Vettel voted Number 1 of 2009 by Teams

[Forbes82]

TJD2003 said:

Whats to be surprised about.

Any team manager would give his eye teeth for Vettel, young, talented, aggressive, mechanical etc etc

They are going to rate the one they want the best and ignore the mistakes which can be ironed out.

Seems to be better controlling the dummy spitting to.

Regards
TJ

Even if that is the case i think most would take Hamilton over Vettel, he has all the things you've listed, and is more proven too.

[AndrewW-G]

Interesting to see that the team bosses rate both Vettel and Button higher than they do hamilton

[TJD2003]

Yep but Lewis is an unknown quantity at any other team than Mclaren, hes been with them so long he would find it difficult to drive anything else perhaps, how would he react to a car that needed input from him to get up the grid.

He would also be a lot more expensive than Vettel.

Vettel is the number one choice replacement driver for any team in my opinion.

Regards
TJ

[NewMetalSystem]

I thought Mark Hughes top 10 was the worst:

1. Hamilton
2. Button
3. Vettel
4. Webber
5. Kubica
6. Alonso
7. Massa
8. Raikkonen
9. Barrichello
10. Rosberg

Kubica, Alonso and Massa were all way out of position. I wouldn't have placed any of them in mine. Alonso didn't excell consistently in a horrific car, Kubica was out-paced by Heidfeld for the best part of the year, and Massa is only ranked 7th out of sympathy and what-might-have-beens.
Rosberg deserved to be higher. He effectively ended Nakajima's career, and put the Williams where it shouldn't have been. Barrichello took a while to settle in to the year, but he proved everybody wrong, won two races and had the edge over Jenson in the final half of the season. Raikkonen picked up Ferrari and carried them to 4th place in the constructors virtually on his own. He gave the team a much needed lift in the aftermath of Massa's crash, and deserves to break the top 5 above. If I had it my way:

1. Button.
2. Vettel.
3. Hamilton.
4. Raikkonen.
5. Barrichello.

[HAZZAGTR]

WHERES KOBYASHI?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by HAZZAGTR on Saturday 21st November 13:46

[heebeegeetee]

Er, I've just posted on another thread:

>>I can remember Fisichella being voted 'the drivers champion' in a similar poll.

I can also remember Button being voted as the driver who had made the fewest mistakes by a group of German racing journalists. Button had just completed his first season. Someone has mentioned consistency on one of these threads. :smile:

I'm amazed to see Vettel be voted as the best by team owners. For me Seb made far too many mistakes, broke under pressure far too many times and did not put his ordinary team mate away in anything like the fashion i had predicted. Being led in the points by Webber was ridiculous, I thought.<<

[dom180]

heebeegeetee said:

Er, I've just posted on another thread:

>>I can remember Fisichella being voted 'the drivers champion' in a similar poll.

<<

That's because on his day, he could be a brilliant driver - think Spa 2009 (one of the best drives of the year by anyone imho) or 2001 at Benetton when he made Button look like a plodder or 2004 when he more than held his own against Massa.

He wasn't that much slower than Alonso at Renault but he did seem to loose heart during his Renault/Alonso years (but then given Alonso's fit in the team/Flavio how equal were the two seats anyway... Edit: in order for Fisi to succeed over Alonso then, he'd probably have needed to be significantly quicker than Alonso - being just about there on a good day, and ever so slightly slower but lazier was never going to cut it....)

Edited by dom180 on Saturday 21st November 18:08

[heebeegeetee]

dom180 said:

heebeegeetee said:

Er, I've just posted on another thread:

>>I can remember Fisichella being voted 'the drivers champion' in a similar poll.

<<

That's because on his day, he could be a brilliant driver - think Spa 2009 (one of the best drives of the year by anyone imho) or 2001 at Benetton when he made Button look like a plodder or 2004 when he more than held his own against Massa.

He wasn't that much slower than Alonso at Renault but he did seem to loose heart during his Renault/Alonso years (but then given Alonso's fit in the team/Flavio how equal were the two seats anyway... Edit: in order for Fisi to succeed over Alonso then, he'd probably have needed to be significantly quicker than Alonso - being just about there on a good day, and ever so slightly slower but lazier was never going to cut it....)

No, i think with hindsight the drivers were proved to be plain wrong, and I think the team principles are wrong about Vettel this year. Seb may well indeed go on to be great, but i think he was bested this year, by Button, Hamilton and to some degree Webber. Vettel hasn't at all matched his promise this year, imo. Australia, Turkey, Monza and Brazil were bad moments and those are too many, and those are just the ones off the top of my head.

If he was as good as Hamilton then i think he should have had a good run of podiums this season. He easily had the equipment but didn't manage a run of podiums of any sort.

[dom180]

heebeegeetee said:

dom180 said:

heebeegeetee said:

Er, I've just posted on another thread:

>>I can remember Fisichella being voted 'the drivers champion' in a similar poll.

<<

That's because on his day, he could be a brilliant driver - think Spa 2009 (one of the best drives of the year by anyone imho) or 2001 at Benetton when he made Button look like a plodder or 2004 when he more than held his own against Massa.

He wasn't that much slower than Alonso at Renault but he did seem to loose heart during his Renault/Alonso years (but then given Alonso's fit in the team/Flavio how equal were the two seats anyway... Edit: in order for Fisi to succeed over Alonso then, he'd probably have needed to be significantly quicker than Alonso - being just about there on a good day, and ever so slightly slower but lazier was never going to cut it....)

No, i think with hindsight the drivers were proved to be plain wrong, and I think the team principles are wrong about Vettel this year. Seb may well indeed go on to be great, but i think he was bested this year, by Button, Hamilton and to some degree Webber. Vettel hasn't at all matched his promise this year, imo. Australia, Turkey, Monza and Brazil were bad moments and those are too many, and those are just the ones off the top of my head.

If he was as good as Hamilton then i think he should have had a good run of podiums this season. He easily had the equipment but didn't manage a run of podiums of any sort.

In my book Brawn benefited from a longer period of dominance than Redbull did - luckily in that form it suited Button rather than Rubens... The Redbull was competitive but never benefited from as great a dominance over the other cars for as long a period as the Brawn benefited, constrained as it was by rear tyre wear and engine performance on the faster circuits.

Sure Vettel made mistakes although a couple were racing incidents and could well have won the championship but it would have been a bigger feat in my view - Jenson either made mistakes or was too limited in not extracting 100% from the Brawn in the second half of the year - you could also argue that Webber was a more competitive team mate than Rubens was.

Edited by dom180 on Saturday 21st November 20:02

[Park'O]

spend said:

Kind of interesting that Alonso is rated so lowly if it is purely based on driver performance.

..and note that they rated Sutil above Glock & Heidfield, I still think he is the dark horse for the last Merc seat.

I agree with Alonso comment, but i'd of thought Hamilton would of just pip'd it, having a 1 in 3 win ratio over the last 8 races...

[Mr V]

Project 644 said:

I'm surprised Rosberg isn't in the 10. He consistently outperformed the car this year.

Totally agree. I rate him quite highly. I think he's a great driver and hope he gets a good car next year so we can see how good he really is. I think Sutil done really well too. I'm surprised Kubica was higher than Hiedfield, i think Heidfield out performed Kubica in the second part of the season when they were starting to pick up points.

Can't wait for next season!

[Park'O]

TJD2003 said:

Yep but Lewis is an unknown quantity at any other team than Mclaren, hes been with them so long he would find it difficult to drive anything else perhaps, how would he react to a car that needed input from him to get up the grid.

He would also be a lot more expensive than Vettel.

Vettel is the number one choice replacement driver for any team in my opinion.

Regards
TJ

Big fat negative! Lew Ham could probably lap a double decker bus around a circuit, faster than Vettel or snotty Button could an F1 car,

Yes, he's that good! Lol!

[Park'O]

AndrewW-G said:

Interesting to see that the team bosses rate both Vettel and Button higher than they do hamilton

I know, its a fooking mockery!

[llewop]

Park'O said:

twaddle

oh dear

[Jungles]

heebeegeetee said:

did not put his ordinary team mate away in anything like the fashion i had predicted.

I'd hardly call Webber "ordinary". He has outperformed all of his previous young team-mates: Yoong, Wilson, Pizzonia, Davidson, Klien, and Rosberg; and been comparable with Heidfeld and Coulthard.

As Button said in a post-season interview, Vettel's inexperience cost him the championship. He will be a stronger driver next season, so your prediction may very well come true.

Edited by Jungles on Saturday 21st November 23:25

[heebeegeetee]

dom180 said:

1. In my book Brawn benefited from a longer period of dominance than Redbull did

2. you could also argue that Webber was a more competitive team mate than Rubens was.

1. True, but there are 3 podium spots and only 2 Brawns. Seb couldn't string a run of top 4 placings though.

2. You would have to argue it though.

Jungles said:

Yoong, Wilson, Pizzonia, Davidson, Klien, and Rosberg; and been comparable with Heidfeld and Coulthard.

Not exactly a top list of names that though, is it? I take my at off to Mark though, he raised his game big time.

[Jungles]

Well not the young guys (Klien, etc.), but I rate Heidfeld and Coulthard highly, and your mileage may vary. Aside from his ghastly luck, I think Webber is at least comparable to Button in terms of skill, and both have oodles more experience than Vettel.

[heebeegeetee]

Jungles said:

Aside from his ghastly luck, I think Webber is at least comparable to Button in terms of skill,

Ok, but i certainly don't. I think you can clearly see from practically all in-car footage that Button has a unique (and entirely natural, in that he wasn't taught it) driving style/ability.

Webber's a journeyman. Nice guy, handy driver at times, better than the Ralfs and Jarnos out there, but that ain't saying much and he certainly ain't no wdc material.

I don't think luck plays any part and indeed i wasn't even aware Webber had suffered any 'bad luck'.

Button certainly hasn't, i think it's more that he's had the worst-managed career i've ever known in F1. Hope the move to McL isn't more of it.

[dom180]

heebeegeetee said:

dom180 said:

1. In my book Brawn benefited from a longer period of dominance than Redbull did

2. you could also argue that Webber was a more competitive team mate than Rubens was.

1. True, but there are 3 podium spots and only 2 Brawns. Seb couldn't string a run of top 4 placings though.

2. You would have to argue it though.

Jungles said:

Yoong, Wilson, Pizzonia, Davidson, Klien, and Rosberg; and been comparable with Heidfeld and Coulthard.

Not exactly a top list of names that though, is it? I take my at off to Mark though, he raised his game big time.

1. The Red Bull wasn't as good a package as the Brawn - a narrower sweet spot and far less powerful engine, limiting its setup.

2. Webber decimated DC in the same way Haikkonen and Raikkonen did - this year recovering from a broken leg and disadvantaged by the weight/ballast rules you should cut him a little slack - and back in Nico's debut year he made Nico look exactly like Rosberg's team mate looked this year...

We'll see the best of Mark next year.

[heebeegeetee]

dom180 said:

1. The Red Bull wasn't as good a package as the Brawn - a narrower sweet spot and far less powerful engine, limiting its setup.

2. Webber decimated DC in the same way Haikkonen and Raikkonen did - this year recovering from a broken leg and disadvantaged by the weight/ballast rules you should cut him a little slack - and back in Nico's debut year he made Nico look exactly like Rosberg's team mate looked this year...

We'll see the best of Mark next year.

1. After Turkey, I have no idea how you could know this without driving the cars. Re the engine, at Abu Dhabi with the longest straight, I didn't see Jenson powering past Mark.

2. Mark has driven better this year than ever before, imo. We'll have to see if he can up his game again.