E46 330i vs. E36 M3 ?
Discussion
Guys,
Just delving into BMW specs with a view to purchase (there is another thread regarding my M3 economy vs. common sense decision crisis).
My question is: In terms of performance, is the E46 330i comparable with the E36 M3 ? Insurance is significantly less for me, and economy seems the match of my Prelude VTEC at about 30 mpg if driven sensibly. Would a 330i be a realistic compromise, or is there a big difference in character?
Apart from rear suspension issues, are there any common faults, and do I have a chance of doing my own servicing and repairs?
Circumstances dictate I need 4 doors, I'd love an M3, but I'm hitting a fuel and potential running cost wall. Budget is around £4k. Any suggestions on the best BMW model to go for to match or exceed the performance of my Prelude, but have the practicality of 4 doors? And what mileage I should be looking for at that price point?
A lot to ask, but thanks in advance for ant advice!
Just delving into BMW specs with a view to purchase (there is another thread regarding my M3 economy vs. common sense decision crisis).
My question is: In terms of performance, is the E46 330i comparable with the E36 M3 ? Insurance is significantly less for me, and economy seems the match of my Prelude VTEC at about 30 mpg if driven sensibly. Would a 330i be a realistic compromise, or is there a big difference in character?
Apart from rear suspension issues, are there any common faults, and do I have a chance of doing my own servicing and repairs?
Circumstances dictate I need 4 doors, I'd love an M3, but I'm hitting a fuel and potential running cost wall. Budget is around £4k. Any suggestions on the best BMW model to go for to match or exceed the performance of my Prelude, but have the practicality of 4 doors? And what mileage I should be looking for at that price point?
A lot to ask, but thanks in advance for ant advice!
According to the stats there is not a massive difference in performance between the two but the M3 feels a lot faster. This could be to do with engine note, refinement etc but they drive completely differently. My 330 never felt that fast although it was reliable and reasonably comfortable however the fly-by-wire throttle response (or lack thereof) made it frustrating to drive in stop-start traffic. Economy was similar (25 vs 28).
eta - at £4K you're on dodgy ground with the M3. Personally I would go for a nice E39 530 sport.
eta - at £4K you're on dodgy ground with the M3. Personally I would go for a nice E39 530 sport.
Edited by duff on Thursday 10th March 22:21
I want from a 2,2 Prelude to a e46 330i 2002 sport (faclift model).
Economy was about the same on both cars. If you can get 30mpg on the Honda then you will get that on the BMW. I honestly don't know how you manage 30mpg on the Honda - must be torture...
I did covert my 330i to LPG which was great - I have posted on here a couple times about it in detail so just do the PH Google search for '330i LPG' and the threads should come up.
I found both cars quite 'soft' (my Prelude was the last generation and of course the best looking one with the upright lights!) in GT type way. The 330 was firmly sprung though and felt 'sportier'. The gearshift was not a patch on any Honda I have driven. The Honda felt as fast but the 330 is faster on paper but that is down to refinement and very linear power delivery - I missed the Vtec kick (which Mcars have). It was step up in terms of speed, handling and refinement and I was glad I did it but I just new a M3 was what I really wanted but as I used the car for work and did big miles the 330 was the right choice (and I could not find anyone who had converted and M3 to lpg..)
The 330 is not an Mcar - go for a drive in any M car and even as a passenger you will understand the differences - just like a fast Honda is not a Type R.
Not saying a 330 is a bad car at all though - perhaps buy a 330 and a good price and see how you get on and use it as a stepping stone to an M3. Fuel is obviously a factor but it is the Mcar parts and bills that worry most...
What about getting a Honda Civic daily drive and M3 for weekends? I think that is the way to go when on a budget with an Mcar.
Economy was about the same on both cars. If you can get 30mpg on the Honda then you will get that on the BMW. I honestly don't know how you manage 30mpg on the Honda - must be torture...
I did covert my 330i to LPG which was great - I have posted on here a couple times about it in detail so just do the PH Google search for '330i LPG' and the threads should come up.
I found both cars quite 'soft' (my Prelude was the last generation and of course the best looking one with the upright lights!) in GT type way. The 330 was firmly sprung though and felt 'sportier'. The gearshift was not a patch on any Honda I have driven. The Honda felt as fast but the 330 is faster on paper but that is down to refinement and very linear power delivery - I missed the Vtec kick (which Mcars have). It was step up in terms of speed, handling and refinement and I was glad I did it but I just new a M3 was what I really wanted but as I used the car for work and did big miles the 330 was the right choice (and I could not find anyone who had converted and M3 to lpg..)
The 330 is not an Mcar - go for a drive in any M car and even as a passenger you will understand the differences - just like a fast Honda is not a Type R.
Not saying a 330 is a bad car at all though - perhaps buy a 330 and a good price and see how you get on and use it as a stepping stone to an M3. Fuel is obviously a factor but it is the Mcar parts and bills that worry most...
What about getting a Honda Civic daily drive and M3 for weekends? I think that is the way to go when on a budget with an Mcar.
I just read your profile and see that you think the 2,3 Prelude was better than the 2,2 because you did not need to rev it.
In that case you will prefer a 330 to an M3.
I am the opposite and like to have to rev the engine but do like to have some torque low down and loved the 2,2 vtec engine as it gave enough torque for cruising but delivered all the way to the rev limiter whereas the 330 seems to flatten of although revs beautifully and smoothly all the way to the limit but doesn't really give an extra kick.
The e36 M3 I drove was plenty torquey but like a Vtec if yo didn't rev it you were not getting the best of the performance...
In that case you will prefer a 330 to an M3.
I am the opposite and like to have to rev the engine but do like to have some torque low down and loved the 2,2 vtec engine as it gave enough torque for cruising but delivered all the way to the rev limiter whereas the 330 seems to flatten of although revs beautifully and smoothly all the way to the limit but doesn't really give an extra kick.
The e36 M3 I drove was plenty torquey but like a Vtec if yo didn't rev it you were not getting the best of the performance...
Between the two: M3 every time.
However, it does have the potential to land you a big bill which if you're on a budget may hurt.
As an alternative, something like this might do.....
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C214317/#
80% ish of an M3 IME, cheaper to run and far better to drive than a boggo E46.
However, it does have the potential to land you a big bill which if you're on a budget may hurt.
As an alternative, something like this might do.....
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C214317/#
80% ish of an M3 IME, cheaper to run and far better to drive than a boggo E46.
Excellent info , so thanks to all who took the time to reply.
I went for a ride in a colleagues E36 M3 this week and was very impressed with performance - noticably better acceleration than the Prelude (as expected). Yes, I did like the 2.3 Prelude engine, and would happily have kept it had the cylinder head not cracked in half.
The max. average mpg I've had in the Prelude was 34 mpg over a tank. I'm happy to dawdle to work down the motorway, but having driven my wifes 306 and my Dad's Civic on a temporary basis, I know there is no way I could live without some grunt as and when it's needed. I'm not into 10/10ths driving everywhere, and if the truth be known I don't tend to push things too far around the bends these days. This would be especally so with two kids on board.
Basically I want the performance of my Prelude, with 4 doors, and the ability to do my own servicing. Budget around £4k. I would be very wary about buying such a car other than a BMW, Honda or similar (ie definitely nothing French or Italian).
As far as having 2 cars, I've already got an MGB and an E-Type that I never really drive, so a fun car and a sensible car is out. I have to combine the two, no question.
To the 330i owners: someone mentioned the electronic throttle being a bit crap in traffic. Any other thoughts on this?
And the 3-series 2.8i? Yes, that is the car I looked at as a replacement for the 2.3 Prelude when it packed up. Performance was equivalent IIRC, so it is still an option. BTW, yes, the 530i looks a great car, but is too big for my liking. I'd really like to stick to an E36 or E46 3 series if possible. It's a nightmare sorting out a spec. though!
Cheers.
I went for a ride in a colleagues E36 M3 this week and was very impressed with performance - noticably better acceleration than the Prelude (as expected). Yes, I did like the 2.3 Prelude engine, and would happily have kept it had the cylinder head not cracked in half.
The max. average mpg I've had in the Prelude was 34 mpg over a tank. I'm happy to dawdle to work down the motorway, but having driven my wifes 306 and my Dad's Civic on a temporary basis, I know there is no way I could live without some grunt as and when it's needed. I'm not into 10/10ths driving everywhere, and if the truth be known I don't tend to push things too far around the bends these days. This would be especally so with two kids on board.
Basically I want the performance of my Prelude, with 4 doors, and the ability to do my own servicing. Budget around £4k. I would be very wary about buying such a car other than a BMW, Honda or similar (ie definitely nothing French or Italian).
As far as having 2 cars, I've already got an MGB and an E-Type that I never really drive, so a fun car and a sensible car is out. I have to combine the two, no question.
To the 330i owners: someone mentioned the electronic throttle being a bit crap in traffic. Any other thoughts on this?
And the 3-series 2.8i? Yes, that is the car I looked at as a replacement for the 2.3 Prelude when it packed up. Performance was equivalent IIRC, so it is still an option. BTW, yes, the 530i looks a great car, but is too big for my liking. I'd really like to stick to an E36 or E46 3 series if possible. It's a nightmare sorting out a spec. though!
Cheers.
ive got a facelift 330 and a mate had a e36 m3(non evo) that was track prepped(stripped,cage,coilovers,bushes,new exhaust and better LSD)
not the fairest of comparisions as the m3 was slightly faster in a straight line than standard. below 4k both felt fairly even however at around 4k the m3 seemed to come 'on cam' and pulled very hard to the redline and felt on par with another friends stage 1 evo 7. i never put the 330 against it and the 330 does mast its speed quite well but im sure the m3 would have been pulling away from me in every gear with ease. in this spec 100mph will come up very quickly.
for day to day driving with comfort in mind then the 330 is a nicer place to be than any e36 model, but the m3 was better than the evo 7 in that sense(mainly due to the evo's seats)
a standard m3 is quick, but with a few choice mods it will be an animal
not the fairest of comparisions as the m3 was slightly faster in a straight line than standard. below 4k both felt fairly even however at around 4k the m3 seemed to come 'on cam' and pulled very hard to the redline and felt on par with another friends stage 1 evo 7. i never put the 330 against it and the 330 does mast its speed quite well but im sure the m3 would have been pulling away from me in every gear with ease. in this spec 100mph will come up very quickly.
for day to day driving with comfort in mind then the 330 is a nicer place to be than any e36 model, but the m3 was better than the evo 7 in that sense(mainly due to the evo's seats)
a standard m3 is quick, but with a few choice mods it will be an animal
ferrisbueller said:
Between the two: M3 every time.
However, it does have the potential to land you a big bill which if you're on a budget may hurt.
As an alternative, something like this might do.....
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C214317/#
I too think you want try an E36 328i Coupe as a 'compromise' M3. If you're prepared to drive an e36 over an e46, then the 328i makes a lot of sense on driver appeal. It might not be 'the answer' but it might be the compromise. The one above looks superb value.However, it does have the potential to land you a big bill which if you're on a budget may hurt.
As an alternative, something like this might do.....
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C214317/#
dr_gn - seeing your requirements now and how you drive I think the 330i will be perfect and an M3 not what you want - the 330 is a nice step up in performance, comfort and refinement from what you have whilst still giving plenty of performance (and hooliganism) if you so wish.
When tootling around town it has a lovely bassy burble (that can be enhanced with a nice aftermarket system) and I think sound better than all the M3's at low revs as it does not lose the delicious bassy BMW sound that is a trademark of that straight 6. I used to love starting it from cold in our underground parking, even on the standard exhaust it had a lovely bassy note...
It has nice torque low down which is handy when you want to make smooth progress without upsetting the kids (and mrs) and whilst revs smoothly to the redline does not need to be caned to get the best out of it (which means you will see your 30mpg). I drove mine very hard and achieved 25mpg overall.
The throttle issue was not a problem for me on my facelift car. I test drove a pre facelit car that I found impossible to drive because of it - I was kangarooing like a learner (and I have driven some really old crap cars so should be able to to anything modern easily enough).
I would test out a sport and SE to se what you think of the difference in ride. A 328 could be another good bet but for me they are getting very long in the tooth and I do not like the e36 interior.
Don't discount a 530i without a drive though - you might just love it as they are nice cars and not really that big...
An accord is a good shout but the Type R is even more revvy than your Prelude and I think will not feel like much of an event unless you are caning it like it meant to be driven.
If you want to stick with Honda then what about one of those V6 Legends...
Edit to add: the throttle issue gets talked allot on here but it does seem to vary from car to car as I drove another prefacelift model that was fine but apparently the facelift cars were better for this. The facelift seemed to be largely cosmetic and nice prefacelift sport with the right wheels can be a fine looking car and looks much more like an M3 as that M3 was never facelifted...
When tootling around town it has a lovely bassy burble (that can be enhanced with a nice aftermarket system) and I think sound better than all the M3's at low revs as it does not lose the delicious bassy BMW sound that is a trademark of that straight 6. I used to love starting it from cold in our underground parking, even on the standard exhaust it had a lovely bassy note...
It has nice torque low down which is handy when you want to make smooth progress without upsetting the kids (and mrs) and whilst revs smoothly to the redline does not need to be caned to get the best out of it (which means you will see your 30mpg). I drove mine very hard and achieved 25mpg overall.
The throttle issue was not a problem for me on my facelift car. I test drove a pre facelit car that I found impossible to drive because of it - I was kangarooing like a learner (and I have driven some really old crap cars so should be able to to anything modern easily enough).
I would test out a sport and SE to se what you think of the difference in ride. A 328 could be another good bet but for me they are getting very long in the tooth and I do not like the e36 interior.
Don't discount a 530i without a drive though - you might just love it as they are nice cars and not really that big...
An accord is a good shout but the Type R is even more revvy than your Prelude and I think will not feel like much of an event unless you are caning it like it meant to be driven.
If you want to stick with Honda then what about one of those V6 Legends...
Edit to add: the throttle issue gets talked allot on here but it does seem to vary from car to car as I drove another prefacelift model that was fine but apparently the facelift cars were better for this. The facelift seemed to be largely cosmetic and nice prefacelift sport with the right wheels can be a fine looking car and looks much more like an M3 as that M3 was never facelifted...
Edited by Dino D on Friday 11th March 12:53
So for the 330i then, what can I expect for £4k in terms of condition/service history/mileage ?
I guess the facelift model sounds like the potential throttle problem is not as bad?
Which features are a 'must have' ?
What do I need to look for in the service history - isn't there a fairly major problem with susension mounts on E46's ?
I'm sure I read something about dodgy radiators too on these things too?
Can I service it myself (oil / filter etc change) and do I need a dealer for anything other than diagnostics?
What are they like to work on - I'm thinking suspension work / clutch / brakes ?
Thanks!
I guess the facelift model sounds like the potential throttle problem is not as bad?
Which features are a 'must have' ?
What do I need to look for in the service history - isn't there a fairly major problem with susension mounts on E46's ?
I'm sure I read something about dodgy radiators too on these things too?
Can I service it myself (oil / filter etc change) and do I need a dealer for anything other than diagnostics?
What are they like to work on - I'm thinking suspension work / clutch / brakes ?
Thanks!
I can't say what they're like to work on but I'm not aware of any real weak points with the car. Top mounts were an issue on the e36 - not sure about the e46 but you're not talking alot of money even if they do need doing. Don't think they go through bushes any more than other BMWs. Not heard of issues with the rad, perhaps you're thinking of the cooling systems on the E39 5 series?
Your biggest issue spec wise will be the 'box. If you're happy with an auto then there's plenty to choose from but if you must have a manual (as I did) then you might find your choice limited. The market dictates leather for re-sale (but I'd have happily had cloth) the Sport is much more desirable than the SE, not the most comfortable ride but looks much nicer.
I had an early facelift car and suffered throttle issues. I'm not sure if a remap would cure this to some extent of perhaps the clutch delay valve removal (might be thinking of another car?)
Your biggest issue spec wise will be the 'box. If you're happy with an auto then there's plenty to choose from but if you must have a manual (as I did) then you might find your choice limited. The market dictates leather for re-sale (but I'd have happily had cloth) the Sport is much more desirable than the SE, not the most comfortable ride but looks much nicer.
I had an early facelift car and suffered throttle issues. I'm not sure if a remap would cure this to some extent of perhaps the clutch delay valve removal (might be thinking of another car?)
Dino D said:
I am the opposite and like to have to rev the engine but do like to have some torque low down and loved the 2,2 vtec engine as it gave enough torque for cruising but delivered all the way to the rev limiter whereas the 330 seems to flatten of although revs beautifully and smoothly all the way to the limit but doesn't really give an extra kick.
The e36 M3 I drove was plenty torquey but like a Vtec if yo didn't rev it you were not getting the best of the performance...
I know exactly what you mean. In some ways it's nice to have a reason to rev hard. I have a 330 and often drive a friend's Ford ST220. WHile overall performance is very similar, the ST220 gives its best at the top and is less pokey at low/med revs, whereas the 330 delivers in a slightly more even way. The e36 M3 I drove was plenty torquey but like a Vtec if yo didn't rev it you were not getting the best of the performance...
M-engines of the 3.0-3.2 type are not massively different from a 330i at low revs as others have said. It's really in the 2nd half of the rev range that you suddenly appreciate their extra 40%+ more output
ks.I think between this thread and the other M3 thread, I'm looking at either an E36 M3 Evo, or far more likely an E46 330i. I suppose it all depends what I can find in the next few months. If an M3 Evo came up locallly that was too good to miss, I'd buy it.
Having said that, I think the 330i is probably the better introduction to BMW motoring for me. I am still undecided to be honest.
The roads around where I live near Sheffield must be some of the worst in the country, so, with the 330i, should I go with the non sport suspension?
Also transmissions: I'd be happy with auto or manual on the softer 330i, so are there any benefits or things to look out for with either transmission?
Cheers
Having said that, I think the 330i is probably the better introduction to BMW motoring for me. I am still undecided to be honest.
The roads around where I live near Sheffield must be some of the worst in the country, so, with the 330i, should I go with the non sport suspension?
Also transmissions: I'd be happy with auto or manual on the softer 330i, so are there any benefits or things to look out for with either transmission?
Cheers
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