Trust Inheritance and will writing
Discussion
Anyone here had any experience of Trust Inheritance?
Briefly, I had a visit from them this evening with a view to writing a will for £59.00. They took all the details, but then started the hard sell of a Personal Estate Plan, whereby you pay a one-off fee of £2500, and they undertake to act as advisers to the executors of your will, as well as one or two other benefits. They trot out figures of how much the service would cost using solicitors, and the price seems OK, but I'm a natural sceptic. Anyone else had any dealings?
Briefly, I had a visit from them this evening with a view to writing a will for £59.00. They took all the details, but then started the hard sell of a Personal Estate Plan, whereby you pay a one-off fee of £2500, and they undertake to act as advisers to the executors of your will, as well as one or two other benefits. They trot out figures of how much the service would cost using solicitors, and the price seems OK, but I'm a natural sceptic. Anyone else had any dealings?
I have no experience of Trust Inheritance, but I am at present obtaining advice on both legal, tax advice for the writing of Wills, Trusts and Power of Attorney etc. etc. Listed below are the charges I have been quoted, with all prices being plus VAT
Wills
Pair of Simple Wills - £400 plus VAT
Pair of Asset Protection Wills (containing IPDI trusts) - £1,000 plus VAT
Pair of Asset Protection Wills with up to three lifetime pilot trusts each - £2,500 plus VAT
Additional trusts charged at £150 plus VAT per pair
Trusts and Out of Income GiPair of Resolutions - £100 plus VAT
Pair of Resolutions and Trusts - £800 plus VAT
Lasting Powers of Attorney
Pair of Property and Affairs LPAs or Health and Welfare LPAs - £600 plus VAT
With Registration £900
With Certificate Provision £900
With Registration and Certificate Provision £1,000
Pair of Property and Affairs LPAs and Health and Welfare LPAs - £1,000
With Registration £1,500
With Certificate Provision £1,500
With Registration and Certificate Provision £1,800
Wills
Pair of Simple Wills - £400 plus VAT
Pair of Asset Protection Wills (containing IPDI trusts) - £1,000 plus VAT
Pair of Asset Protection Wills with up to three lifetime pilot trusts each - £2,500 plus VAT
Additional trusts charged at £150 plus VAT per pair
Trusts and Out of Income GiPair of Resolutions - £100 plus VAT
Pair of Resolutions and Trusts - £800 plus VAT
Lasting Powers of Attorney
Pair of Property and Affairs LPAs or Health and Welfare LPAs - £600 plus VAT
With Registration £900
With Certificate Provision £900
With Registration and Certificate Provision £1,000
Pair of Property and Affairs LPAs and Health and Welfare LPAs - £1,000
With Registration £1,500
With Certificate Provision £1,500
With Registration and Certificate Provision £1,800
Does anyone have any experience of dealing with trusts?
Some years ago we put the MILs house into a trust because she wasn't looking after it and had no financal sense at all. DIY was never her thing and her late husband was very much in the bodge and make do camp. She had taken out a loan for repairs at a horrific rate of interest. As a result of this, and the pile of jobs that needed doing, we put her home into a trust to stop her doing something stupid.
At the time we asked one of her carers if she was likely to stay in the house and they said that there was no reason that she shouldn't spend many more years there with a little help.
Since then her mental health has deteriorated and she may need to go into a care home.
A quick trawl of the internet reveals plenty of solicitors offering to protect the home from care fees and plenty of social services sites emphasising how you must pay regardless. However I can't find any actual account of real experiences with this issue.
Do we sell the house?
Rent it out?
If either of these do we pay as anyone else does or is it different for trusts?
The trust rules state that it has to be for her benefit. It's hard to see how paying for the same care that everyone else gets for free gives her any benefit at all.
Real experiences of doing this please!
Some years ago we put the MILs house into a trust because she wasn't looking after it and had no financal sense at all. DIY was never her thing and her late husband was very much in the bodge and make do camp. She had taken out a loan for repairs at a horrific rate of interest. As a result of this, and the pile of jobs that needed doing, we put her home into a trust to stop her doing something stupid.
At the time we asked one of her carers if she was likely to stay in the house and they said that there was no reason that she shouldn't spend many more years there with a little help.
Since then her mental health has deteriorated and she may need to go into a care home.
A quick trawl of the internet reveals plenty of solicitors offering to protect the home from care fees and plenty of social services sites emphasising how you must pay regardless. However I can't find any actual account of real experiences with this issue.
Do we sell the house?
Rent it out?
If either of these do we pay as anyone else does or is it different for trusts?
The trust rules state that it has to be for her benefit. It's hard to see how paying for the same care that everyone else gets for free gives her any benefit at all.
Real experiences of doing this please!
Go to a couple of your local solicitors and ask, there will be no fee for asking. Try to choose ones who've been a round for years and years. Oddly enough, they're usually trustworthy. (No, I'm not a solicitor!)
I think I paid around £250 five years ago for a couple of wills, although if it's simple you can do it with a kit from WH Smiths for £20.
Enduring Power of Attorney was around 10 years ago, cost a similar amount of money.
But the mere fact someone's been trying the 'hard sell' means they are probably not the right people for you.
Wings, those prices seem inflated. Shop around.
Cymtriks, if MIL signed the house over to children more than 7 years ago, then it's no longer her house, and her care should be paid by the state. I don't know about the legal issues of trusts though, find a local family-type solicitors, not some internet company, and they'll be able to advise. Who set the trust up for you, can't they answer the question?
I think I paid around £250 five years ago for a couple of wills, although if it's simple you can do it with a kit from WH Smiths for £20.
Enduring Power of Attorney was around 10 years ago, cost a similar amount of money.
But the mere fact someone's been trying the 'hard sell' means they are probably not the right people for you.
Wings, those prices seem inflated. Shop around.
Cymtriks, if MIL signed the house over to children more than 7 years ago, then it's no longer her house, and her care should be paid by the state. I don't know about the legal issues of trusts though, find a local family-type solicitors, not some internet company, and they'll be able to advise. Who set the trust up for you, can't they answer the question?
-Pete- said:
Go to a couple of your local solicitors and ask, there will be no fee for asking. Try to choose ones who've been a round for years and years. Oddly enough, they're usually trustworthy. (No, I'm not a solicitor!)
I think I paid around £250 five years ago for a couple of wills, although if it's simple you can do it with a kit from WH Smiths for £20.
Enduring Power of Attorney was around 10 years ago, cost a similar amount of money.
But the mere fact someone's been trying the 'hard sell' means they are probably not the right people for you.
Wings, those prices seem inflated. Shop around.
Cymtriks, if MIL signed the house over to children more than 7 years ago, then it's no longer her house, and her care should be paid by the state. I don't know about the legal issues of trusts though, find a local family-type solicitors, not some internet company, and they'll be able to advise. Who set the trust up for you, can't they answer the question?
Thanks for that. They're drafting the will for £59, but were pushing the estate management deal for £2500. I reckon the will writing is a kind of loss leader to get them in the door. On the surface, it looks like a decent deal, but I have concerns that they may not be around when needed. They claim to be a member of the Professional Association of Legal Services, whereby if a member goes bust, other members will take over the case. However, the website is minimal, I think I paid around £250 five years ago for a couple of wills, although if it's simple you can do it with a kit from WH Smiths for £20.
Enduring Power of Attorney was around 10 years ago, cost a similar amount of money.
But the mere fact someone's been trying the 'hard sell' means they are probably not the right people for you.
Wings, those prices seem inflated. Shop around.
Cymtriks, if MIL signed the house over to children more than 7 years ago, then it's no longer her house, and her care should be paid by the state. I don't know about the legal issues of trusts though, find a local family-type solicitors, not some internet company, and they'll be able to advise. Who set the trust up for you, can't they answer the question?
http://www.thepals.org.uk/
and the only mention of them on the web is their website. Allied to the fact that TI are the founding member, it doesn't look good. A GoogleMap of their address shows it to be run from a housing estate. Bells are ringing.....
I have just set up a deal for the Chair of the UK Will Writers Association to come and do a presentation to my local British Chamber of Commerce.
They are the people to look to for this and I would want someone I used to be an affiliate of this group.
Be aware that there are changes going through the European Parliament at the moment with respect to wills.
There is no indication at present how far ranging the changes will be.
The fees this guy is charging to set up expat wills - which are inherently more complex than a single UK based Will is in the order of €150 -€250 depending on the complexity.
It is a loss leader - the real returns for Will Writers is in the IHT planning stage.
However, a good one will save your estate much more than he cost you.
Pays your money, and all that.
They are the people to look to for this and I would want someone I used to be an affiliate of this group.
Be aware that there are changes going through the European Parliament at the moment with respect to wills.
There is no indication at present how far ranging the changes will be.
The fees this guy is charging to set up expat wills - which are inherently more complex than a single UK based Will is in the order of €150 -€250 depending on the complexity.
It is a loss leader - the real returns for Will Writers is in the IHT planning stage.
However, a good one will save your estate much more than he cost you.
Pays your money, and all that.
To answer a few of these points:
£2500 to "advise the executors"...have your executors heard of Google! Unless the Will/estate is complex it many be as easy a job as calling a few help lines and sorting yourself. Even if it does ge complex and you need a few hours of a solicitors time its not likely to cost that much...and if it gets REALLY complex can these people help anyway? I'd say, pay your £60 and leave it at that.
The prob for Will writers is that 99% of their IHT work has gone out the window....no one ever made money on Wills - it was on the trust packaged with them to help with IHT planning. So Will writers now either charge a lot to try and make some back on the basic Will (which you can for £10 at Smiths) or they still try and hard sell "extras" Personal, we just gave up on selling Wills and now just do them for free for clients and their families (we provide other IHT based financial services as our core business, trust funds etc)
Dont forget...you dont need much in the way of qualifications to be a "will writer" and getting affiliated to organisations in not all that hard.
Bottom line...if you have simple needs and want a "normal" Will i'd expect to pay upto £100 for a pair.
£2500 to "advise the executors"...have your executors heard of Google! Unless the Will/estate is complex it many be as easy a job as calling a few help lines and sorting yourself. Even if it does ge complex and you need a few hours of a solicitors time its not likely to cost that much...and if it gets REALLY complex can these people help anyway? I'd say, pay your £60 and leave it at that.
The prob for Will writers is that 99% of their IHT work has gone out the window....no one ever made money on Wills - it was on the trust packaged with them to help with IHT planning. So Will writers now either charge a lot to try and make some back on the basic Will (which you can for £10 at Smiths) or they still try and hard sell "extras" Personal, we just gave up on selling Wills and now just do them for free for clients and their families (we provide other IHT based financial services as our core business, trust funds etc)
Dont forget...you dont need much in the way of qualifications to be a "will writer" and getting affiliated to organisations in not all that hard.
Bottom line...if you have simple needs and want a "normal" Will i'd expect to pay upto £100 for a pair.
AdeTuono said:
Anyone here had any experience of Trust Inheritance?
Briefly, I had a visit from them this evening with a view to writing a will for £59.00. They took all the details, but then started the hard sell of a Personal Estate Plan, whereby you pay a one-off fee of £2500, and they undertake to act as advisers to the executors of your will, as well as one or two other benefits. They trot out figures of how much the service would cost using solicitors, and the price seems OK, but I'm a natural sceptic. Anyone else had any dealings?
For small estates up to around £600,000 I have seen legal costs around £2,000 to do everything neccessary to get probate. Paying in advance seems more of a gamble as how sure can you be that they will be in existence to provide the advice when needed?Briefly, I had a visit from them this evening with a view to writing a will for £59.00. They took all the details, but then started the hard sell of a Personal Estate Plan, whereby you pay a one-off fee of £2500, and they undertake to act as advisers to the executors of your will, as well as one or two other benefits. They trot out figures of how much the service would cost using solicitors, and the price seems OK, but I'm a natural sceptic. Anyone else had any dealings?
Hi, Guys.
Yes, I've had experience of Trust Inheritance Ltd (TIL). As a customer. I understand the concerns expressed. Yet it seems that most responses deal with alternative service providers rather than answering the question. So, here goes:
As best as I understand it, TIL offers a will writing service at £59. So do other will writers (£49, £79, et al). Solicitors can and do charge hundreds for a will . When I first saw this I was reminded of my mobile phone or Sky TV system. You can have an Izzy Whizzy phone worth hundreds of pounds for FREE IF you sign up for a twelve/24 month contract. Same with SKY TV get a decoder for free, sign up for 12 months. No contract, no free phone/sky decoder. The difference with TIL is: Get a discounted will but you don't have to sign up for the big service, the Personal Estate Plan (PEP).
So what does TIL do? You get a visit from a trained adviser who can answer any questions you may have. Free advice on Trusts, Inheritance tax, intestacy, executors, probate, guardians, property overseas etc, etc. If all you want is the will, then all you need to take is the will. No pressure.
So, what about the PEP? Well there is the free Lifetime storage of your will(s). Compare that to the cost of storage at the banks. Or a safety deposit box. Then there are the Free updates. Each update /rewrite without a PEP would cost the same as the original will. And a 10% discount on any funeral because of their connection to a major group of funeral directors. But the most significant part of what the PEP can do is to provide professional legal help at the time of any and every death. And as best as I understand, you can call on this help and support as many times as needed. The example I was given was:
When my mother died.
When my wife's mother died.
When my father died.
When my wife's father died.
When my wife dies
When I die.
The offer was: You (or your kids) be the executor. Don't pay for a solicitor. Ever. And use this service as many times as you want.
So, why was it so attractive? Well, as a trained bereavement counsellor I know what many people go through when someone close to you dies. I know that sorting someone's estate can be complex. I know it can take months. If you are the executor the options are:
Spend time finding out what to do. Do what you can. Maybe get it wrong. Or right.
Hand it to a solicitor who may not be able to tell you the final costs (2 to 3 to 6% of the estate) each time.
or £hundreds per hour.
Use Trust inheritance who will guide you through the process at no cost. Every time.
Yes, they trot out the cost of using solicitors. From a report published in the Times Newspaper in Aug 2002. Still available on the Times.com archive. You may have to dig and there will be a cost but the report is there. And some of the banks' charges have gone up. RBOS now charge £17K compared to £11k quoted. If I remember correctly there was Barclays, Lloyds, Nat West & HSBC at 3.5% to 5% Coutts and some solicitors whose names I can't remember. Typically, for an estate of £500,000 the costs were between 3% & 5% or £7.5K to £15K.
So, Husband dies, pay £7k to £15K. wife dies. Pay the same. Use TIL. Get their solicitors. Pay nothing. Every time. IF you choose to use TIL, they will offer their services as executors but with a 50% discount on their standard cost AND a written guarentee to beat any written quote at the time of any death.
OK, there is the up front cost of £2,500 but to my mind it was a no-brainer.
Pete said, "use someone whose been around for years." What's the minimum? And will there be any guarantee that they will be there next year? TIL's been around for 20. You make reference to the Professional Association of Legal Services (PALS) which has about 1000+ members http://www.thepals.org.uk/ It seems that the deal is, if any member goes out of business any one of the others is under contract to support the original service at no extra cost to the client. So what if TIL set it up? At least you have the peace of mind of long time security. And a thousand other solicitors/will writers happy to step in.
You also make reference to GoogleMap. Post codes can typically cover between four and a hundred addresses. Use googlemap streetview and look at the south west corner of Stafford Street and Boulevard. Looks like a business address to me. It's got a big car park.
rlw said: "cheque (sic) their insurance." I was told that it's £5M for each consultant and the Company. Apart from anything else, I was told that they are a Trust Corporation. As licensed by the Secretary of State for the Dept of Trade & Industry. You have to do some pretty heavy legit stuff to get a license like that.
So, what's my interest? Call me a satisfied customer who did his due diligence. But apart from anything else, check them out at Companies House. The Government website for all legit businesses in the UK.
Arum Maculatum
Yes, I've had experience of Trust Inheritance Ltd (TIL). As a customer. I understand the concerns expressed. Yet it seems that most responses deal with alternative service providers rather than answering the question. So, here goes:
As best as I understand it, TIL offers a will writing service at £59. So do other will writers (£49, £79, et al). Solicitors can and do charge hundreds for a will . When I first saw this I was reminded of my mobile phone or Sky TV system. You can have an Izzy Whizzy phone worth hundreds of pounds for FREE IF you sign up for a twelve/24 month contract. Same with SKY TV get a decoder for free, sign up for 12 months. No contract, no free phone/sky decoder. The difference with TIL is: Get a discounted will but you don't have to sign up for the big service, the Personal Estate Plan (PEP).
So what does TIL do? You get a visit from a trained adviser who can answer any questions you may have. Free advice on Trusts, Inheritance tax, intestacy, executors, probate, guardians, property overseas etc, etc. If all you want is the will, then all you need to take is the will. No pressure.
So, what about the PEP? Well there is the free Lifetime storage of your will(s). Compare that to the cost of storage at the banks. Or a safety deposit box. Then there are the Free updates. Each update /rewrite without a PEP would cost the same as the original will. And a 10% discount on any funeral because of their connection to a major group of funeral directors. But the most significant part of what the PEP can do is to provide professional legal help at the time of any and every death. And as best as I understand, you can call on this help and support as many times as needed. The example I was given was:
When my mother died.
When my wife's mother died.
When my father died.
When my wife's father died.
When my wife dies
When I die.
The offer was: You (or your kids) be the executor. Don't pay for a solicitor. Ever. And use this service as many times as you want.
So, why was it so attractive? Well, as a trained bereavement counsellor I know what many people go through when someone close to you dies. I know that sorting someone's estate can be complex. I know it can take months. If you are the executor the options are:
Spend time finding out what to do. Do what you can. Maybe get it wrong. Or right.
Hand it to a solicitor who may not be able to tell you the final costs (2 to 3 to 6% of the estate) each time.
or £hundreds per hour.
Use Trust inheritance who will guide you through the process at no cost. Every time.
Yes, they trot out the cost of using solicitors. From a report published in the Times Newspaper in Aug 2002. Still available on the Times.com archive. You may have to dig and there will be a cost but the report is there. And some of the banks' charges have gone up. RBOS now charge £17K compared to £11k quoted. If I remember correctly there was Barclays, Lloyds, Nat West & HSBC at 3.5% to 5% Coutts and some solicitors whose names I can't remember. Typically, for an estate of £500,000 the costs were between 3% & 5% or £7.5K to £15K.
So, Husband dies, pay £7k to £15K. wife dies. Pay the same. Use TIL. Get their solicitors. Pay nothing. Every time. IF you choose to use TIL, they will offer their services as executors but with a 50% discount on their standard cost AND a written guarentee to beat any written quote at the time of any death.
OK, there is the up front cost of £2,500 but to my mind it was a no-brainer.
Pete said, "use someone whose been around for years." What's the minimum? And will there be any guarantee that they will be there next year? TIL's been around for 20. You make reference to the Professional Association of Legal Services (PALS) which has about 1000+ members http://www.thepals.org.uk/ It seems that the deal is, if any member goes out of business any one of the others is under contract to support the original service at no extra cost to the client. So what if TIL set it up? At least you have the peace of mind of long time security. And a thousand other solicitors/will writers happy to step in.
You also make reference to GoogleMap. Post codes can typically cover between four and a hundred addresses. Use googlemap streetview and look at the south west corner of Stafford Street and Boulevard. Looks like a business address to me. It's got a big car park.
rlw said: "cheque (sic) their insurance." I was told that it's £5M for each consultant and the Company. Apart from anything else, I was told that they are a Trust Corporation. As licensed by the Secretary of State for the Dept of Trade & Industry. You have to do some pretty heavy legit stuff to get a license like that.
So, what's my interest? Call me a satisfied customer who did his due diligence. But apart from anything else, check them out at Companies House. The Government website for all legit businesses in the UK.
Arum Maculatum
We've had a question. There were unrelated replies and a response from a satisfied customer. It seems that the only entry challenged is from a satisfied customer. What a sad world we live in where the cynical hold sway. Yes I am a customer. Yes I did my due diligence. Yes I am satisfied.
DaveMac250, Here's a suggestion:
If you want to know what it's like to go swimming, step into the water. But please don't criticise from the side of the pool. Here's another suggestion: It will cost only a couple of hours of your time to invite Trust Inheritance to your home, see what they do. Then send them home.
DaveMac250, Here's a suggestion:
If you want to know what it's like to go swimming, step into the water. But please don't criticise from the side of the pool. Here's another suggestion: It will cost only a couple of hours of your time to invite Trust Inheritance to your home, see what they do. Then send them home.
Arum Maculatum said:
Everything the TI rep said...
My point was more, 'Will they be there in 20/30/40 years when you need their services?'. They don't have a good record, having changed their company name 2-3 times in the last few years. And the PALS link rang a few bells as well. As I said in my earlier post, there is no mention of them on the web anywhere other than in association with TI, who, it appears, actually founded them. And that is where the Google Map comment refers to; it's a house on a housing estate. For a company purporting to be a Professional Association of Legal Services, I'd expect a little more. Not much point in promising a guaranteed service in no other companiers are part of it, IMO.Will they be there in 20/30/40 years? Don't know. I was told that PALs was founded in 2001-2002 with the sole purpose of providing a safety net for clients of the more than 1,000 members. I asked for and I'm still waiting for the list. I was told that in their 19 years (1990-2009) Trust Inheritance had written over 600,000 wills. And about half of their clients have some level of service from them. So. Think about it. If TI currently hold 150,000 wills with a guarentee to provide a service, what would happen if they folded? If PALs exists and does what it's supposed to do, there are more than a thousand members under contract to provide whatever service the original company had put in place. Is it possible that some of the 1,000 members would be happy to act as executors for clients they had never seen? Looks like easy money to me.
I don't understand why changes of name are a problem. When I asked, I was told that it was because the company had changed. When they started, they stored wills (the will vault Co.) When they were licensed by the Secretary of State for Dept of Trade & Industry, they became Trust Inheritance to reflect what they do now.
I was told that their Professional indemnity insurance is £5M. Have not seen the certificate of insurance. Phone the HQ. I take your point about PALS address being in a residential area. I can't answer that. Write to PALS. See what you get.
And, finally. Yes I am a paying customer. After I had seen the whole sales pitch, I asked a solicitor friend. (He does immigration). When he heard that I could get free professional help 6 or 7 times over. And not have to pay 1%,3%,or 6% each time to a bank or solicitor, he said 2 words: 'Take it.' I bought it after seeking advice from a solicitor.
o
I don't understand why changes of name are a problem. When I asked, I was told that it was because the company had changed. When they started, they stored wills (the will vault Co.) When they were licensed by the Secretary of State for Dept of Trade & Industry, they became Trust Inheritance to reflect what they do now.
I was told that their Professional indemnity insurance is £5M. Have not seen the certificate of insurance. Phone the HQ. I take your point about PALS address being in a residential area. I can't answer that. Write to PALS. See what you get.
And, finally. Yes I am a paying customer. After I had seen the whole sales pitch, I asked a solicitor friend. (He does immigration). When he heard that I could get free professional help 6 or 7 times over. And not have to pay 1%,3%,or 6% each time to a bank or solicitor, he said 2 words: 'Take it.' I bought it after seeking advice from a solicitor.
o
Arum Maculatum said:
I was told that PALs was founded in 2001-2002 with the sole purpose of providing a safety net for clients of the more than 1,000 members. I asked for and I'm still waiting for the list
Which tells you?Arum Maculatum said:
Is it possible that some of the 1,000 members would be happy to act as executors for clients they had never seen? Looks like easy money to me.
How? They'll be providing help free of charge.Arum Maculatum said:
I was told that their Professional indemnity insurance is £5M. Have not seen the certificate of insurance.
Anyone can hold £5m indemnity insurance. It costs peanuts.Arum Maculatum said:
After I had seen the whole sales pitch, I asked a solicitor friend. (He does immigration). When he heard that I could get free professional help 6 or 7 times over. And not have to pay 1%,3%,or 6% each time to a bank or solicitor, he said 2 words: 'Take it.' I bought it after seeking advice from a solicitor.
Yes, an immigration solicitor.Gassing Station | Finance | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff