First Astute Class Submarine sailed today
Discussion
Mr_B said:
So for the £1.2bn cost, have we got the very best, no comprimise, world class most kick arse sub out there ?
On paper, for the purposes they have been designed for, pretty much. The astute class is a hugely capable submarine. Coupled with the skill level of the personnel on board, we have an outstanding machine.SMAK said:
Coupled with the skill level of the personnel on board, we have an outstanding machine.
Sooo , best trained , worst equipped as normal.
SK
Though I'm inclined to agree with that, regarding a lot of the military; in this case, we have excellent equipment. Subject to change, of course - as long as that fat sSooo , best trained , worst equipped as normal.
SK
t stays in power.Can't say too much but it does have some very cool toys. Have a look here for some indication of the improvements http://www.largeassociates.com/Warship05%28LowRes%...
Is it any good? Personally, I'll wait to see how it performs operationally.
Because of its construction method - the first of its type - it's as big as an old bomber. This is a big disadvantage in what will now probably be it's primary role - SPECOPs and Lobbing TLAMs. It's very large for littoral ops.
Is it any good? Personally, I'll wait to see how it performs operationally.
Because of its construction method - the first of its type - it's as big as an old bomber. This is a big disadvantage in what will now probably be it's primary role - SPECOPs and Lobbing TLAMs. It's very large for littoral ops.
Papoo said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Papoo said:
Hardly classified: they're listed as being features of Astute on Wikipedia and/or the Royal Navy website...
Thanks for your 'sarcasm' - it does you SO proud.
I take it you are an expert in sub ops?
I probably should have posted extended range sub harpoon and improved passive arrays.
Firstly the increase in littoral ops has meant that, despite the lack of a diesel sub replacement for the 'O' boats, where a diesel sub is better placed than a nuclear boat, nuc's are forced to work inshore where a longer range land attack missile becomes of benefit.
Secondly I am guessing you have neither been a submariner nor sub hunter.
Subs with towed arrays, or, indeed, 'Tail Ships' (such as certain Type 22s and Type 23s) have been historically been good at broadband tracking but poor at 'fixing' a target. The upshot being they could get a target bearing but not a 'fix', hence the 'Air-Sub' or 'Air-Tail ship' tactics.
Indeed, from an air point of view the NATO systems have historically concentrated on 'noisy' Soviet boats - the best systems being the passive 'BARRA' buoy (Australian) or CAMBS buoy (UK) in its passive role which far out-performed the (US) DIFAR buoy.
Whereas the Soviets, because they were forced to hunt quiet targets such as the RN T boats or US 688 boats were much better at narrowband tracking.
I am guessing that any towed array fitted to the Astute class subs will have taken advantage of these 'improvements'.
Basically, it's exactly the same but new and improved. Well done for pointing that out. We'd have had a really hard time guessing that would be the case.
Don't take my word for it, yours is gospel, Sweetcheeks.
ETA; Ginetta, if you look really closely, you'll notice (hopefully) one or two (out of a maximum of two) things:
1) When you quoted me, I didn't say that.
2) There is no sarcasm in my previous message. Nor in the message posted by the chap you decided to quote.
Carry on.
Edited by Papoo on Wednesday 18th November 22:26
Ginetta Girl 0
It will take an extra time handball to save this one I think
raf_gti said:
Papoo said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Papoo said:
Hardly classified: they're listed as being features of Astute on Wikipedia and/or the Royal Navy website...
Thanks for your 'sarcasm' - it does you SO proud.
I take it you are an expert in sub ops?
I probably should have posted extended range sub harpoon and improved passive arrays.
Firstly the increase in littoral ops has meant that, despite the lack of a diesel sub replacement for the 'O' boats, where a diesel sub is better placed than a nuclear boat, nuc's are forced to work inshore where a longer range land attack missile becomes of benefit.
Secondly I am guessing you have neither been a submariner nor sub hunter.
Subs with towed arrays, or, indeed, 'Tail Ships' (such as certain Type 22s and Type 23s) have been historically been good at broadband tracking but poor at 'fixing' a target. The upshot being they could get a target bearing but not a 'fix', hence the 'Air-Sub' or 'Air-Tail ship' tactics.
Indeed, from an air point of view the NATO systems have historically concentrated on 'noisy' Soviet boats - the best systems being the passive 'BARRA' buoy (Australian) or CAMBS buoy (UK) in its passive role which far out-performed the (US) DIFAR buoy.
Whereas the Soviets, because they were forced to hunt quiet targets such as the RN T boats or US 688 boats were much better at narrowband tracking.
I am guessing that any towed array fitted to the Astute class subs will have taken advantage of these 'improvements'.
Basically, it's exactly the same but new and improved. Well done for pointing that out. We'd have had a really hard time guessing that would be the case.
Don't take my word for it, yours is gospel, Sweetcheeks.
ETA; Ginetta, if you look really closely, you'll notice (hopefully) one or two (out of a maximum of two) things:
1) When you quoted me, I didn't say that.
2) There is no sarcasm in my previous message. Nor in the message posted by the chap you decided to quote.
Carry on.
Edited by Papoo on Wednesday 18th November 22:26
Ginetta Girl 0
It will take an extra time handball to save this one I think
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
HereBeMonsters said:
Reads like a cut and paste job to me.
Wrong.Assumption is the Mother of all screw ups.
Sometimes you just can't win...
Papoo said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Secondly I am guessing you have neither been a submariner nor sub hunter.
I think 20+ years as an Officer in the RN qualifies me as reasonably 'astute' (see what I did there?) with submarine operations. Not to mention 12 of those specifically as a sub hunter, but thank you kindly for your concern.
SMAK said:
So for the £1.2bn cost, have we got the very best, no comprimise, world class most kick arse sub out there ?
Probably , well mayby , well they should work , well at least until the next round of defence cuts , then we sell them to the Canadians for a couple of $$$ to keep our old U boats company. :-(
Yes, sell to us over here in Canada. BUT this time you have to deliver them with your own crews incase there is a fire like last time..Probably , well mayby , well they should work , well at least until the next round of defence cuts , then we sell them to the Canadians for a couple of $$$ to keep our old U boats company. :-(
V8TVR1978 said:
SMAK said:
So for the £1.2bn cost, have we got the very best, no comprimise, world class most kick arse sub out there ?
Probably , well mayby , well they should work , well at least until the next round of defence cuts , then we sell them to the Canadians for a couple of $$$ to keep our old U boats company. :-(
Yes, sell to us over here in Canada. BUT this time you have to deliver them with your own crews incase there is a fire like last time..Probably , well mayby , well they should work , well at least until the next round of defence cuts , then we sell them to the Canadians for a couple of $$$ to keep our old U boats company. :-(
There was a wiring fire for one thing with a crew death if I remember correctly and can't remember the other flaws. Last time I was in Halifax the sub in question was sitting at jetty waiting for the bid to come in from the razor blade factory. But then again we are talking about the Canadian Navy (navy brat here) so leaving a hatch open on a sub is quite believable..
Edited by V8TVR1978 on Saturday 21st November 21:34
V8TVR1978 said:
There was a wiring fire for one thing with a crew death if I remember correctly and can't remember the other flaws. Last time I was in Halifax the sub in question was sitting at jetty waiting for the bid to come in from the razor blade factory.
Chaps I used to work with claimed it was operator error, i.e. they were unfamiliar with the plant and doing stuff they shouldn't have. That said it was speculation at the time of the incident.The upholder class was a s
t design though by all accounts - there was a litany of issues throughout its design history - torpedo doors that were held shut against against sea water pressure counter to conventional wisdom being just one.I wasn't sure that the cause of the accident was in the public domain, which is why I didn't go into any detail, but having found the following info on Wikipedia I guess I needn't have worried:
On 5 October, Chicoutimi was apparently surfaced and running through heavy seas 100 miles (160 km) north-west of County Mayo, Ireland. Both hatches in the bridge fin lockout chamber were left open and an estimated 2,000 litres of seawater entered the vessel.
The seawater created electrical shorting and a fire. Nine crewmembers were affected by smoke inhalation and the ship was left drifting without power in heavy seas. Three of these crew members were airlifted to Sligo General Hospital in the Republic of Ireland the next day, with one listed in 'critical' condition. Later, on 6 October, Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin confirmed that one of the Chicoutimi's crew, Lieutenant Chris Saunders, died in transit to hospital.
On 5 October, Chicoutimi was apparently surfaced and running through heavy seas 100 miles (160 km) north-west of County Mayo, Ireland. Both hatches in the bridge fin lockout chamber were left open and an estimated 2,000 litres of seawater entered the vessel.
The seawater created electrical shorting and a fire. Nine crewmembers were affected by smoke inhalation and the ship was left drifting without power in heavy seas. Three of these crew members were airlifted to Sligo General Hospital in the Republic of Ireland the next day, with one listed in 'critical' condition. Later, on 6 October, Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin confirmed that one of the Chicoutimi's crew, Lieutenant Chris Saunders, died in transit to hospital.
S7Paul said:
I wasn't sure that the cause of the accident was in the public domain, which is why I didn't go into any detail, but having found the following info on Wikipedia I guess I needn't have worried:
On 5 October, Chicoutimi was apparently surfaced and running through heavy seas 100 miles (160 km) north-west of County Mayo, Ireland. Both hatches in the bridge fin lockout chamber were left open and an estimated 2,000 litres of seawater entered the vessel.
The seawater created electrical shorting and a fire. Nine crewmembers were affected by smoke inhalation and the ship was left drifting without power in heavy seas. Three of these crew members were airlifted to Sligo General Hospital in the Republic of Ireland the next day, with one listed in 'critical' condition. Later, on 6 October, Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin confirmed that one of the Chicoutimi's crew, Lieutenant Chris Saunders, died in transit to hospital.
I didn't think the "accident" results were public domain either. Do remember trying to follow that "incident" being brought up in a military family but must have missed when it went public. 2000 litres (450gallons) of seawater could cause lots of problems for a very long time and that must be why I saw that sub docked by itself waiting for the razor blade man. Just found info confirming the salt water mishap and that the sub was moved from Halifax to Victoria by barge in 09 for a 1.5 billion dollar 2 year repair and the government wasn't releasing the cost of the move.On 5 October, Chicoutimi was apparently surfaced and running through heavy seas 100 miles (160 km) north-west of County Mayo, Ireland. Both hatches in the bridge fin lockout chamber were left open and an estimated 2,000 litres of seawater entered the vessel.
The seawater created electrical shorting and a fire. Nine crewmembers were affected by smoke inhalation and the ship was left drifting without power in heavy seas. Three of these crew members were airlifted to Sligo General Hospital in the Republic of Ireland the next day, with one listed in 'critical' condition. Later, on 6 October, Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin confirmed that one of the Chicoutimi's crew, Lieutenant Chris Saunders, died in transit to hospital.
V8TVR1978 said:
S7Paul said:
I wasn't sure that the cause of the accident was in the public domain, which is why I didn't go into any detail, but having found the following info on Wikipedia I guess I needn't have worried:
On 5 October, Chicoutimi was apparently surfaced and running through heavy seas 100 miles (160 km) north-west of County Mayo, Ireland. Both hatches in the bridge fin lockout chamber were left open and an estimated 2,000 litres of seawater entered the vessel.
The seawater created electrical shorting and a fire. Nine crewmembers were affected by smoke inhalation and the ship was left drifting without power in heavy seas. Three of these crew members were airlifted to Sligo General Hospital in the Republic of Ireland the next day, with one listed in 'critical' condition. Later, on 6 October, Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin confirmed that one of the Chicoutimi's crew, Lieutenant Chris Saunders, died in transit to hospital.
I didn't think the "accident" results were public domain either. Do remember trying to follow that "incident" being brought up in a military family but must have missed when it went public. 2000 litres (450gallons) of seawater could cause lots of problems for a very long time and that must be why I saw that sub docked by itself waiting for the razor blade man. Just found info confirming the salt water mishap and that the sub was moved from Halifax to Victoria by barge in 09 for a 1.5 billion dollar 2 year repair and the government wasn't releasing the cost of the move.On 5 October, Chicoutimi was apparently surfaced and running through heavy seas 100 miles (160 km) north-west of County Mayo, Ireland. Both hatches in the bridge fin lockout chamber were left open and an estimated 2,000 litres of seawater entered the vessel.
The seawater created electrical shorting and a fire. Nine crewmembers were affected by smoke inhalation and the ship was left drifting without power in heavy seas. Three of these crew members were airlifted to Sligo General Hospital in the Republic of Ireland the next day, with one listed in 'critical' condition. Later, on 6 October, Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin confirmed that one of the Chicoutimi's crew, Lieutenant Chris Saunders, died in transit to hospital.
HRG said:
Papoo said:
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
Secondly I am guessing you have neither been a submariner nor sub hunter.
I think 20+ years as an Officer in the RN qualifies me as reasonably 'astute' (see what I did there?) with submarine operations. Not to mention 12 of those specifically as a sub hunter, but thank you kindly for your concern.
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