Britain to be ruled by a Belgian?
Discussion
Rumpy Pumpy as president of the COUNCIL is a faceless (read useless but damned expensive) bureaucrat (as is his 2IC labour Lady) who'll just keep propagating more bureaucracy.
I doubt if he's capable of being an EU President of the calibre of a US Pres... apart from which the EU is not a presidentially led "democracy" (I use that word with caution here) but a party led "democracy". He has as much power as the German President and who has heard of him outside Germany?
I doubt if he's capable of being an EU President of the calibre of a US Pres... apart from which the EU is not a presidentially led "democracy" (I use that word with caution here) but a party led "democracy". He has as much power as the German President and who has heard of him outside Germany?
rs1952 said:
AndrewW-G said:
We've not had the opportunity to vote for the person nominally in charge of the EU, end of democracy in Europe 
A glorified committee chairman doth not a person nominally in charge of Europe make 
By the way - did we, the English, get a say on Scottish and Welsh devolution?
Do we, the English, have laws imposed us by MPs who do not impose the same laws on their constituents in Scotland and Wales?
You don't have to look beyond this island to see political injustice, and the appointment of Rumpoy is nowhere near in the same league
JMGS4 said:
I doubt if he's capable of being an EU President of the calibre of a US Pres... apart from which the EU is not a presidentially led "democracy" (I use that word with caution here) but a party led "democracy". He has as much power as the German President and who has heard of him outside Germany?
Indeed. The systems are different. My point was though, that what is intended is not always what happens. Power evolves and changes over time. The Royal family\Congress lost it, the House of Commons\US President gained it. Systems adapt. And this post is vague, very vague...perhaps purposefully so? ( although maybe not maliciously)."It is unclear what practical relationship the post would have with other major posts"
edit.
I think with the right individual the EU COuncil Prez could command as much influence as he likes...Imagine if MAndy got it, we might get Revenge of th SIth!
Edited by Halb on Friday 20th November 10:34
Halb said:
JMGS4 said:
I doubt if he's capable of being an EU President of the calibre of a US Pres... apart from which the EU is not a presidentially led "democracy" (I use that word with caution here) but a party led "democracy". He has as much power as the German President and who has heard of him outside Germany?
Indeed. The systems are different. My point was though, that what is intended is not always what happens. Power evolves and changes over time. The Royal family\Congress lost it, the House of Commons\US President gained it. Systems adapt. And this post is vague, very vague...perhaps purposefully so? ( although maybe not maliciously)."It is unclear what practical relationship the post would have with other major posts"
edit.
I think with the right individual the EU COuncil Prez could command as much influence as he likes...Imagine if MAndy got it, we might get Revenge of th SIth!
Edited by Halb on Friday 20th November 10:34
Which is why it would have been bloody disasterous if someone full of ego like Blair got the position. A meek Belgian is just the person for the job.......but it won't always be so
Incredible Sulk said:
rs1952 said:
AndrewW-G said:
We've not had the opportunity to vote for the person nominally in charge of the EU, end of democracy in Europe
A glorified committee chairman doth not a person nominally in charge of Europe make By the way - did we, the English, get a say on Scottish and Welsh devolution?
Do we, the English, have laws imposed us by MPs who do not impose the same laws on their constituents in Scotland and Wales?
You don't have to look beyond this island to see political injustice, and the appointment of Rumpoy is nowhere near in the same league
It was Mary, Queen of Scots who was one of the first to propose a 'Union of the Crowns', and her descendant James VI (of Scotland) I of England who carried it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707
Please remove the three hundred year old chip off your shoulder
V88Dicky said:
England didn't 'Annex' Scotland. The Scots and English parliaments signed the act of Union to create the new country of Great Britain.
It was Mary, Queen of Scots who was one of the first to propose a 'Union of the Crowns', and her descendant James VI (of Scotland) I of England who carried it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707
Please remove the three hundred year old chip off your shoulder
I thought I'd leave the reply to someone else to widen the discussion It was Mary, Queen of Scots who was one of the first to propose a 'Union of the Crowns', and her descendant James VI (of Scotland) I of England who carried it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707
Please remove the three hundred year old chip off your shoulder
The points I was making were twofold, regarding the fact that our "democracy" on this island leaves something to be desired.
Firstly, if you are proposing to change a constitution following a referendum, you should ask all intersted parties who will be affected. As has been proven, since Scottish devolution the English have been disproportionately affected by Scottish MPs passing legislation on them that is not being imposed on their own constituents. This situation, known as the "West Lothian question," is fully known about by HMG but they won't do anything about it because, if they did, there would never be a Labour government again (the high percentages of Labour MPs that come from Scotland and Wales are the only reason they ever get elected - they wouldn't have a cat in Hell's chance of power from England alone)
Secondly, the Eurosceptics on here and elsewhere have been making great play about the fact that this here meeting-chairing president Rumpoy has not been elected. In this country, we do not elect the Cabinet or the Prime Minister, for example. We elect MPs who are then given those jobs by whoever the respective parties have elected to be Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition.
And we most certainly do not elect all the "Sir Humphreys" in Whitehall who, in truth, actually are the ones who run the country
V88Dicky said:
Incredible Sulk said:
rs1952 said:
AndrewW-G said:
We've not had the opportunity to vote for the person nominally in charge of the EU, end of democracy in Europe
A glorified committee chairman doth not a person nominally in charge of Europe make By the way - did we, the English, get a say on Scottish and Welsh devolution?
Do we, the English, have laws imposed us by MPs who do not impose the same laws on their constituents in Scotland and Wales?
You don't have to look beyond this island to see political injustice, and the appointment of Rumpoy is nowhere near in the same league
It was Mary, Queen of Scots who was one of the first to propose a 'Union of the Crowns', and her descendant James VI (of Scotland) I of England who carried it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707
Please remove the three hundred year old chip off your shoulder
"The Treaty could be considered unpopular in Scotland: Sir George Lockhart of Carnwath, the only member of the Scottish negotiating team against union, noted that `The whole nation appears against the Union' and even Sir John Clerk of Penicuik, an ardent pro-unionist and Union negotiator, observed that the treaty was `contrary to the inclinations of at least three-fourths of the Kingdom'. Public opinion against the Treaty as it passed through the Scottish Parliament was voiced through petitions from shires, burghs, presbyteries and parishes. The Convention of Royal Burghs also petitioned against the Union and not one petition in favour of an incorporating union was received by Parliament. On the day the treaty was signed, the carilloner in St Giles Cathedral, Edinburgh, rang the bells in the tune Why should I be so sad on my wedding day?[19] There were also massive protests in Edinburgh and several other Scottish burghs on the day it was passed by Parliament[citation needed], as threats of widespread civil unrest resulted in Parliament imposing martial law."
It was to all intents and purposes an annexation, dressed up as a 'Union', and was brought about to further the economic interests of the rich and powerful on both sides of the border. If you think I have a chip on my shoulder, you are probably right. I think many Scots still do. Bring on a referendum to return even more autonomy to Scotland!
Incredible Sulk said:
V88Dicky said:
Incredible Sulk said:
rs1952 said:
AndrewW-G said:
We've not had the opportunity to vote for the person nominally in charge of the EU, end of democracy in Europe
A glorified committee chairman doth not a person nominally in charge of Europe make By the way - did we, the English, get a say on Scottish and Welsh devolution?
Do we, the English, have laws imposed us by MPs who do not impose the same laws on their constituents in Scotland and Wales?
You don't have to look beyond this island to see political injustice, and the appointment of Rumpoy is nowhere near in the same league
It was Mary, Queen of Scots who was one of the first to propose a 'Union of the Crowns', and her descendant James VI (of Scotland) I of England who carried it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Union_1707
Please remove the three hundred year old chip off your shoulder
"The Treaty could be considered unpopular in Scotland: Sir George Lockhart of Carnwath, the only member of the Scottish negotiating team against union, noted that `The whole nation appears against the Union' and even Sir John Clerk of Penicuik, an ardent pro-unionist and Union negotiator, observed that the treaty was `contrary to the inclinations of at least three-fourths of the Kingdom'. Public opinion against the Treaty as it passed through the Scottish Parliament was voiced through petitions from shires, burghs, presbyteries and parishes. The Convention of Royal Burghs also petitioned against the Union and not one petition in favour of an incorporating union was received by Parliament. On the day the treaty was signed, the carilloner in St Giles Cathedral, Edinburgh, rang the bells in the tune Why should I be so sad on my wedding day?[19] There were also massive protests in Edinburgh and several other Scottish burghs on the day it was passed by Parliament[citation needed], as threats of widespread civil unrest resulted in Parliament imposing martial law."
It was to all intents and purposes an annexation, dressed up as a 'Union', and was brought about to further the economic interests of the rich and powerful on both sides of the border. If you think I have a chip on my shoulder, you are probably right. I think many Scots still do. Bring on a referendum to return even more autonomy to Scotland!
Incredible Sulk said:
It was to all intents and purposes an annexation, dressed up as a 'Union', and was brought about to further the economic interests of the rich and powerful on both sides of the border. If you think I have a chip on my shoulder, you are probably right. I think many Scots still do. Bring on a referendum to return even more autonomy to Scotland!
I would think that the reason one hasn't happened yet is because more autonomy would not be forthcoming. The SNP have won won over a majority that would seal independence.rs1952 said:
Secondly, the Eurosceptics on here and elsewhere have been making great play about the fact that this here meeting-chairing president Rumpoy has not been elected. In this country, we do not elect the Cabinet or the Prime Minister, for example. We elect MPs who are then given those jobs by whoever the respective parties have elected to be Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition.
WE elect the MP's who form the government, resulting in a diluted but still direct form of democracy, WE do not elect Belgian MP's, WE do not have any form of control over the "meeting-chairing president"AndrewW-G said:
rs1952 said:
Secondly, the Eurosceptics on here and elsewhere have been making great play about the fact that this here meeting-chairing president Rumpoy has not been elected. In this country, we do not elect the Cabinet or the Prime Minister, for example. We elect MPs who are then given those jobs by whoever the respective parties have elected to be Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition.
WE elect the MP's who form the government, resulting in a diluted but still direct form of democracy, WE do not elect Belgian MP's, WE do not have any form of control over the "meeting-chairing president"Edited by Incredible Sulk on Friday 20th November 16:25
Incredible Sulk said:
AndrewW-G said:
rs1952 said:
Secondly, the Eurosceptics on here and elsewhere have been making great play about the fact that this here meeting-chairing president Rumpoy has not been elected. In this country, we do not elect the Cabinet or the Prime Minister, for example. We elect MPs who are then given those jobs by whoever the respective parties have elected to be Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition.
WE elect the MP's who form the government, resulting in a diluted but still direct form of democracy, WE do not elect Belgian MP's, WE do not have any form of control over the "meeting-chairing president"Edited by Incredible Sulk on Friday 20th November 16:25
esselte said:
Incredible Sulk said:
AndrewW-G said:
rs1952 said:
Secondly, the Eurosceptics on here and elsewhere have been making great play about the fact that this here meeting-chairing president Rumpoy has not been elected. In this country, we do not elect the Cabinet or the Prime Minister, for example. We elect MPs who are then given those jobs by whoever the respective parties have elected to be Prime Minister or Leader of the Opposition.
WE elect the MP's who form the government, resulting in a diluted but still direct form of democracy, WE do not elect Belgian MP's, WE do not have any form of control over the "meeting-chairing president"Edited by Incredible Sulk on Friday 20th November 16:25
You had a say at the last election, A government was voted in (whether or not you like the government you got is not pertinent - you had a say in its election)
The government you got after the last election then elected Gordo Prime Minister (whether or not you like it is not pertinent - elected MPs had a say in him getting the job)
Gordo then goes to Brussels as one of 27 EU leaders, and between them they argued the toss behind closed doors (as every government does, incidentally), and elected Rumpoy the Walloon as a committee chairman.
Not a flawless system by any means, but we're not exactly talking a coup-d'etat here
rs1952 said:
Incredible Sulk said:
Bring on a referendum to return even more autonomy to Scotland!
Are you the Billy Connolly lookalike in the TV series "Absolutely" who regularly rode his push bike up to the English border, shouted "b
ds!!!" and then rode back again? 
Incredible Sulk said:
rs1952 said:
Incredible Sulk said:
Bring on a referendum to return even more autonomy to Scotland!
Are you the Billy Connolly lookalike in the TV series "Absolutely" who regularly rode his push bike up to the English border, shouted "bds!!!" and then rode back again? The last time I checked, Middlesex was not in Scotland
You don't think much of the English, yet you live amongst us
Mind you, can't say I blame you - cold wet God-forsaken tundra that there is north of the border. The Clan chiefs sussed that out in 1707 and all moved to Beglravia
rs1952 said:
Incredible Sulk said:
rs1952 said:
Incredible Sulk said:
Bring on a referendum to return even more autonomy to Scotland!
Are you the Billy Connolly lookalike in the TV series "Absolutely" who regularly rode his push bike up to the English border, shouted "bds!!!" and then rode back again? The last time I checked, Middlesex was not in Scotland
You don't think much of the English, yet you live amongst us
Mind you, can't say I blame you - cold wet God-forsaken tundra that there is north of the border. The Clan chiefs sussed that out in 1707 and all moved to Beglravia
I like to think though that I'll be moving back home when I can afford to retire. Which isn't likely to be soon, thanks to Winky and Eyebrows.
Edited by Incredible Sulk on Saturday 21st November 10:02
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