with limits on noise - something we experienced more than once this year.
Final point - communication. At times its been poor.
As challenge competitors I believe we should be advised directly by the series organisor or his appointed representative of any important changes during the year. Graham has advised those he knows to be registered of many ongoings during the year (some have not been included though), but not communicating up-front that TV coverage was being pulled at Anglesey was not so good.
Summary, big step forward care of very generous sponsorship this year. Could it have been a little more sucessful? dont know. A 14 race series was run in a very difficult year finacially for most - it still has its Championship status due to average grid size and the series still has lots going for it. With a little more polishing the series should continue to grow and attract new blood.
I enjoyed it and its a huge personal tick in a box of things to do before you're in a box.
Edited by TVR_owner on Saturday 24th October 06:31
teamHOLDENracing said:
John, isn't a 20 minute race 20 mins for everyone regardless of class?
Technicaly Andy, yes. My point was that after lap 5 or 6 in a class C car a good deal of time is spent having blue flags waved at you and necessarily checking mirrors for class A cars coming through. Tracks like Brands Indy it's a real pain (for both sets of drivers I'm sure), the longer tracks are less of an issue. But as a guide at mmost circuits, the lap time differential between fast class A and fast class C is between 12.5 and 15%. For me that's uncomfortable (and before you ask, yes I could go a bit quicker but not much
). Picking up Mal's point about full(ish) grids and 35 drivers in this year's championship, the drivers' plaque we were given at the dinner last Saturday lists 34, one of whom doesn't exist (Tom Hewitt)as I believe that was a mistake in the Cadwell Park programme for me! Two drivers only raced once - Cristina Totty and Dries Wilschut (for very different reasons) and only 13 drivers raced at more than 50% of the venues i.e. 4 of the 7 venues. Furthermore, only 8 drivers raced at 6 or more venues. The tail-off towards the end of the season, the last 2 venues was notable even allowing for the 2 cars taken out at CC.
The main deductions here are that:
Regular participation is low - 13 out of 31 drivers effectively.
The end of season tail-off should be examined, for explanations such as reluctance to travel to distant venues like Anglesey or venue/race fatigue - are 7 venues too many?
The main deductions here are that:
Regular participation is low - 13 out of 31 drivers effectively.
The end of season tail-off should be examined, for explanations such as reluctance to travel to distant venues like Anglesey or venue/race fatigue - are 7 venues too many?
I think that JR believes that 5 venues (10 races) is much more likely to have fuller grids. Outside of the Combe incident taking three then two out for the next two meets, there were other reliability/failures that led to drivers not running. Mallory effectively saw off Nick Record and Mike Saunders, we lost Keith at Combe as well as the gearbox issues meant he was unable to afford to repair the car with other things going on outdside of the racing. Tom wasnt ever going to do Anglesey and then missed Oulton for other reasons. Sam stated he wasnt going to cover a full season. He obviously had his reasons.
I think the newcomers will strengthen things next year but I agree that some of the stuff that happened to you guys may have been repaired if the budget wasnt stretched so much. I know the fuel cost and hotel costs have been high for George and myself to follow you around so I know it is REALLY costly for you drivers.
I know that Oulton and Combe were very well supported by the TVR tiffosi so maybe that is were the thinking should go, if I were a sponsor I know I would want maximum exposure, that means good crowds, TV coverage etc. I would guess that inviting a sponsor along to an empty circuit would be a big downer.
Maybe we should also be trying to raise the profile by marketing the whole thing more. The TVR Car club and PistonHeads are effectively free but could/should we be doing more.
I think the newcomers will strengthen things next year but I agree that some of the stuff that happened to you guys may have been repaired if the budget wasnt stretched so much. I know the fuel cost and hotel costs have been high for George and myself to follow you around so I know it is REALLY costly for you drivers.
I know that Oulton and Combe were very well supported by the TVR tiffosi so maybe that is were the thinking should go, if I were a sponsor I know I would want maximum exposure, that means good crowds, TV coverage etc. I would guess that inviting a sponsor along to an empty circuit would be a big downer.
Maybe we should also be trying to raise the profile by marketing the whole thing more. The TVR Car club and PistonHeads are effectively free but could/should we be doing more.
Further to whats been said,
Fewer events means...
Just MHO
Andy
Fewer events means...
- LESS value for money (the more track time, the better the value as many costs are fixed over the year)
- LESS chance of Damage
- LESS chance of fatigue (Driver, car, budget)
- MORE Time to fix the car! Several events over the last 2 years have been within 2 weeks of each other. The likes of Tony and Deano had a tough time getting out for the next round after Cadwell and I had to have my engine rebuilt between Anglesey and Oulton. (thanks Dulfords...JE couldn't do it)
- MORE Time to pay for it. Two weeks means its unlikely to get another pay packet before the next round!
Just MHO
Andy
I'm hoping to run the T350 in class A next year if a few things come together over the coming weeks. There does appear to be an exodus from class B at the moment but class A should be great fun.
My running was limited this year, initially due to some engine problems which took a while to get to the bottom of, then a sheared main shaft in the gearbox at Anglesey then......... well lets forget last season!
ceejay
My running was limited this year, initially due to some engine problems which took a while to get to the bottom of, then a sheared main shaft in the gearbox at Anglesey then......... well lets forget last season!
ceejay
Some interesting comment.
I am all for 5 rounds with 2 races at each. Any more and we start to stretch budgets and reduce numbers at each round. The problem is that to maintain a championship we need to maintain numbers over the whole season and I am guilty of not doing all as my budget and work agenda do not allow me to. If people wish to do more races there are other Championships in which the cars can be run but I would like to see the current Championship grow into a well supported compact one that continues to attract new entries.
In regard to circuits my reasons for not wanting to race at Cadwell go back to the days when you were not allowed to run cars over 2 litres at the track because it was considered dangerous and the fact that TVR abandoned the circuit after a huge accident. It is a super little track but it is very narrow and between the mountain and the main straight it is impossible to overtake meaning that in class racing cars can get a huge advantage. The mountain wrecks gearboxes and differentials if you attack it. It is probably brilliant in a C Class car but not in an A Class one. I believe Angelsey is excellent but cost and time in getting there make it difficult for some of us.
The forum for drivers should have come through the website that Owen O'Neill set up but sadly this didn't work as we all hoped.
I think that the feeling at the end of term party was positive and I really think that it is about people getting out there and committing to the championship. As always, dates will not be announced for some time by the BRSCC but I agree that it would be best to have reasonable gaps between rounds to give all a chance to fix problems. John Reid seemed quite positive about the potential Calendar for next year.
I am all for 5 rounds with 2 races at each. Any more and we start to stretch budgets and reduce numbers at each round. The problem is that to maintain a championship we need to maintain numbers over the whole season and I am guilty of not doing all as my budget and work agenda do not allow me to. If people wish to do more races there are other Championships in which the cars can be run but I would like to see the current Championship grow into a well supported compact one that continues to attract new entries.
In regard to circuits my reasons for not wanting to race at Cadwell go back to the days when you were not allowed to run cars over 2 litres at the track because it was considered dangerous and the fact that TVR abandoned the circuit after a huge accident. It is a super little track but it is very narrow and between the mountain and the main straight it is impossible to overtake meaning that in class racing cars can get a huge advantage. The mountain wrecks gearboxes and differentials if you attack it. It is probably brilliant in a C Class car but not in an A Class one. I believe Angelsey is excellent but cost and time in getting there make it difficult for some of us.
The forum for drivers should have come through the website that Owen O'Neill set up but sadly this didn't work as we all hoped.
I think that the feeling at the end of term party was positive and I really think that it is about people getting out there and committing to the championship. As always, dates will not be announced for some time by the BRSCC but I agree that it would be best to have reasonable gaps between rounds to give all a chance to fix problems. John Reid seemed quite positive about the potential Calendar for next year.
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff