My first accident; NOT my fault

[dpbird90]

Well, it's early days yet, a 5 mile round trip to Morrisons was pretty fun, but some of that was down to the snow. But as I said, terrible boot space.

[BMWBen]

Wow, never have I seen someone so totally fail to acknowledge or learn from their mistakes.

You sir, are destined to have more accidents.

[Mandat]

dpbird90 said:

Quick update: Accident Exchange came yesterday to take away the Fiat to be repaired, they said it's a non fault accident so they'll be sending the bill to her insurance. They have given me a Toyota Aygo to play with as well, I quite like it, pedals feel weird being in the proper place (they're all close together and tiny in the Fiat!) but I soon got used to it.
Is it possible to get a 5 door Aygo for <£3000? I like it a lot.

What happens when Accident Exchange can't recover all of their costs from the Third Party or their insurer? Will they come after you for any remaining balance?

[Twincharged]

Mandat said:

dpbird90 said:

Quick update: Accident Exchange came yesterday to take away the Fiat to be repaired, they said it's a non fault accident so they'll be sending the bill to her insurance. They have given me a Toyota Aygo to play with as well, I quite like it, pedals feel weird being in the proper place (they're all close together and tiny in the Fiat!) but I soon got used to it.
Is it possible to get a 5 door Aygo for <£3000? I like it a lot.

What happens when Accident Exchange can't recover all of their costs from the Third Party or their insurer? Will they come after you for any remaining balance?

Has it been an agreed non fault on your part then, or are they taking the case as that pending the response from the woman's insurers?

[dpbird90]

Twincharged said:

Mandat said:

dpbird90 said:

Quick update: Accident Exchange came yesterday to take away the Fiat to be repaired, they said it's a non fault accident so they'll be sending the bill to her insurance. They have given me a Toyota Aygo to play with as well, I quite like it, pedals feel weird being in the proper place (they're all close together and tiny in the Fiat!) but I soon got used to it.
Is it possible to get a 5 door Aygo for <£3000? I like it a lot.

What happens when Accident Exchange can't recover all of their costs from the Third Party or their insurer? Will they come after you for any remaining balance?

Has it been an agreed non fault on your part then, or are they taking the case as that pending the response from the woman's insurers?

I don't know, the Accident Exchange man got me to sign this thing that said I wasn't liable for any cost. Also came the standard letter saying it'll be ages before they can actually start fixing it and all that, and "not to respond to any correspondance from the other driver or their insurer"

Edited by dpbird90 on Friday 6th February 17:55

[Mandat]

dpbird90 said:

Twincharged said:

Mandat said:

dpbird90 said:

Quick update: Accident Exchange came yesterday to take away the Fiat to be repaired, they said it's a non fault accident so they'll be sending the bill to her insurance. They have given me a Toyota Aygo to play with as well, I quite like it, pedals feel weird being in the proper place (they're all close together and tiny in the Fiat!) but I soon got used to it.
Is it possible to get a 5 door Aygo for <£3000? I like it a lot.

What happens when Accident Exchange can't recover all of their costs from the Third Party or their insurer? Will they come after you for any remaining balance?

Has it been an agreed non fault on your part then, or are they taking the case as that pending the response from the woman's insurers?

I don't know, the Accident Exchange man got me to sign this thing that said I wasn't liable for any cost. Also came the standard letter saying it'll be ages before they can actually start fixing it and all that, and "not to respond to any correspondance from the other driver or their insurer"

Edited by dpbird90 on Friday 6th February 17:55

Have you read the contract carefully to see what your potential liabilities may be?

I'd say that it's pretty risky for Accident Exchange to underwrite all of your costs when the liabiltiy is unclear.

[btom]

BMWBen said:

Wow, never have I seen someone so totally fail to acknowledge or learn from their mistakes.

You sir, are destined to have more accidents.

So the insurance company is wrong? The OP is at fault?

OP - you've taken a lot of st on this thread, it appears that many PHers, inbetween pedantic ramblings on here, obey the highway code 100% at all times.

On a more relevant note, I would advise caution with any accident management company and would advise you cross check the rates AE are charging you with what your own insurer would pay out for an equivilant vehicle, thats really the only thing you can be caught out on.

[dpbird90]

btom said:

BMWBen said:

Wow, never have I seen someone so totally fail to acknowledge or learn from their mistakes.

You sir, are destined to have more accidents.

So the insurance company is wrong? The OP is at fault?

OP - you've taken a lot of st on this thread, it appears that many PHers, inbetween pedantic ramblings on here, obey the highway code 100% at all times.

On a more relevant note, I would advise caution with any accident management company and would advise you cross check the rates AE are charging you with what your own insurer would pay out for an equivilant vehicle, thats really the only thing you can be caught out on.

Cheers for the advice, I have to be extremely careful now anyway as the bodyshop looking at my car called today, and their quote for knocking the dent out of the door, putting a new wing on it and respraying just those bits was £1800. The car is insured for £2500, so I'm guessing they'll probably want to write it off, and as my dad said, attempt to fk me over with a stupid offer. My car is almost identical to this one on autotrader:
http://search.autotrader.co.uk/es-uk/www/cars/FIAT...

Except it has 5000 miles less than the one in the ad. Go figure

[Gompo]

Slightly off-topic - but you seriously like the Aygo? Prefer it to the Seicento?

After the Seicento surely the boot size of the Aygo cant be that much of a shock..

[alfabadass]

Sounds like 50/50.

You were both st.

Just being blunt but the insurance companies won't do anything, it'll cost you both. Being flashed isn't a get out as it's against the highway code. Did you indicate out? 2 1/2 ft is still practically parked in some peoples eyes :P

[dpbird90]

alfabadass said:

2 1/2 ft is still practically parked in some peoples eyes :P

I heard the Police fine you if you're parked more than 2 feet away from a kerb? Not certain on that though, but if it's true the "official" stance would be 2.5ft is not parked?

[dpbird90]

Gompo said:

After the Seicento surely the boot size of the Aygo cant be that much of a shock..

The Aygo's boot is a bit deceptive, it is actually a little bigger than the Seicento's, however because just the glass opens rather than a tailgate as per the Fiat the opening is quite a bit smaller, therefore the boot appears to be smaller.

And yes, I do like the Aygo. Fair enough it's not the best car in the world to drive, but it's a damn sight better than my old Fiat, and it's practically the perfect car for me: small but not too small (bigger than the Fiat) cheap (50mpg, £35 per year tax), Toyota reliability etc etc.

I am tempted by a lease deal on a Citroen C1, which as you know is the same car but with Toyota Aygo crossed out and Citroen C1 written on it. 3 year lease, £500 deposit & £115 per month for the 1.0 petrol with the VTR styling pack on it (rather nice looking alloys, and a tasteful, discreet bodykit rather than chavvy), aircon and a 6 CD multichanger. Only thing is I'd have to have it fully comp insurance, which is a problem when TPFT on a Seicento is £700, however because it's a Seicento "Sporting" it's group 3, the C1 is group 1. So maybe...

[Mandat]

dpbird90 said:

Gompo said:

After the Seicento surely the boot size of the Aygo cant be that much of a shock..

The Aygo's boot is a bit deceptive, it is actually a little bigger than the Seicento's, however because just the glass opens rather than a tailgate as per the Fiat the opening is quite a bit smaller, therefore the boot appears to be smaller.

And yes, I do like the Aygo. Fair enough it's not the best car in the world to drive, but it's a damn sight better than my old Fiat, and it's practically the perfect car for me: small but not too small (bigger than the Fiat) cheap (50mpg, £35 per year tax), Toyota reliability etc etc.

I am tempted by a lease deal on a Citroen C1, which as you know is the same car but with Toyota Aygo crossed out and Citroen C1 written on it. 3 year lease, £500 deposit & £115 per month for the 1.0 petrol with the VTR styling pack on it (rather nice looking alloys, and a tasteful, discreet bodykit rather than chavvy), aircon and a 6 CD multichanger. Only thing is I'd have to have it fully comp insurance, which is a problem when TPFT on a Seicento is £700, however because it's a Seicento "Sporting" it's group 3, the C1 is group 1. So maybe...

Don't forget the surcharge that your insurance co will add when you declare your accident, whether you're found at fault or not.

Edited by Mandat on Sunday 8th February 19:13

[Gompo]

dpbird90 said:

And yes, I do like the Aygo. Fair enough it's not the best car in the world to drive, but it's a damn sight better than my old Fiat, and it's practically the perfect car for me: small but not too small (bigger than the Fiat) cheap (50mpg, £35 per year tax), Toyota reliability etc etc

I am surprised - I've driven an Aygo and thought it was pretty bad. Lifeless steering and not great handling in general (could have been the tyres?), poor seats and quite a few poor design features. Maybe the influence of 2/3 manufactures was it's downfall.

When you say it's better than the Fiat, in what ways exactly? I thought you were a bit of a fan of the Seicento.

[RJB_666]

dpbird90 said:

Gompo said:

After the Seicento surely the boot size of the Aygo cant be that much of a shock..

The Aygo's boot is a bit deceptive, it is actually a little bigger than the Seicento's, however because just the glass opens rather than a tailgate as per the Fiat the opening is quite a bit smaller, therefore the boot appears to be smaller.

And yes, I do like the Aygo. Fair enough it's not the best car in the world to drive, but it's a damn sight better than my old Fiat, and it's practically the perfect car for me: small but not too small (bigger than the Fiat) cheap (50mpg, £35 per year tax), Toyota reliability etc etc.

I am tempted by a lease deal on a Citroen C1, which as you know is the same car but with Toyota Aygo crossed out and Citroen C1 written on it. 3 year lease, £500 deposit & £115 per month for the 1.0 petrol with the VTR styling pack on it (rather nice looking alloys, and a tasteful, discreet bodykit rather than chavvy), aircon and a 6 CD multichanger. Only thing is I'd have to have it fully comp insurance, which is a problem when TPFT on a Seicento is £700, however because it's a Seicento "Sporting" it's group 3, the C1 is group 1. So maybe...

My mate had a "sporting" and thats the thing that made his insurance expensive. The value of the new car will make your insurance expensive this time though. When i was 19 i insured a brand new corsa fully comp at around £1200, dropped down to just under £800 the following year. But you won't have to MOT the car for 3 years. And with a Citroen i think the first service would be after 2 years.

[BMWBen]

btom said:

BMWBen said:

Wow, never have I seen someone so totally fail to acknowledge or learn from their mistakes.

You sir, are destined to have more accidents.

So the insurance company is wrong? The OP is at fault?

OP - you've taken a lot of st on this thread, it appears that many PHers, inbetween pedantic ramblings on here, obey the highway code 100% at all times.

On a more relevant note, I would advise caution with any accident management company and would advise you cross check the rates AE are charging you with what your own insurer would pay out for an equivilant vehicle, thats really the only thing you can be caught out on.

You've totally missed the point too.

The technicality of whose "fault" it is, is totally irrelevant. As a driver, a owner of a car, a human being who wants to stay alive and a human being who (hopefully) doesn't ever want to be involved in the death of another person your aim should be to NOT HAVE ACCIDENTS.

Not having accidents that are your "fault" is great, but you know what's much better?

• Not having accidents at all.*

That's why I said what I said. The OP is not taking an PERSONAL repsonsibility (regardless of technical blame) for being involved in an accident that HE COULD HAVE AVOIDED.

Is that clear now?



I hope so, because the driving trait that he has displayed (i.e. not checking his blind spots before moving off) is one that is very likely to lead to accidents which ARE his fault. This time it might not have been. Next time he could send a biker underneath an oncoming truck.

Edited by BMWBen on Sunday 8th February 20:08

[Waugh-terfall]

dpbird90 said:

Gompo said:

After the Seicento surely the boot size of the Aygo cant be that much of a shock..

The Aygo's boot is a bit deceptive, it is actually a little bigger than the Seicento's, however because just the glass opens rather than a tailgate as per the Fiat the opening is quite a bit smaller, therefore the boot appears to be smaller.

And yes, I do like the Aygo. Fair enough it's not the best car in the world to drive, but it's a damn sight better than my old Fiat, and it's practically the perfect car for me: small but not too small (bigger than the Fiat) cheap (50mpg, £35 per year tax), Toyota reliability etc etc.

I am tempted by a lease deal on a Citroen C1, which as you know is the same car but with Toyota Aygo crossed out and Citroen C1 written on it. 3 year lease, £500 deposit & £115 per month for the 1.0 petrol with the VTR styling pack on it (rather nice looking alloys, and a tasteful, discreet bodykit rather than chavvy), aircon and a 6 CD multichanger. Only thing is I'd have to have it fully comp insurance, which is a problem when TPFT on a Seicento is £700, however because it's a Seicento "Sporting" it's group 3, the C1 is group 1. So maybe...

My local Caffyns Ford are doing brand new Ford Ka Zetecs for £189 Deposit and £189per month deals at the moment. If £189 wasn't almost my monthly wages, I'd have a shiny new Ka in my garage!

[collateral]

BMWBen said:

btom said:

BMWBen said:

Wow, never have I seen someone so totally fail to acknowledge or learn from their mistakes.

You sir, are destined to have more accidents.

So the insurance company is wrong? The OP is at fault?

OP - you've taken a lot of st on this thread, it appears that many PHers, inbetween pedantic ramblings on here, obey the highway code 100% at all times.

On a more relevant note, I would advise caution with any accident management company and would advise you cross check the rates AE are charging you with what your own insurer would pay out for an equivilant vehicle, thats really the only thing you can be caught out on.

You've totally missed the point too.

The technicality of whose "fault" it is, is totally irrelevant. As a driver, a owner of a car, a human being who wants to stay alive and a human being who (hopefully) doesn't ever want to be involved in the death of another person your aim should be to NOT HAVE ACCIDENTS.

Not having accidents that are your "fault" is great, but you know what's much better?

• Not having accidents at all.*

That's why I said what I said. The OP is not taking an PERSONAL repsonsibility (regardless of technical blame) for being involved in an accident that HE COULD HAVE AVOIDED.

Is that clear now?



I hope so, because the driving trait that he has displayed (i.e. not checking his blind spots before moving off) is one that is very likely to lead to accidents which ARE his fault. This time it might not have been. Next time he could send a biker underneath an oncoming truck.

Edited by BMWBen on Sunday 8th February 20:08

You make it sound like you think people choose to get in accidents.

Follow your train to it's conclusion and any crash that happens will be both car's fault for daring to be on the road at the same time!

[welshbikerduck]

It is your fault, man up and accept responsibility.

People like you get on my nerves, so wrapped up in other things that you can't concentrate on the road around you. Thankfully it was a car you hit and no one got hurt, what if a biker had been coming down and you pulled out in front of him? Chances are he would be injured, how badly is unkown but injured without doubt. Or what if a mother puching a pram decided to cross the road seeing as you had stopped? The what if's could go on and on.

Accidents like this just reinforce my view that everyone on the road should be made to do a motorcycle test, the standard of driving is really appaling in this country. If you rode a bike you wouldn't make the mistake of pulling out without checking the road is clear all around you, not just infront of you because the prize for not concentrating on the road and having good road awareness is pretty high.

I don't think you are 100% at fault here, all 3 people showed terrible road discipline. The van driver for flashing (you out) no one apart from police and traffic wardens should be directing traffic IMO if everyone just drove their own drive things would be a lot safer. You for pulling out into a road and not checking the road was clear, and i am sorry i don't by the "came from nowhere" scenario. That just reinforces the view of you not being aware of your road surroundings. Lastly our eastern European immigrant for failing to see what was going on, but if she did pull out of a side road far from being a stick to batter her with, i would say that is a plausible excuse for not seeing the incident unfold. She pulled onto a road that had no moving traffic (you and van man were stopped) so she proceeded. It sounds fair enough to me, but given you were only pulled over and not parked up she should have had the road sense to realise that you may pull out at any moment. Again as a biker trust me you look for this exact thing.

At best this will be a 50/50 IMO. If i was the judge sat on this from what i have read i would apportion a blame of 80/20 in her favour, with both of you put on a driver improvement course.

Don't take my criticism too personal you are young and inexperianced, therefore a lousy driver. We have all been there none of us were born with amazing road skills, and i just like you and everyone else here have made terrible decisions in the past. The important part is to learn from them, and hopefully no one gets injured along the way. Next time and every time be aware of your road surroundings.

[BMWBen]

collateral said:

BMWBen said:

btom said:

BMWBen said:

Wow, never have I seen someone so totally fail to acknowledge or learn from their mistakes.

You sir, are destined to have more accidents.

So the insurance company is wrong? The OP is at fault?

OP - you've taken a lot of st on this thread, it appears that many PHers, inbetween pedantic ramblings on here, obey the highway code 100% at all times.

On a more relevant note, I would advise caution with any accident management company and would advise you cross check the rates AE are charging you with what your own insurer would pay out for an equivilant vehicle, thats really the only thing you can be caught out on.

You've totally missed the point too.

The technicality of whose "fault" it is, is totally irrelevant. As a driver, a owner of a car, a human being who wants to stay alive and a human being who (hopefully) doesn't ever want to be involved in the death of another person your aim should be to NOT HAVE ACCIDENTS.

Not having accidents that are your "fault" is great, but you know what's much better?

• Not having accidents at all.*

That's why I said what I said. The OP is not taking an PERSONAL repsonsibility (regardless of technical blame) for being involved in an accident that HE COULD HAVE AVOIDED.

Is that clear now?



I hope so, because the driving trait that he has displayed (i.e. not checking his blind spots before moving off) is one that is very likely to lead to accidents which ARE his fault. This time it might not have been. Next time he could send a biker underneath an oncoming truck.

Edited by BMWBen on Sunday 8th February 20:08

You make it sound like you think people choose to get in accidents.

Follow your train to it's conclusion and any crash that happens will be both car's fault for daring to be on the road at the same time!

By choosing to take an extreme and irrational slant on it perhaps...

People don't choose to get in accidents, but in this one, there were mitigating steps that could have been taken which would've prevented it from happening.

It just so happens that those mitigating steps (which weren't taken) are ones that are ESSENTIAL to stay safe on the roads. As the chap above says, if a motorbike had been coming past this would be a thread more in the style of 10 pence's. The fact that it wasn't his fault was pure luck.