Aftermarket ECU Maps collation RV8's
Discussion
Hi All,
With all the aftermarket ECU's Emerald,Omex etc etc I thought it would be a good idea and easier for everyone if they were all put together making it easier to share the maps.
If you would like to share a map(s) I am putting a page on TGP with them on so you can download them. Please mail me them through HERE
AS to keep the list tidy would be great if you could add what mods/engine size etc to the mail.
Cheers
BB
With all the aftermarket ECU's Emerald,Omex etc etc I thought it would be a good idea and easier for everyone if they were all put together making it easier to share the maps.
If you would like to share a map(s) I am putting a page on TGP with them on so you can download them. Please mail me them through HERE
AS to keep the list tidy would be great if you could add what mods/engine size etc to the mail.
Cheers
BB
I know I wouldn't want any of my maps out on general release .. I've never password protected any of my aftermarket ecus as I always like owners to get actively involved in tweaking should they see fit, or allowing another rolling road to update the maps if any further work is done. If i have to start preventing 3rd party access to aftermarket ECU maps then that is a very backward step IMO. The only other option is to accept that as the customer paid for the work then technically I guess it's their map to do with what they like, but I would hope that morally they would realise it would be unwise to put someones hard work on general release.
On the upside there's a whole host of extremely talented home techies who have probably come up with excellent maps themselves which they may well be only too willing to give away on a website, after all they're not trying to make a business out of it.
On the upside there's a whole host of extremely talented home techies who have probably come up with excellent maps themselves which they may well be only too willing to give away on a website, after all they're not trying to make a business out of it.
TC
I appreciate your concerns, however, I am also sure you would say that any map for a car is wholly specific to that car and that it's use will only ever at best be a substitute, or development step ahead of a full rolling road set up with someone like yourself.
I have harvested a whole range of maps from generous PH people, and in getting mine started in the garage at home it has been an invaluable resource. However, the car is running, but it won't be taking me to Brands Hatch this weekend, not until it has been to Emerald for it's set next Tuesday would dream of using the car properly.
The base map from Emerald is very good, and get's your car started, but if your set up varies and you want to look at later developed maps that cover off differing functions of the ECU then looknig around in to other peoples is very useful.
There are a few reason why I didn't want to employ the services of Mark Adams, and chose to go for an Emerald. One of those being the availability of knowledge and maps that could be exchanged. The other being the ability to go in and change the settings myself and assess the changes, if aftermarket tuners are going to start locking their maps the same frustration will start for these as it exists for Mr Adams.
I do appreciate there is a certain amount of intellectual property rights stored away in those injection/ignition numbers, but it's the ability to put all of that together for an individual car and it's set up that set's yourself and other tuners apart.
You can have all mine next Tuesday evening BB
Check your email on fuel pressure regulator debate . .
I appreciate your concerns, however, I am also sure you would say that any map for a car is wholly specific to that car and that it's use will only ever at best be a substitute, or development step ahead of a full rolling road set up with someone like yourself.
I have harvested a whole range of maps from generous PH people, and in getting mine started in the garage at home it has been an invaluable resource. However, the car is running, but it won't be taking me to Brands Hatch this weekend, not until it has been to Emerald for it's set next Tuesday would dream of using the car properly.
The base map from Emerald is very good, and get's your car started, but if your set up varies and you want to look at later developed maps that cover off differing functions of the ECU then looknig around in to other peoples is very useful.
There are a few reason why I didn't want to employ the services of Mark Adams, and chose to go for an Emerald. One of those being the availability of knowledge and maps that could be exchanged. The other being the ability to go in and change the settings myself and assess the changes, if aftermarket tuners are going to start locking their maps the same frustration will start for these as it exists for Mr Adams.
I do appreciate there is a certain amount of intellectual property rights stored away in those injection/ignition numbers, but it's the ability to put all of that together for an individual car and it's set up that set's yourself and other tuners apart.
You can have all mine next Tuesday evening BB
Check your email on fuel pressure regulator debate . .im said:
Can you do this with other peoples maps?
Surely the likes of Mark Adams etc might get a bit upset if you start sharing his work about or am I missing a trick.
I hate playing Devils advocate again but here goes...Surely the likes of Mark Adams etc might get a bit upset if you start sharing his work about or am I missing a trick.
It might also be appropriate to give a moments thought to liability should something, anything, go wrong.
People have a way of being grateful for the freebee but getting litigious when said freebee explodes in their face (ie damages their engine etc...)
The fact that YOU are allowing a personalised set-up for your car to be downloaded by almost anyone for their own vehicles use could have consequences. You'd certainly have to throw in a full and frank disclaimer I would have thought.
I'm no lawyer but these things do deserve due consideration - even if they are then deemed not worthy of further debate.
IMHO
I'm very keen to avoid the sort of thing that happens with the Lucas systems as you rightly point out, in fact I'm probably the most ardent supporter of junking the Lucas and have been for many years and it's absolutely fabulous to see so many other owners now doing the out with the old in with the new conversions and i'm probably being too over protective but when you lavish care and attention on something whether it be a hardware product or numbers in a table you kind of get like that 
Mind you if it gets people through the door for more mapping (the really fun bits of my job) that's got to be a good thing .. hmm maybe I was being too hasty previously ..
and i'm probably being too over protective but when you lavish care and attention on something whether it be a hardware product or numbers in a table you kind of get like that Mind you if it gets people through the door for more mapping (the really fun bits of my job) that's got to be a good thing .. hmm maybe I was being too hasty previously ..
im said:
im said:
Can you do this with other peoples maps?
Surely the likes of Mark Adams etc might get a bit upset if you start sharing his work about or am I missing a trick.
I hate playing Devils advocate again but here goes...Surely the likes of Mark Adams etc might get a bit upset if you start sharing his work about or am I missing a trick.
It might also be appropriate to give a moments thought to liability should something, anything, go wrong.
People have a way of being grateful for the freebee but getting litigious when said freebee explodes in their face (ie damages their engine etc...)
The fact that YOU are allowing a personalised set-up for your car to be downloaded by almost anyone for their own vehicles use could have consequences. You'd certainly have to throw in a full and frank disclaimer I would have thought.
I'm no lawyer but these things do deserve due consideration - even if they are then deemed not worthy of further debate.
IMHO
Most sites that have links to services etc do that in case the recommended product/service goes wrong.
It's a tricky one this, but I think I'm on the side of open source.
As mentioned above, people will only chose a map from an engine close to their spec. They will then need time on the rollers or self tuning to finish it off. Self/home tuners would get to the same conclusion anyway, it'd just take a couple of hours longer.
Other people would then take their cars to a rolling road for the final tuning. Surely the amount of time on the rollers is the same? The experienced operator would surely have entered a similar map to start from anyhow rather tan starting from scratch on each car?
As mentioned above, people will only chose a map from an engine close to their spec. They will then need time on the rollers or self tuning to finish it off. Self/home tuners would get to the same conclusion anyway, it'd just take a couple of hours longer.
Other people would then take their cars to a rolling road for the final tuning. Surely the amount of time on the rollers is the same? The experienced operator would surely have entered a similar map to start from anyhow rather tan starting from scratch on each car?
Another vote for open source.. if the Lucas 14CUX was open then myself and others probably would not need to change EMS.
I have a few maps from other people and when you look at them in details you realise the ignition table values are very similar.. and fueling differs quite a bit because of the different base pressure set.
When I finally get mine running then I'll send my map in too !
I have a few maps from other people and when you look at them in details you realise the ignition table values are very similar.. and fueling differs quite a bit because of the different base pressure set.
When I finally get mine running then I'll send my map in too !
I tend to agree with the open source attitude, and I will be supplying a couple of maps. I will do my best to allow the maps to be platform independant too.
But for the sake of safety I won't be providing the exact map I run on my car - eg. the fuelling will be slighly rich and timing slightly retarded.
I disagree with Rev-erend - I'd have replaced the Lucas ECU anyway, since it doesn't do timing control or wideband closed loop fuelling.
But for the sake of safety I won't be providing the exact map I run on my car - eg. the fuelling will be slighly rich and timing slightly retarded.
I disagree with Rev-erend - I'd have replaced the Lucas ECU anyway, since it doesn't do timing control or wideband closed loop fuelling.
I seems to me that this would be an incredibly useful resource. I can't wait to see it!
Just to be able to compare/contrast maps for similar engines with varying degrees of different specifications would be interesting.
I would have thought that providing a bit of information stating that the use of an inappropriate map could cause damage to the engine and that by downloading the information the user agrees to take ownership of all responsibilities & liabilities associated with it's use. That should cover the litigious scrotes
While I suppose one ought to honor the wishes of the author of the map I really don't see that sharing the information is a problem. A rolling road derived map will be uniquely suited to the engine configuration tested and another car even with a seemingly identical specification would result in a subtly but importantly different map.
Just to be able to compare/contrast maps for similar engines with varying degrees of different specifications would be interesting.
I would have thought that providing a bit of information stating that the use of an inappropriate map could cause damage to the engine and that by downloading the information the user agrees to take ownership of all responsibilities & liabilities associated with it's use. That should cover the litigious scrotes
While I suppose one ought to honor the wishes of the author of the map I really don't see that sharing the information is a problem. A rolling road derived map will be uniquely suited to the engine configuration tested and another car even with a seemingly identical specification would result in a subtly but importantly different map.
trackcar said:
.. hmm maybe I was being too hasty previously ..
more openness[sic] = more discussion = more interest = more conversions = more business. I think growing the market as a whole will be more productive than everyone trying to protect their own niche Disclaimer - I'm not responsible
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