RAF to scrap using planes

[Mr Dave]

plasticpig said:

Perhaps they are forward looking and reckon by 2025 that manned aircraft will be redundant. UAV's are the future.

Just like in the 1950's then. By 1960 manned aircraft were to be redundant. Missiles were the future.

Shame about the Falklands, Iraq, Iraq again, Belieze, The whole cold war, Balkans, Lebanon...

I also don't like to reckon the chances of a Predator up against an R-73. Georgia lost a few UAVs to the Russians I believe?

The politicians are only interested in the next three years and are repeating the mistakes that have been made in the past which have led to greater spending down the line and reliance on the United states. Sad truth of the matter is that the UK is now a joke on the world stage and it is only getting worse.

[rhinochopig]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Having been a (low level) budget holder, the way the MOD does it's finances amazes me.

Firstly, when bidding for a budget you are not allowed to factor in inflation.

Secondly, if at the end of the FY you have underspent your budget it will be capped at that level for the next FY. The result of this is that at the beginning of the FY budget holders are loathe to spend and towards the end of the FY they realise they are going to underspend so blow the budget on pointless things like resurfacing Mess car-parks, fitting new heating systems to MQs that have serviceable systems, fitting new (non double glazed )windows to MQs.

Hence, at certain levels, overspend is seen as a good thing because it means no loss of budget.

The upshot is that spending on important things gets cut back, in a sense of 'save today, spend tomorrow'. The closure and then re-opening of RAF Scampton being a good example.

You forgot the would, should, could bks of bidding. :mental:

[Bosshogg76]

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

spares program for the Typhoon

Thw what?

edited to make easier reading.

[plasticpig]

Mr Dave said:

plasticpig said:

Perhaps they are forward looking and reckon by 2025 that manned aircraft will be redundant. UAV's are the future.

Just like in the 1950's then. By 1960 manned aircraft were to be redundant. Missiles were the future.

Shame about the Falklands, Iraq, Iraq again, Belieze, The whole cold war, Balkans, Lebanon...

I also don't like to reckon the chances of a Predator up against an R-73. Georgia lost a few UAVs to the Russians I believe?

The politicians are only interested in the next three years and are repeating the mistakes that have been made in the past which have led to greater spending down the line and reliance on the United states. Sad truth of the matter is that the UK is now a joke on the world stage and it is only getting worse.

Both the Predator and Warrior UAV's can carry Stinger's. Not sure how much an SU-35 costs but a Predator is $4.5m. It would seem to me you could have at least 10 Predator's per SU-35 in terms of cost. Politcally UAV's are great news on several front's. Cheaper unit cost than a manned aircraft with the added bonus that you don't have to write letters to grieving relatives when one is shot down.

[mybrainhurts]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Firstly, when bidding for a budget you are not allowed to factor in inflation.

Secondly, if at the end of the FY you have underspent your budget it will be capped at that level for the next FY. The result of this is that at the beginning of the FY budget holders are loathe to spend and towards the end of the FY they realise they are going to underspend so blow the budget on pointless things like resurfacing Mess car-parks, fitting new heating systems to MQs that have serviceable systems, fitting new (non double glazed )windows to MQs.

This is rife throughout local and national government. The money wasted must be mouth watering. How any government can let this continue, and claim to be competent, is beyond me...

[mybrainhurts]

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

spares program for the Typhoon

Thw what?

edited to make easier reading.

If you stick me on the end of program, you will have a word...

[Bosshogg76]

mybrainhurts said:

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

spares program for the Typhoon

Thw what?

edited to make easier reading.

If you stick me on the end of program, you will have a word...

Ah the stitched up by my American spell checker, curses. (well that and such a poor grasp of the English language)

edited to add, what is "Thw"

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Wednesday 18th November 17:06

[Taffer]

mybrainhurts said:

How will we cope if Switzerland attacks with Hunters...?

The Hunters were retired in 1994 as they were a bit long in the tooth, beautiful though they were. The Swiss Air Force now operates the Hornet, and has been considering buying Super Hornets as well. Considering the terrain they train in (search for 'Swiss Air Force in Youtube'), I imagine they are a decent fighting force, but quantity and lack of operational experience would count against them.

Mind you, with all that Nazi gold stashed away they could probably buy UK plc if they wanted to (and McWinky would probably let them), avoiding the need for a fight!

[mybrainhurts]

Taffer said:

mybrainhurts said:

How will we cope if Switzerland attacks with Hunters...?

The Hunters were retired in 1994 as they were a bit long in the tooth, beautiful though they were. The Swiss Air Force now operates the Hornet, and has been considering buying Super Hornets as well. Considering the terrain they train in (search for 'Swiss Air Force in Youtube'), I imagine they are a decent fighting force, but quantity and lack of operational experience would count against them.

Mind you, with all that Nazi gold stashed away they could probably buy UK plc if they wanted to (and McWinky would probably let them), avoiding the need for a fight!

Yes, yes, but what if they attack with Hunters...?

We'll have to get these out of mothballs ----->

[raf_gti]

Bosshogg76 said:

mybrainhurts said:

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

spares program for the Typhoon

Thw what?

edited to make easier reading.

If you stick me on the end of program, you will have a word...

Ah the stitched up by my American spell checker, curses. (well that and such a poor grasp of the English language)

edited to add, what is "Thw"

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Wednesday 18th November 17:06

Whoops!

I didn't even notice the spelling mistake, my post was more aimed at poking fun at the spares programme or lack off!

[Bosshogg76]

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

mybrainhurts said:

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

spares program for the Typhoon

Thw what?

edited to make easier reading.

If you stick me on the end of program, you will have a word...

Ah the stitched up by my American spell checker, curses. (well that and such a poor grasp of the English language)

edited to add, what is "Thw"

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Wednesday 18th November 17:06

Whoops!

I didn't even notice the spelling mistake, my post was more aimed at poking fun at the spares programme or lack off!

Could be fun when 6 stands up, up here. Mind you I'll probably posted to something helicoptery by then and avoid the whole thing

[raf_gti]

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

mybrainhurts said:

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

spares program for the Typhoon

Thw what?

edited to make easier reading.

If you stick me on the end of program, you will have a word...

Ah the stitched up by my American spell checker, curses. (well that and such a poor grasp of the English language)

edited to add, what is "Thw"

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Wednesday 18th November 17:06

Whoops!

I didn't even notice the spelling mistake, my post was more aimed at poking fun at the spares programme or lack off!

Could be fun when 6 stands up, up here. Mind you I'll probably posted to something helicoptery by then and avoid the whole thing

It still amazes me how they have managed to order all the aircraft but without the required spares package.

Still, as long as all the civvies at BAe Coningsby are happy and sat around sending emails to each other all day all is well

[Bosshogg76]

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

mybrainhurts said:

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

spares program for the Typhoon

Thw what?

edited to make easier reading.

If you stick me on the end of program, you will have a word...

Ah the stitched up by my American spell checker, curses. (well that and such a poor grasp of the English language)

edited to add, what is "Thw"

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Wednesday 18th November 17:06

Whoops!

I didn't even notice the spelling mistake, my post was more aimed at poking fun at the spares programme or lack off!

Could be fun when 6 stands up, up here. Mind you I'll probably posted to something helicoptery by then and avoid the whole thing

It still amazes me how they have managed to order all the aircraft but without the required spares package.

Still, as long as all the civvies at BAe Coningsby are happy and sat around sending emails to each other all day all is well

come on does it?? It's like the typical Friday afternoon RTI, check all bolts in a certain area and replace those that fail the torque test. Before you know it there's a huge flap as every jet in the fleet fails, and there are only 2 bolts in the entire RAF and those are in Mount Pleasant

Yep heard about the civvies, my mate got posted into the tyre bay, being a SNEC he's not having fun with British waste of space.

Still enough about work, looks like a nice pug you have there. I have one in rather less than pristine condition though the twin carbs and full Magnex make it a laugh.

[raf_gti]

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

mybrainhurts said:

Bosshogg76 said:

raf_gti said:

Bosshogg76 said:

spares program for the Typhoon

Thw what?

edited to make easier reading.

If you stick me on the end of program, you will have a word...

Ah the stitched up by my American spell checker, curses. (well that and such a poor grasp of the English language)

edited to add, what is "Thw"

Edited by Bosshogg76 on Wednesday 18th November 17:06

Whoops!

I didn't even notice the spelling mistake, my post was more aimed at poking fun at the spares programme or lack off!

Could be fun when 6 stands up, up here. Mind you I'll probably posted to something helicoptery by then and avoid the whole thing

It still amazes me how they have managed to order all the aircraft but without the required spares package.

Still, as long as all the civvies at BAe Coningsby are happy and sat around sending emails to each other all day all is well

come on does it?? It's like the typical Friday afternoon RTI, check all bolts in a certain area and replace those that fail the torque test. Before you know it there's a huge flap as every jet in the fleet fails, and there are only 2 bolts in the entire RAF and those are in Mount Pleasant

Yep heard about the civvies, my mate got posted into the tyre bay, being a SNEC he's not having fun with British waste of space.

Still enough about work, looks like a nice pug you have there. I have one in rather less than pristine condition though the twin carbs and full Magnex make it a laugh.

Pug is past tense now I'm afriad, I got rid of it a few months due to lack of use, gaying it up in a Puma at the moment

[Talksteer]

Mr Dave said:

plasticpig said:

Perhaps they are forward looking and reckon by 2025 that manned aircraft will be redundant. UAV's are the future.

Just like in the 1950's then. By 1960 manned aircraft were to be redundant. Missiles were the future.

Shame about the Falklands, Iraq, Iraq again, Belieze, The whole cold war, Balkans, Lebanon...

I also don't like to reckon the chances of a Predator up against an R-73. Georgia lost a few UAVs to the Russians I believe?

And the US lost a Predator in armed combat against a Mig25, the Predator did at least fire its own missile back (it missed) this proves bugger all. The logic that once somebody got a prediction on obsolescence of manned aircraft wrong that another prediction of their demise must therefore be wrong is pretty shaky.

The prediction in 1957 that manned aircraft were obsolete was right, they were very soon obsoleted in "total war". The study failed to predict that people would want to conduct operations that fell far short of "total war". Today the prediction is that UCAVs will soon be manifestly superior to manned aircraft in every way, this is a technical prediction rather than a sociological one and as such far more reliable.

If we look at the developments in combat aircraft technology we are already seeing the following: AESA radars (potentially with greater fields of view) 360 degree (UV, IR, VS) multi spectral sensors (JSF will have one) and networked capabilities.

The total data rates from these sensors actually overwhelm the ability of a person to look at them all. Combine these with machine vision and the advantage of having a set of two human eyes on the platform is more than offset by the improvements vehicle performance, stealth, operator comfort and ability to send into harms way of removing the pilot from the machine.

On future UCAVs the operator will probably view the machine from a "gods eye view" interface with all of the identified vehicles and targets presented in 3d around it. The operator will be able to look at anything the machine (and any other vehicles in the area) can see and order the machine around in plain English (attack, escort, observe designated target).

Edited by Talksteer on Saturday 21st November 17:02