Caught doing 92 in a 50!!! What an idiot!!

[fluffnik]

Vesuvius 996 said:

Principles? Fvck principles. Principles only ever hurt. They never help.

...and this, folks, is the legal system we are meant to care about being perverted.

It's past time to rip it all down and start again.

[Scraggles]

times like these, i get to love my cruise control

[deeps]

You're right Fluffnik, people will sell their soul for a lighter sentence it seems.

What gets me is, the ones that actually lie in court get a lighter sentence/outcome than those who state the truth.

They may not even realise it, but 95% of posters on this thread condone lieing in court. The whole system encourages that, and that's what the system gets. A victorian charade!
People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

[p1esk]

deeps said:

You're right Fluffnik, people will sell their soul for a lighter sentence it seems.

What gets me is, the ones that actually lie in court get a lighter sentence/outcome than those who state the truth.

They may not even realise it, but 95% of posters on this thread condone lieing in court. The whole system encourages that, and that's what the system gets. A victorian charade!
People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

I do agree with you, but for many people, not in the comfortable position of retirement, standing up for your principles and being outspoken in court must be a terribly difficult thing to do. Receiving points and fines is a PITA to all of us, but facing a possible ban, with all that can mean for employment, income, paying the mortgage, general financial difficulties - in turn possibly leading to marital strains etc. - all adds up to a severe constraint.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Vesuvius 996]

deeps said:

You're right Fluffnik, people will sell their soul for a lighter sentence it seems.

What gets me is, the ones that actually lie in court get a lighter sentence/outcome than those who state the truth.

They may not even realise it, but 95% of posters on this thread condone lieing in court. The whole system encourages that, and that's what the system gets. A victorian charade!
People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

Yes mate, that's life. Ho hum.

I can GUARANTEE that if you went to court, you'd sh't your pants and grovel. I guarantee it.

Look, I have drug dealers, gangsters (real one not children with hoods on), hookers, pimps, armed robbers and kidnappers as clients. I've seen more than you'd think cry in the toilet for their Mum before they're sent down.

[p1esk]

Vesuvius 996 said:

deeps said:

You're right Fluffnik, people will sell their soul for a lighter sentence it seems.

What gets me is, the ones that actually lie in court get a lighter sentence/outcome than those who state the truth.

They may not even realise it, but 95% of posters on this thread condone lieing in court. The whole system encourages that, and that's what the system gets. A victorian charade!
People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

Yes mate, that's life. Ho hum.

I can GUARANTEE that if you went to court, you'd sh't your pants and grovel. I guarantee it.

....and that's where you let yourself down, I'm sorry to say. Despite all your expertise and experience, and the good advice you've been offering here, you can't guarantee any such thing, and shouting it in capital letters does not do it either.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[NobleGuy]

jamesbett said:

...i never normally speed...

Yup.

[heebeegeetee]

deeps said:

People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

Yeah but isn't it so much better this way? Instead of justice being only accessible to those able to bribe the most, its available to anyone prepared to show a bit of respect.

[jamesbett]

Yup. Can i ask you what you mean by this.

[p1esk]

heebeegeetee said:

deeps said:

People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

Yeah but isn't it so much better this way? Instead of justice being only accessible to those able to bribe the most, its available to anyone prepared to show a bit of respect.

Are we talking about showing respect, as opposed to feeling respect though? I can understand why some people feel they have to go through this charade, but I don't go for showing respect if it is not genuinely felt. On the other hand one might feel able to maintain a quiet and polite stance, and that seems to me a sensible thing to do.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[fluffnik]

Vesuvius 996 said:

deeps said:

You're right Fluffnik, people will sell their soul for a lighter sentence it seems.

What gets me is, the ones that actually lie in court get a lighter sentence/outcome than those who state the truth.

They may not even realise it, but 95% of posters on this thread condone lieing in court. The whole system encourages that, and that's what the system gets. A victorian charade!
People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

Yes mate, that's life. Ho hum.

I can GUARANTEE that if you went to court, you'd sh't your pants and grovel. I guarantee it.

I have a suitable bespoke suit and can do OldMoneyRespectability rather well and if I found myself in court I'd deploy them both shamelessly.

Doesn't mean I don't want to bring an end to the UK and its Establishment though...

[Dr Jekyll]

There is a story of a barrister who was asked by the judge 'are you trying to show contempt for this court?' and replied 'no, I'm trying to conceal it.'

[Johnniem]

Vesuvius 996 said:

Fats25 said:

For what it's worth - I really really want to go in there and say what I feel.

However I have made my mind up to follow Vesuvius advice. I just need to practice biting my lip - and keeping my opinions to myself until I leave that magistrates!

It is going to hurt like hell - but would rather take the 15 minutes of not liking myself, than a longer period of not being able to drive/ride get on with my life.

Trust me, and don't take this the wrong way, when your case gets called on you're going to have enough trouble not sh'tting your pants. If you've never been to court before, you will absolutely sh't it. Just remember when you're standing there that these people can JAIL YOU if they don't like your face, and that should stop you smirking.

You'll be fine. Just follow the advice I gave earlier and it will make a difference.

I know it sucks, but you can either play the big man and get hammered, or just play by the rules and get a much lighter sentence.

One last bit of advice, which I should have mentioned before. It's obvious to a lawyer but might not be to a lay person. When they ask you "how will the fine be paid?" you can ask to spread the payments. So if they fine you £500, you can ask to pay at say £100 a month, or even £50 a month. Just make sure that whatever the fine is it will be settled within 12 months and you'll be fine.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Thursday 17th April 12:09

Just to add a bit to what Vesuvius has to say, an "old school" tie, or maybe a lodge tie could also do the trick...eh "soovy". I've done it myself (as a witness, not the accused!) and it offers the Judge a connection to you, however tenuous that may be. Slightly tongue in cheek I must admit but "Soovy" will know exactly what I am saying.

[heebeegeetee]

p1esk said:

heebeegeetee said:

deeps said:

People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

Yeah but isn't it so much better this way? Instead of justice being only accessible to those able to bribe the most, its available to anyone prepared to show a bit of respect.

Are we talking about showing respect, as opposed to feeling respect though? I can understand why some people feel they have to go through this charade, but I don't go for showing respect if it is not genuinely felt. On the other hand one might feel able to maintain a quiet and polite stance, and that seems to me a sensible thing to do.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Showing some respect to the people in the courts who are in there every day, day after day for better or worse, who no doubt have seen and heard it all.

[p1esk]

heebeegeetee said:

p1esk said:

heebeegeetee said:

deeps said:

People being judged on their dress, and ability to grovel and deceive, as a means to limit punishment. Not that dissimilar to bunging the magistrates a back hander in reality.

Yeah but isn't it so much better this way? Instead of justice being only accessible to those able to bribe the most, its available to anyone prepared to show a bit of respect.

Are we talking about showing respect, as opposed to feeling respect though? I can understand why some people feel they have to go through this charade, but I don't go for showing respect if it is not genuinely felt. On the other hand one might feel able to maintain a quiet and polite stance, and that seems to me a sensible thing to do.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

Showing some respect to the people in the courts who are in there every day, day after day for better or worse, who no doubt have seen and heard it all.

....and found a good deal of it unbelievable, I expect; including some of the declarations of regret, remorse and feelings of shame etc. In other words a bit of a charade.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[heebeegeetee]

p1esk said:

....and found a good deal of it unbelievable, I expect; including some of the declarations of regret, remorse and feelings of shame etc. In other words a bit of a charade.

Yes, but also possibly experienced enough to spot a fake?

[p1esk]

heebeegeetee said:

p1esk said:

....and found a good deal of it unbelievable, I expect; including some of the declarations of regret, remorse and feelings of shame etc. In other words a bit of a charade.

Yes, but also possibly experienced enough to spot a fake?

Presumably so, to some extent, but it all seems a bit of a game really, especially in relation to many motoring offences, which are only technical offences - breaking of rules - and not actually doing harm to anyone.

Yes, I know about the principle of 'preventative measures' etc., but I still don't take all of it very seriously - and nor do a great many people, I suspect.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[JADCampbell]

To jamesbett - could've been worse and as has already been said, we've all sped stupidly at some point - you were unlucky. You've taken it on the chin with good grace and should be applauded for that.

Can I ask, if it's not too depressing, what has happened to your insurance premium?

[fluffnik]

JADCampbell said:

You've taken it on the chin with good grace and should be applauded for that.

We should not be complicit in our own oppression, we should do everything in our power to confound, frustrate and undermine our oppressors.

[Oi_Oi_Savaloy]

Secondly, when you go to Court (assume you're pleading guilty) observe the following golden rules. These WORK, dear fellow.


1. Wear a dark plain suit
2. Wear a plain white shirt, and a plain tie
3. Wear decent shoes. Polish them.
4. No visible tatoos or jewellery. At all. Especially chains or ear rings.
5. Short neat hair. No hair gel.
6. Shave.
7. Absolutely no comedy socks.
8. When you arrive at court, go and find the Clerk of the Court. Tell him or her who you are, and that you've never been to court before and you're nervous and don't know what to do. Be very polite. Remember - these are the gatekeeper to the Magistrates. If you appear to them to be not the normal scrote, they will likely (a) call your case on first so you're not sitting with scum for hours and (b) tell the Magistrate that you seem like a thoroughly nice chap and not the type at all.
9. When answering a question, say "yes sir" and "no sir." This matters. It migh stick in your throat, but it might save your hide.
10. Show remorse. Say how you are ashamed of yourself, and very sorry, and that you appreicate the stupidity of what you did.
11. Bring letters from an employer saying what a thoroghly excellent employess you are. If you need your licence for work, this letter should say so.

Years of experience of the Courts taught me that these things, some of which seem as if they SHOULDN’T matter, damn well do. The Magistrates are people, with their own prejudices. By appearing to be not the usual scum seen in Court, you will surprise them, and they WILL be lenient.

Let us know what happens.
[/quote]


I went to court in March in Oswestry for a speeding offence (86mph in a 60 A road). I wore a suit and shoes etc etc (I don't have tattoo's or jewellery).

I was literally the only bloke in the waiting room wearing a suit that was not made out of nylon and not wearing the obligatory white trainers on.

As I sat there waiting to represent myself (I really needed to avoid a ban as I would have lost my job) I practised my short speech (3 topics; guilty, apology for speeding and sorry for wasting the court's time).

I did start to worry about things as the first two guys that went in didn't come out again (I had visions of a kafka-esque scenario).

I was feeling calm and collected but had butterflies (a good thing imo) right up until I walked into the court. I took two steps in and practically keeled over with the wave of adrenalin that hit me as I looked at the 3 magistrates (2 women - stern, 1 man - didn't look at him!). My speech went out of the window, my composure went awol and I had to spend the time the prosecutor read the charges out composing myself and generally getting my st together to respond coherently.

I'd been advised by a very well known solicitor in manchester that I was looking at 56 days and £750 fine. Walked out, having shown genuine remorse and guilt (I was guilty as hell and had admitted so) with 4 points and £350 plus costs.

From being right on the radar at work (Savaloy's going to be banned etc etc) it became a complete non-event for them and life is back to normal again. I do not want to go to court ever again.


edited for crap grammar and spelling.

Edited by Oi_Oi_Savaloy on Wednesday 23 April 17:29