Clutch Ache

[adam quantrill]

Well I'm still soldiering on with a slippy clutch on the 400SX but I feel it's not long for this world.

My options seem to be:

a) replace with a standard clutch & pressure plate
b) get an uprated clutch - same diameter - maybe with a better compound
c) get a flywheel drilled for a 10.5" clutch
d) get a lightened flywheel which will accept a 10.5" clutch

Options c) and d) also require some changes to the clutch release lever. Options a) and b) have the advantage of ease and speed of installation, and are much cheaper!!

I had a feel of Rev's 10.5 inch clutch at BBWF and it didn't seem that stiff, so I could live with that. Certainly no harder than a standard clutch. [Insert phnarrs as appropriate...]

So I'm undecided really, should I get another 9.5" but run the risk of slipping in another 20k miles time? My driving history is that I'm quite easy on clutches, in my experience it's gearboxes that seem to go!

[rev-erend]

Sounds like a std 5 ltr clutch is what you need.. based on the above.

But if it only lasts 10K then you will have to go for the second option..

How much torque do you have ?

[adam quantrill]

The torque is supposed to be 340 lbf - very 'ish' though, and add a few pinches of salt.

What's a '5-litre' clutch plate, and how does it differ from a standard (3.5l ?), and who supplies them?

Are the '5-litre' rated ones available with LT77 splines, or just T5?

Edited by adam quantrill on Wednesday 30th April 13:55

[rev-erend]

Yes - they made the 5 litre griff with the LT77 in the first few years.

Most 5 litre griffs clutches seem to cope with 300 ft lbs easily enough (280 is normal figure) mapped with a few mods seems to made 300.

[L33]

another vote for a 5 litre griff clutch.
Changed mine just before I sold the wedge - made the world of difference.

Got it from "techniclutch" (who I am told supply TVR Car parts).

Price was about £110 but included one of the plastic release bearings (which I sent back for £10 refund). Better off with a steel release bearing for about £30.

[rev-erend]

Do a search on Fleabay for 'TVR Clutch' ..

There are Tecni clutch .. for a very reasonable price

PArtsrange (RPI) for about 145 and they also have a AP 9.5 that they use on their 5.5 engines for a whooping £380.. and as has been mentioned the metal bearing carrier and old style bearing are more robust that the modern plastic bearing.

[adam quantrill]

I just had a nice chat with the guys at Tvrcarparts.

Apparently the 500 clutch probably has stronger springs on the cover plate, and has a different compound on the clutch plate, but visually they look fairly similar.

In the old days, V8 wedges were originally only supplied with one clutch type from the factory, so the larger cars probably ate clutches for dinner.

Thanks for the tips!

BTW Lee, did the techniclutch one fit in as a straight bolt-in - no dowel removement etc?

And do they have a stock code for this clutch kit that I can quote? Just to make sure I get the right one - I have seen some horror stories about their customer services when things go wrong ;^)

Edited by adam quantrill on Wednesday 30th April 15:50

[shpub]

adam quantrill said:

The torque is supposed to be 340 lbf - very 'ish' though, and add a few pinches of salt.

What's a '5-litre' clutch plate, and how does it differ from a standard (3.5l ?), and who supplies them?

Are the '5-litre' rated ones available with LT77 splines, or just T5?

Edited by adam quantrill on Wednesday 30th April 13:55

3.5 litre clutches are made out of plasticene or play dough... I can never remember which. The 5 litre clutch should be Ok and there are uprated versions of that - John Eales supplied me for the Purple Shed pre supercharger and they were fine. Beyond that it is sintered multiplates as the organic single plates are simply not up to the job. Haven't found any including in the US that are really upto it IMHO. That includes McCleods and all the others. Currently using a 700lb ft AP triple plate sintered ceramic.

Worth changing the release arm though while you are at it. I have bent them before now which makes gear changes a tad difficult. Stuck it in 5th and drove like an auto to get home!

[rev-erend]

Well it's no surprise your supercharged beast cannot use a single plate clutch .. but multi plate clutches have a short lifespan - as all S6 engined owners will testify.

20K miles is a real result.

Anyway - Steve mentioned changing the arm and I've seen them punch thru too .. heres a modified item.. apologies for the dodgy welding but hopefully the welder will own up

[grahamw48]

My 400SE's clutch is slipping too (after only about 3,000 miles). Don't know what the last owner did with it, but I've always had them last a hell of a long time. Possibly the rear oil seal has gone, as it's okay until the engine is properly warmed up.

Anyway, it's booked in with Richard Thorpe early May, and a 500 Griff type being fitted.

Torque may be slightly higher, as 218/220 combo cam also fitted at the same time as the present clutch.

I do suspect leaking oil seal though.

[adam quantrill]

Mine started like that too, but has got progressively worse.

An oil seal leak will be onto the front face of the flywheel - away from the clutch. The first sign will be oil dripping out of the little hole where the clutch slave cylinder goes.

[grahamw48]

There is a tiny bit of oil dripping from that area of the transmission.

I believe any leakage can still find its way though to the clutch plate.

I'd be shocked at a clutch lasting so short a time through wear alone, even driven enthusiastically.

- Will find out next week.

[adam quantrill]

If you think you've got an oil leak my top tip is to make sure all the engine breathing is working well, to reduce crankcase pressure.

[grahamw48]

Good point - will do.

[shpub]

rev-erend said:

Well it's no surprise your supercharged beast cannot use a single plate clutch .. but multi plate clutches have a short lifespan - as all S6 engined owners will testify.

I switched before well before the blower was fitted. Got fed up with single plates dying with only 400 bhp.
The life span on a multiplate is about the same as a single plate - even longer as the in my experience. Had 4 Cerbera multiplate clutches all reach 40k miles. Setup is absolutely essential though.

[gsx600]

rev-erend said:

Well it's no surprise your supercharged beast cannot use a single plate clutch .. but multi plate clutches have a short lifespan - as all S6 engined owners will testify.

20K miles is a real result.

Anyway - Steve mentioned changing the arm and I've seen them punch thru too .. heres a modified item.. apologies for the dodgy welding but hopefully the welder will own up

first glance at that picture was some sort of pig iron from a foundry

then saw it was a car part

Looks like something even my welding skills could cook up

[adam quantrill]

So I'm looking at getting a 5.0l clutch, but at the moment I don't know how to identify one when I see it.

Some research seems to indicate that Range Rover clutches have evolved over time from the old 3.5l ones.

However it's hard to tell what will fit - application data seems to be very hard to come by - the crucial measurements being the spline and the overall diameter.

So the alternatives seem to be:

1. Techniclutch 5.0l - according to Lee this is a Borg and Beck clutch. 9.5" dia.

2. TVRCarparts 5.0l clutch - rumoured to be Techniparts - also 9.5" dia. Mates with LT77 and T5 (yeah, right...) Very vague description of why the 5.0l clutch is better than the 4.0l one.

3. Borg and Beck make the Range Rover 3.9l clutch part number FTC2001/2

4. Then I see this part has been superceded by FTC4828

The prices range from £100 including delivery up to over £250, which is why I'm being careful.

If anyone knows how to get hold of B+B application notes please get in touch.

[rev-erend]

OK - 9.5 inch, you need to know how many splines the LT77 box has ... can't remember off the top of my head
but asking techniclutch via ebay for the 5 litre clutch with LT77 sounds like the way to go as they do a guarantee.

[rev-erend]

Info here .. Lee33 did it all in for £300 fitted..

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

[L33]

rev-erend said:

Info here .. Lee33 did it all in for £300 fitted..

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

I did look for that post earlier but couldn't find it!