Train fare dodging
Discussion
A month or so ago I was travelling from my local station to Staines (For Thorpe Park, I wouldn't go there willingly). The ticket machine wasn't working at my local station, so like a good person (that's been dicked for £20 before on Southwest Trains) I went to find the guard. Couldn't find him, and this particular train stopped for 10min at a station. Promptly found him, and *he* didn't have a ticket machine either. Told me to go to the ticket window in the station and buy a ticket. So I did - from where I was to Staines. Result? £10 fare that cost me £2.50.
For all the bible bashing god botheres that would pay twice the ammount to the TOC if they could - I take the train to work every day so it's good to get one over on them occasionally, especially when it's down to their ignorance and lack of suitable equipment.
I used to have to take a train to somewhere where I could claim an allowance for being there as well as for the rail ticket. Said location was out in the middle of nowhere, one train an hour and not seeing a guard was the norm rather than the exception. Some of the new arrivals cottoned onto this and promptly looked rather smug when they didn't have to pay for a ticket. It was then pointed out that without a ticket they couldn't proove that they had arrived on location and thus weren't entitled to the subsidence - and in any case the ticket could be claimed back so you were never out of pocket!
For all the bible bashing god botheres that would pay twice the ammount to the TOC if they could - I take the train to work every day so it's good to get one over on them occasionally, especially when it's down to their ignorance and lack of suitable equipment.
I used to have to take a train to somewhere where I could claim an allowance for being there as well as for the rail ticket. Said location was out in the middle of nowhere, one train an hour and not seeing a guard was the norm rather than the exception. Some of the new arrivals cottoned onto this and promptly looked rather smug when they didn't have to pay for a ticket. It was then pointed out that without a ticket they couldn't proove that they had arrived on location and thus weren't entitled to the subsidence - and in any case the ticket could be claimed back so you were never out of pocket!
Deva Link said:
F i F said:
What I never noticed was that some days, perhaps every day who knows, they were giving me a day return, it was exactly double the price of a single. Ask for a return get two tickets, pay double the price of a single, seemed OK to me.
Something wrong there - one of the bizzare pricing things is that day return is usually cheaper than a single.
Agree today acc nationalrail.co.uk anytime single is £3.80 and a return is £5.40.
It just brassed me off that the bloke was arguing about a quid, or 50p that I'd already paid.
But then nowadays so many business models rely on fines as a major and relied upon part of the revenue stream. I give you, TfL congestion charging and almost every council with decriminalised parking enforcement.
Deva Link said:
F i F said:
What I never noticed was that some days, perhaps every day who knows, they were giving me a day return, it was exactly double the price of a single. Ask for a return get two tickets, pay double the price of a single, seemed OK to me.
Something wrong there - one of the bizzare pricing things is that day return is usually cheaper than a single.H_Kan said:
Mojooo said:
Been o nthe train recently and came across 2 contrasting situations
1) Guy finds a man who 'forgot' to buy a ticket and doesn;t have any money on him - basically smelt like a tramp and the train guy knew he wasn't going to get any money off him so just carted him off the train at the next station.
2) Woman forgot her Young Person Rail card (but had an otherwise valid ticket (i.e it was only invalid because she didn;t have her YPRC, but invalid non the less). The train guy basically gave her the choice of buying another ticket then and there or facing a £120 foine. Due to the girl crying and the guy being busy he eventually gave her a chance to find the money from somewhere (she couldnt - because she had left her purse somewhere along with her YPRC) - anyway he eventually invalidated her ticket so when she got on her connecting train she would have to buy a new ticket from somewhere or get the peopel at the station to allow her to travel onwards for free.
ANYWAY
My question is what if you were somewhat a mix of the 2 - a respectable looking person who refused to pay on purpose?
i.e ticket man catches you, but you say so what I am not paying or giving any details.
I am guessing its a criminal offence to fare dodge (theft?0 so he would try to get you arrested, but can he atcually restrain you?
I had the same situation with my YPRC when I was coming down from Liverpool to London.1) Guy finds a man who 'forgot' to buy a ticket and doesn;t have any money on him - basically smelt like a tramp and the train guy knew he wasn't going to get any money off him so just carted him off the train at the next station.
2) Woman forgot her Young Person Rail card (but had an otherwise valid ticket (i.e it was only invalid because she didn;t have her YPRC, but invalid non the less). The train guy basically gave her the choice of buying another ticket then and there or facing a £120 foine. Due to the girl crying and the guy being busy he eventually gave her a chance to find the money from somewhere (she couldnt - because she had left her purse somewhere along with her YPRC) - anyway he eventually invalidated her ticket so when she got on her connecting train she would have to buy a new ticket from somewhere or get the peopel at the station to allow her to travel onwards for free.
ANYWAY
My question is what if you were somewhat a mix of the 2 - a respectable looking person who refused to pay on purpose?
i.e ticket man catches you, but you say so what I am not paying or giving any details.
I am guessing its a criminal offence to fare dodge (theft?0 so he would try to get you arrested, but can he atcually restrain you?
I offered to give him my details from my driving license and then come to Liverpool station at a time of his choosing to show him my card. He said this wasn't good enough as I may have lent it to somebody- he didn't seem convinced when I mentioned that I wouldn't lend something I need and that it had my bloody photo on it.
In the end I managed to argue that he was being unreasonable and was let off. What really annoyed me was that he was being an arse just because he could, if I'd been some scummer who would just do a runner then he probably wouldn't have done anything.
An entirely fair and reasonable scheme. Now why can't we do this?
HereBeMonsters said:
Deva Link said:
F i F said:
What I never noticed was that some days, perhaps every day who knows, they were giving me a day return, it was exactly double the price of a single. Ask for a return get two tickets, pay double the price of a single, seemed OK to me.
Something wrong there - one of the bizzare pricing things is that day return is usually cheaper than a single.That was pre-privatisation though. Nowadays there would be at least three operating companies to choose from.
Just for a laugh
I've been sold a return before for travel "about 5 o'clock". Come time to get the train i get on it and then get told by an inspector that my ticket isn't valid at peak hours- around 5 o'clock. Arguement ensues with me ending up paying for a whole new ticket. When idiot has gone some of the other customers say what a litle hitler etc. Anyway i won in the end- a company was payying for my original ticket, i then wrote and complained, didn't hear anything for about a month and then moved house so wrote to tell them of my new address. They then refunded me twice 
On our line the Conductor will always sell you a ticket without fining you. In additon as the train pulls in to London Bridge they often make an announcement that if you need to buy a ticket thy will be standing by Carriage Number x so you can get one. Irritatingly they can sell most tickets but not season tickets for longer than a week.
So if you need one of those and the ticket office is closed or stupidly busy you have to buy a single from the Conductor, and then queue at the booth at London Bridge where they will refund it and sell the season ticket. In fact if the ticket office isclosed you don;t even need to buy the single, just the season ticket at London Bridge.
Fairly recently I wanted to renew my monthly ticket and the usual helpful lady that mans the staion was away. Her standin couldn't do monthly tickets so he said I'll sell you a day return, come down tomorrow and get it changed for a monthly. The next morning helpful lady is on duty, she refuns the previous days ticket and issues the monhly but starting that day as she can't backdate it. So one day free travel!
What is strange is that occasionally we have Meteor staff on the train who appear to be ticket inspectors. However they only check those in First Class, never those in Standard.
So if you need one of those and the ticket office is closed or stupidly busy you have to buy a single from the Conductor, and then queue at the booth at London Bridge where they will refund it and sell the season ticket. In fact if the ticket office isclosed you don;t even need to buy the single, just the season ticket at London Bridge.
Fairly recently I wanted to renew my monthly ticket and the usual helpful lady that mans the staion was away. Her standin couldn't do monthly tickets so he said I'll sell you a day return, come down tomorrow and get it changed for a monthly. The next morning helpful lady is on duty, she refuns the previous days ticket and issues the monhly but starting that day as she can't backdate it. So one day free travel!
What is strange is that occasionally we have Meteor staff on the train who appear to be ticket inspectors. However they only check those in First Class, never those in Standard.
I remember a few years ago, we were coming back on a fixed 1st class ticket from Euston. We arrived an hour early and wanted to get on the earlier train (which you can't). We asked at the ticket office and they said no, so we went to the train and asked the ticket collecting lady if she'd let us on. She said yes.
As she came round collecting tickets, the man over the isle had got the earlier train too, but hadn't asked. He had to pay extra. She just winked at us as she checked our tickets
If you don't ask, you don't get!
As she came round collecting tickets, the man over the isle had got the earlier train too, but hadn't asked. He had to pay extra. She just winked at us as she checked our tickets
If you don't ask, you don't get!
NismoGT said:
Yes it is a criminal offence to dodge a train fair. The train operators are far to leniant in my opinion.
Londdon Midland is my local operator. They have placed ticket machines on every station they operate at so there is no excuse to try and dodge a fair.
I'd be much happier if they spent their money working out how to run a train service even half as well as Silverlink used to. LM are a completely useless bunch of wastrels. All they have done is introduce trains that are more uncomfortable than the 321s and painted the lampposts black. Londdon Midland is my local operator. They have placed ticket machines on every station they operate at so there is no excuse to try and dodge a fair.
FPC said:
In France if you forget your railcard then the guard will just charge you the differece between your paid fare and a standard fare. You can then go to any station and get a refund of that surcharge, showing the date of validity of your railcard.
An entirely fair and reasonable scheme. Now why can't we do this?
Because in the UK we've fallen into a culture of enforcement and fines, and people being guilty until proven innocent. Perhaps it's because 'The System' finds it easier to prosecute normal folk who may have forgotten something, rather than criminals, who can get rude and give false addresses. And of course 'The System' doesn't use human judgement, it's all in a computer and operated by jobsworths.An entirely fair and reasonable scheme. Now why can't we do this?
It may all be a by-product of increasing population density.
Chrisgr31 said:
On our line the Conductor will always sell you a ticket without fining you.
This is what my local train guy does. (ash to guildford) We used to have a bit to drink at a mates house and get the train to town. Never used to get a ticket and just wait for the guy to come and he would alwyas sell us a ticket. I remember a story about one of my friends. He got on the train and tried to get a ticket from the guy.
He said he should have got a ticket at the machine (Even though he was running for the train) and that he would have to pay a £20 fine.
After trying for a few minutes to get the conductor to accept the £1.80 for a ticket the conversation went from "Can I buy a ticket" to "You're going to let me travel for free or you'll be looking at your own colon."
I found it amusing.
He traveled for free in the end.
He said he should have got a ticket at the machine (Even though he was running for the train) and that he would have to pay a £20 fine.
After trying for a few minutes to get the conductor to accept the £1.80 for a ticket the conversation went from "Can I buy a ticket" to "You're going to let me travel for free or you'll be looking at your own colon."
I found it amusing.
He traveled for free in the end.
GrahamG said:
Well done guys - the two posts above explain more clearly than anyone else so far why some ticket inspectors behave the way they do
Totally agree. Pothole, what makes you think you deserve to travel for free whilst the rest of us subsidise you?Similarly Frankeh, your mate should have just simply refused to pay more than the fare rather then physically threaten the guy.
Doing crap like this means that the inspectors are that bit more desensitised to listening to reason from the reasonable majority who make a mistake every now and then.
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