"P" plates, opinions please
Discussion
BertBert said:
RobM77 said:
I think they're a good idea, especially on today's roads where people are so impatient and aggressive.
And unforgiving, and intolerant?Bert
RobM77 said:
BertBert said:
RobM77 said:
I think they're a good idea, especially on today's roads where people are so impatient and aggressive.
And unforgiving, and intolerant?Bert
I am surprised to hear the negative comments, I hadn't thought of them, but can see the points being made.
Deva links two kids sum it up I suppose.
They are making my daughter feel safer, so seem to work for her, bit like lemsip and how I feel now lol
Hello All
The sad truth is one only needs to be an average driver driving extra carefully under the watchful eye of an official on roads that are familiar, with no external or self imposed time pressures in order to pass a driving test. Even a completely clean test marking sheet with 'no faults' only means that the observed standard of driving hasn't dropped below average for the duration of the test, not that it is perfect.
Once there are other pressures of whatever nature it often becomes apparent that many drivers are out of their depth.
The problem with learning to drive is that for many lessons are a 'distress' as opposed to an 'aspirational' purchase. The desire is frequently to get it done down to a price in order to obtain a licence as cheaply as possible rather than bringing the skill up to a high standard as one would expect when learning to fly.
As there are so many that adopt this 'how cheap are your lessons and when can I go for my test?' attitude, allied with a rose tinted view of one's offspring's abilities, learner driving instruction attracts very few expert professionals due to the low rates of pay. Compare for instance what you might expect to pay for an hour's journey in a mini-cab compared to a driving lesson of the same length.
Similarly
Does that mean your girls were fine first time round when they failed and hopeless when they passed? No. What it means is that the instructor was excusing himself from getting your children to a high enough standard to be consistently safe on the public highway.
Continuing..
Due to being so far within the safety envelope, as far as car control skills are concerned, there is no need for a Learner to have any appreciation of good technique. Once released on their own, they use their self developed (or instructor taught) bad techniques and apply them at higher speeds where they become critical. As an analogy it's like using walking locomotion at running speeds. It doesn't work.
Girls on the other hand tend to be more affected by social distractions, doing makeup, talking on phones which is more likely to lead to incidents whare car control is not a factor.
So as for the 'P' plates, stick 'em on ebay, use the proceeds (and more) to help fund some decent driver training. Once that's done the 'P' plates will be redundant.
Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
Nigel Worc's said:
...Daddies little 18 year old sweetheart passed her driving test yesterday.
She has taken 11 months to do it (on the road), failed her first test, passed her second, and she certainly isn't what you'd describe as a "natural", although I'm happy with where she is now.
During the 11 months she's also done some A levels, and learnt to fly.
She has been taught by an ADI who is also a senior observer in my group, and myself (a little bit)
She is off on her first pass plus lesson today, and will be undertaking her IAM advanced course in three months time.
Now the "P" plates, she's a lovely young thing (biased daddy lol), and will generally do as I suggest where cars are concerned.
She has fitted P plates.
Her ADI has suggested that he doesn't consider they are such a good thing, and are viewed as suggesting she isn't competent to be on the road.
Your thoughts ?
Then went on to sayShe has taken 11 months to do it (on the road), failed her first test, passed her second, and she certainly isn't what you'd describe as a "natural", although I'm happy with where she is now.
During the 11 months she's also done some A levels, and learnt to fly.
She has been taught by an ADI who is also a senior observer in my group, and myself (a little bit)
She is off on her first pass plus lesson today, and will be undertaking her IAM advanced course in three months time.
Now the "P" plates, she's a lovely young thing (biased daddy lol), and will generally do as I suggest where cars are concerned.
She has fitted P plates.
Her ADI has suggested that he doesn't consider they are such a good thing, and are viewed as suggesting she isn't competent to be on the road.
Your thoughts ?
Nigel Worc's said:
I'm surprised by the comments, or some of them so far, but thanks.
I've had her speak to me already !
Frightened to death she'd gone through a static scamera above the limit (she hadn't its in a nsl and is there to shut poxy residents up), so were going back through how you know what the speedlimit is.
A lot of the kids are frightened of this 6 points in two years rule.
Why had a car with lads in it pulled alongside her on a dual carrageway with his hazards on signalling her to stop ? ( I've no idea why, but told her I want the redg number if she experiences that again), she says they just sped up and went.
And she stalled on a hill this morning, with a van close behind her, apparently she stalled again, panicking, and the van driver shouted at her, told her she was a stupid cow and to get out of the effing way, so P plates don't seem to work, (once again, I've told her redg number if it happens again, or the company name on the van etc), and of course, try not to stall !
Some of her friends don't inspire me with confidence :
One has written her moms car off within hours of passing her test by pulling out of a junction, and has been reported for dwdcaa
Two have gotten six points, one within the first two weeks !
One has had his licence revoked for a single offence (I don't know what), but apparently he's decided he'll still drive!
And the last one I know of, has rear ended four other cars in a month !, all minor so no police involvement ........ yet
I've no specific knowledge but doubt newly qualified pilots have anything akin to a 'P' plate. I can't imagine the CAA would let anyone fly a plane if they couldn't stall it without panicking, which shows the difference in standards.I've had her speak to me already !
Frightened to death she'd gone through a static scamera above the limit (she hadn't its in a nsl and is there to shut poxy residents up), so were going back through how you know what the speedlimit is.
A lot of the kids are frightened of this 6 points in two years rule.
Why had a car with lads in it pulled alongside her on a dual carrageway with his hazards on signalling her to stop ? ( I've no idea why, but told her I want the redg number if she experiences that again), she says they just sped up and went.
And she stalled on a hill this morning, with a van close behind her, apparently she stalled again, panicking, and the van driver shouted at her, told her she was a stupid cow and to get out of the effing way, so P plates don't seem to work, (once again, I've told her redg number if it happens again, or the company name on the van etc), and of course, try not to stall !
Some of her friends don't inspire me with confidence :
One has written her moms car off within hours of passing her test by pulling out of a junction, and has been reported for dwdcaa
Two have gotten six points, one within the first two weeks !
One has had his licence revoked for a single offence (I don't know what), but apparently he's decided he'll still drive!
And the last one I know of, has rear ended four other cars in a month !, all minor so no police involvement ........ yet
The sad truth is one only needs to be an average driver driving extra carefully under the watchful eye of an official on roads that are familiar, with no external or self imposed time pressures in order to pass a driving test. Even a completely clean test marking sheet with 'no faults' only means that the observed standard of driving hasn't dropped below average for the duration of the test, not that it is perfect.
Once there are other pressures of whatever nature it often becomes apparent that many drivers are out of their depth.
The problem with learning to drive is that for many lessons are a 'distress' as opposed to an 'aspirational' purchase. The desire is frequently to get it done down to a price in order to obtain a licence as cheaply as possible rather than bringing the skill up to a high standard as one would expect when learning to fly.
As there are so many that adopt this 'how cheap are your lessons and when can I go for my test?' attitude, allied with a rose tinted view of one's offspring's abilities, learner driving instruction attracts very few expert professionals due to the low rates of pay. Compare for instance what you might expect to pay for an hour's journey in a mini-cab compared to a driving lesson of the same length.
Similarly
Deva Link said:
Both my girls passed second time - the instructor said that it seems to be almost completely random, kids who are fine will fail and those who are hopeless will pass.
A case in point and no offence is intended by what I write here just an insider's view of the industry. Does that mean your girls were fine first time round when they failed and hopeless when they passed? No. What it means is that the instructor was excusing himself from getting your children to a high enough standard to be consistently safe on the public highway.
Continuing..
Deva Link said:
One thing my more cautious (yet if anything, the more natural driver) daughter did was to go out a couple of times for a couple of hours with her instructor after passing. With the pressure off she just drove around - did some motorway stuff etc.
It's certainly true that many of the lads of her age crashed within a short space of time. The son of some friends of ours has just written of his mum's car for the second time in 4mths. He was doing 25MPH and skidded on a roundabout "because of the rain". Hmm...OK. You generally don't get that kind of thing with girls. The only girl I can recall crashing just drifted off a straight road for no apparent reason and was killed.
It is generally accepted by road safety academics that car control skills have little to do with boys having crashes. I would beg to differ somewhat on this. As someone who has taught those that want to get involved in competition driving, many of these keen drivers unsurprisingly apply techniques to driving fast that have become habitual from their Learner days.It's certainly true that many of the lads of her age crashed within a short space of time. The son of some friends of ours has just written of his mum's car for the second time in 4mths. He was doing 25MPH and skidded on a roundabout "because of the rain". Hmm...OK. You generally don't get that kind of thing with girls. The only girl I can recall crashing just drifted off a straight road for no apparent reason and was killed.
Due to being so far within the safety envelope, as far as car control skills are concerned, there is no need for a Learner to have any appreciation of good technique. Once released on their own, they use their self developed (or instructor taught) bad techniques and apply them at higher speeds where they become critical. As an analogy it's like using walking locomotion at running speeds. It doesn't work.
Girls on the other hand tend to be more affected by social distractions, doing makeup, talking on phones which is more likely to lead to incidents whare car control is not a factor.
So as for the 'P' plates, stick 'em on ebay, use the proceeds (and more) to help fund some decent driver training. Once that's done the 'P' plates will be redundant.
Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
Edited by Martin A on Thursday 19th November 12:57
Edited by Martin A on Thursday 19th November 13:00
Thanks Martin
No, pilots don't have P plates, but ........ they don't have too much around them either, and the CAA have nothing (as far as I know) to do with her flight training (they certainly had nothing to do with mine, but then again, the ministry of transport had nothing to do with my driver training or "test" either), which I believe they do now.
Her P plates have gone now I'm afraid to say, all bar one stolen from her vehicle whilst at college, and the remaining one did have the "enis" written on it that was predicted.
No, pilots don't have P plates, but ........ they don't have too much around them either, and the CAA have nothing (as far as I know) to do with her flight training (they certainly had nothing to do with mine, but then again, the ministry of transport had nothing to do with my driver training or "test" either), which I believe they do now.
Her P plates have gone now I'm afraid to say, all bar one stolen from her vehicle whilst at college, and the remaining one did have the "enis" written on it that was predicted.
Inexperienced pilots on early solo flights announce their status when making radio calls by attaching the word 'tyro' to their call sign.
One interesting basis of comparison between flight and driver training is that pilots start to practise solo when they are less than half-way through their training to license standard.
Will be taking her second motorway drive with my newly-passed 17 year old tomorrow.
One interesting basis of comparison between flight and driver training is that pilots start to practise solo when they are less than half-way through their training to license standard.
Will be taking her second motorway drive with my newly-passed 17 year old tomorrow.
Nigel Worc's said:
Hello all
Daddies little 18 year old sweetheart passed her driving test yesterday.
She has taken 11 months to do it (on the road), failed her first test, passed her second, and she certainly isn't what you'd describe as a "natural", although I'm happy with where she is now.
During the 11 months she's also done some A levels, and learnt to fly.
She has been taught by an ADI who is also a senior observer in my group, and myself (a little bit)
She is off on her first pass plus lesson today, and will be undertaking her IAM advanced course in three months time.
Now the "P" plates, she's a lovely young thing (biased daddy lol), and will generally do as I suggest where cars are concerned.
She has fitted P plates.
Her ADI has suggested that he doesn't consider they are such a good thing, and are viewed as suggesting she isn't competent to be on the road.
Your thoughts ?
Daddies little 18 year old sweetheart passed her driving test yesterday.
She has taken 11 months to do it (on the road), failed her first test, passed her second, and she certainly isn't what you'd describe as a "natural", although I'm happy with where she is now.
During the 11 months she's also done some A levels, and learnt to fly.
She has been taught by an ADI who is also a senior observer in my group, and myself (a little bit)
She is off on her first pass plus lesson today, and will be undertaking her IAM advanced course in three months time.
Now the "P" plates, she's a lovely young thing (biased daddy lol), and will generally do as I suggest where cars are concerned.
She has fitted P plates.
Her ADI has suggested that he doesn't consider they are such a good thing, and are viewed as suggesting she isn't competent to be on the road.
Your thoughts ?
I'm sorry but I keep thinking of the other types of A Levels 
waremark said:
Inexperienced pilots on early solo flights announce their status when making radio calls by attaching the word 'tyro' to their call sign.
I didn't, and I've just checked with my daughter, she didn't either !I haven't taken mine on a motorway yet, as this week I've had to ground myself (hence I've been on here a lot ...... I'm bored), first time since I've had my CPAP machine that I've not been able to use it (had man flu).
I had a good night on it last night, I think I should get another one tonight, and if so I'll allow myself to drive tomorrow, then I'll get her motorway bound.
waremark said:
Inexperienced pilots on early solo flights announce their status when making radio calls by attaching the word 'tyro' to their call sign.
One interesting basis of comparison between flight and driver training is that pilots start to practise solo when they are less than half-way through their training to license standard.
Will be taking her second motorway drive with my newly-passed 17 year old tomorrow.
I was discussing the difference between flying and driving with Mrs WG today.One interesting basis of comparison between flight and driver training is that pilots start to practise solo when they are less than half-way through their training to license standard.
Will be taking her second motorway drive with my newly-passed 17 year old tomorrow.
Seperation between 'planes being the difference.
No ATC on the Motorway.
Until the distance sensing radar is a universal fitment.
"Licence", btw.
Martin A said:
Hi Nigel
I'm sorry but I keep thinking of the other types of A Levels I sense I'm going to regret asking, but what are the other types ?I'm sure Taita will correct me if I'm wrong but I understand these are dyslexia tests from the days before GCSEs when we also had O levels. I believe they are also known as the 'Alan?' and 'Orla?' questions. If my education serves me correctly.
Hope this helps.
Best regards
Martin A
Cheers Martin, I'm from the days when we did GCE "O" levels, but have no recollection of those.Nigel Worc's said:
Taita said:
I'm sorry but I keep thinking of the other types of A Levels Hope this helps.
Best regards
Martin A
Martin A said:
Deva Link said:
Both my girls passed second time - the instructor said that it seems to be almost completely random, kids who are fine will fail and those who are hopeless will pass.
A case in point and no offence is intended by what I write here just an insider's view of the industry. Does that mean your girls were fine first time round when they failed and hopeless when they passed? No. What it means is that the instructor was excusing himself from getting your children to a high enough standard to be consistently safe on the public highway.
The worst driving girl we know, who can't park within 2ft of a kerb and has had several crashes but has a complete air-head attitude, passed first time as the driving test just didn't worry her.
Martin A said:
Deva Link said:
One thing my more cautious (yet if anything, the more natural driver) daughter did was to go out a couple of times for a couple of hours with her instructor after passing. With the pressure off she just drove around - did some motorway stuff etc.
It's certainly true that many of the lads of her age crashed within a short space of time. The son of some friends of ours has just written of his mum's car for the second time in 4mths. He was doing 25MPH and skidded on a roundabout "because of the rain". Hmm...OK. You generally don't get that kind of thing with girls. The only girl I can recall crashing just drifted off a straight road for no apparent reason and was killed.
It is generally accepted by road safety academics that car control skills have little to do with boys having crashes. I would beg to differ somewhat on this. As someone who has taught those that want to get involved in competition driving, many of these keen drivers unsurprisingly apply techniques to driving fast that have become habitual from their Learner days.It's certainly true that many of the lads of her age crashed within a short space of time. The son of some friends of ours has just written of his mum's car for the second time in 4mths. He was doing 25MPH and skidded on a roundabout "because of the rain". Hmm...OK. You generally don't get that kind of thing with girls. The only girl I can recall crashing just drifted off a straight road for no apparent reason and was killed.
Due to being so far within the safety envelope, as far as car control skills are concerned, there is no need for a Learner to have any appreciation of good technique. Once released on their own, they use their self developed (or instructor taught) bad techniques and apply them at higher speeds where they become critical. As an analogy it's like using walking locomotion at running speeds. It doesn't work.
Girls on the other hand tend to be more affected by social distractions, doing makeup, talking on phones which is more likely to lead to incidents whare car control is not a factor.
Of the accidents I know some details of, they are all caused either by doing something completely stupid (ie swerving at speed from side to side) or by driving at grossly excessive speeds, typically with friends in other cars around (ie they were racing).
Martin A said:
So as for the 'P' plates, stick 'em on ebay, use the proceeds (and more) to help fund some decent driver training. Once that's done the 'P' plates will be redundant.
I do think that's a good thing - I've done (and passed) advanced driver training myself.Youngsters often go from having a couple of hours a week of very stilted driving to suddenly driving an hour or more per day. In my families case it was a bit more gradual than that as both girls passed their tests at 17 but were at uni and didn't have their own cars or do much driving until they were 21.
Deva Link said:
Martin A said:
Deva Link said:
Both my girls passed second time - the instructor said that it seems to be almost completely random, kids who are fine will fail and those who are hopeless will pass.
A case in point and no offence is intended by what I write here just an insider's view of the industry. Does that mean your girls were fine first time round when they failed and hopeless when they passed? No. What it means is that the instructor was excusing himself from getting your children to a high enough standard to be consistently safe on the public highway.
The worst driving girl we know, who can't park within 2ft of a kerb and has had several crashes but has a complete air-head attitude, passed first time as the driving test just didn't worry her.
Personally, I make sure that drivers I send out on test are able to drive competently in unfamiliar surroundings.
The girl who passed first time was competent to pass the test from a driving mechanics point of view and knew that her attitude was important too in order to pass. It is unlikely that her control skills have decreased with further practice, rather that her attitude to the importance of safety is lax. As lasting physical injury rarely results from car crashes and there is no real downside to parking so far from the kerb in her eyes, it is unlikely that she will change the driving which, to all intents and purposes, keeps her from harm.
Deva Link said:
Martin A said:
Deva Link said:
One thing my more cautious (yet if anything, the more natural driver) daughter did was to go out a couple of times for a couple of hours with her instructor after passing. With the pressure off she just drove around - did some motorway stuff etc.
It's certainly true that many of the lads of her age crashed within a short space of time. The son of some friends of ours has just written of his mum's car for the second time in 4mths. He was doing 25MPH and skidded on a roundabout "because of the rain". Hmm...OK. You generally don't get that kind of thing with girls. The only girl I can recall crashing just drifted off a straight road for no apparent reason and was killed.
It is generally accepted by road safety academics that car control skills have little to do with boys having crashes. I would beg to differ somewhat on this. As someone who has taught those that want to get involved in competition driving, many of these keen drivers unsurprisingly apply techniques to driving fast that have become habitual from their Learner days.It's certainly true that many of the lads of her age crashed within a short space of time. The son of some friends of ours has just written of his mum's car for the second time in 4mths. He was doing 25MPH and skidded on a roundabout "because of the rain". Hmm...OK. You generally don't get that kind of thing with girls. The only girl I can recall crashing just drifted off a straight road for no apparent reason and was killed.
Due to being so far within the safety envelope, as far as car control skills are concerned, there is no need for a Learner to have any appreciation of good technique. Once released on their own, they use their self developed (or instructor taught) bad techniques and apply them at higher speeds where they become critical. As an analogy it's like using walking locomotion at running speeds. It doesn't work.
Girls on the other hand tend to be more affected by social distractions, doing makeup, talking on phones which is more likely to lead to incidents whare car control is not a factor.
Of the accidents I know some details of, they are all caused either by doing something completely stupid (ie swerving at speed from side to side) or by driving at grossly excessive speeds, typically with friends in other cars around (ie they were racing).
For instance watch pretty well any Learner approach a left turn and you will notice that they change gear and steer too early, while braking too late and through the corner. The instructor may not teach them that but the instructor allows them to learn that that works. What the instructor does not explain or demonstrate is that such bad technique is likely to cause problems at higher speeds.
What is often labelled as stupidity is often merely ignorance due to lack of education in the appropriate field. I do not regard my lack of knowledge regarding the workings of the CAA in an earlier post as stupid, simply ignorant. Learning also requires understanding and testing of the veracity of statements as through much of our lives we are told things which simply are not true. From Santa Claus to WMD in Iraq.
Many of us adapt the actions of those that we admire. I for instance admire those of original thought and will examine a populist view before subscribing to it. Is it any surprise that youngsters now, swerve from side to side, race and drive at excessive speeds to emulate those that they admire on the race track in spite of not having their skills.
Deva Link said:
Youngsters often go from having a couple of hours a week of very stilted driving to suddenly driving an hour or more per day. In my families case it was a bit more gradual than that as both girls passed their tests at 17 but were at uni and didn't have their own cars or do much driving until they were 21.
You are correct about the stilted driving but once again, as a professional in the field, maintain that this is due to the quantity and quality of the training. Hope this helps
Best regards
Martin A
My daughter has taken a lot longer to reach test pass status than many of her friends, and as such has had much more instructor and daddy input than her friends.
I will be watching her progress with interest, as I am very interested and not just from the daddy point of view.
She had also had at least twelve off road lessons as part of an IAM young driver scheme, from the age of 16, I was quite dissapointed that those didn't seem to help her much.
She is also undertaking pass plus, and will then do her IAM, before, hopefully, if all goes well, doing her blues and two's "ambulance style" training, as paramedic seems to be her chosen career path.
I will be watching her progress with interest, as I am very interested and not just from the daddy point of view.
She had also had at least twelve off road lessons as part of an IAM young driver scheme, from the age of 16, I was quite dissapointed that those didn't seem to help her much.
She is also undertaking pass plus, and will then do her IAM, before, hopefully, if all goes well, doing her blues and two's "ambulance style" training, as paramedic seems to be her chosen career path.
Deva Link said:
I was pretty confident that the younger one would pass first time. But then the tester was from out of the area and took her on an unfamiliar route - more than enough to flummox most learner drivers.
I'm not sure I'd be happy with a learner passing if something as simple as an unfamiliar road dropped their standard of driving enough to be instantly noticeable. What are they going to do once passed - stick to familiar routes within a mile of home for the rest of their lives?Gassing Station | Advanced Driving | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff